Bills @ Bengals postgame thread

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Everyone’s giving the defense credit here. The defense was on skates from the start. Every 3rd down guys were wide open. Anything they wanted they had. I’m not giving them any credit here. The Bengals started playing with their food and kept us in it. There was zero resistance by this defense all night in big spots. I’m not going to just act Like this defense isn’t a problem.

 

They held the Bengals to 3 points in the second half.  They adjusted and kept us in the game when they are very much a mash unit.

Now add Hyde and Bernard to the injury list when we are already missing key contributors.  This was a Joe Burrow lead offense that beat down SF healthy defense the week prior.

 

Our offense is the reason why we aren't winning.

[Heels20X6]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They held the Bengals to 3 points in the second half.  They adjusted and kept us in the game when they are very much a mash unit.

Now add Hyde and Bernard to the injury list when we are already missing key contributors.  This was a Joe Burrow lead offense that beat down SF healthy defense the week prior.

 

Our offense is the reason why we aren't winning.

 

I'd say it's less about the Bills defence keeping them to 3 points and more the Bengals being incapable of taking advantage of the banged up Bills D.  Remember, Mac Jones carved this team up.

 

The Bengals played a very "Billsy" game in that they looked dominant and should have run away with the game, but couldn't close it out and let the Bills hang around.

[Casey D]

31 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

If this team is to do anything with Josh Allen as their QB they need to address the O line.    If there was any semblance of run game and better pass blocking Josh is lights out.   He is more gifted than all the other QBs but he’s exactly the same as them with pressure…every QB makes mistakes with constant pressure.    
 

The O line is what needs addressing first above ALL else.  

They did address it with McGovern and Torrence.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Heels20X6 said:

 

I'd say it's less about the Bills defence keeping them to 3 points and more the Bengals being incapable of taking advantage of the banged up Bills D.  Remember, Mac Jones carved this team up.

 

The Bengals played a very "Billsy" game in that they looked dominant and should have run away with the game, but couldn't close it out and let the Bills hang around.

 

The defense has had one bad game all year and that was against the Pats.  When you hold the Bengals to 1 TD on their last 7 drives, the defense gets credit.  

 

The offense should be the one stepping up with the injuries we have on defense but it's the opposite.

 

We are averaging 20 ppg in the last 5 games and 3 of those defenses weren't good.  We are a bottom 10 offense in the NFL in the last 5 games.

[Dillenger4]

21 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Everyone’s giving the defense credit here. The defense was on skates from the start. Every 3rd down guys were wide open. Anything they wanted they had. I’m not giving them any credit here. The Bengals started playing with their food and kept us in it. There was zero resistance by this defense all night in big spots. I’m not going to just act Like this defense isn’t a problem.

I agree - but let's keep in mind we are without Milano, Jones, Bernard was out in first Q last night, Tre White (although hes a wimp). It's a massive hit to our D. Our depth sucks and it shows.

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

I agree - but let's keep in mind we are without Milano, Jones, Bernard was out in first Q last night, Tre White (although hes a wimp). It's a massive hit to our D. Our depth sucks and it shows.

This falls on Beane and the FO.  But why does our depth suck?

 

Is the payroll "top heavy" which results in not being able to pay for better depth players?

Is it bad drafting, picking the wrong players, reaching for need?

Is it bad free agent acquisitions, targeting the wrong players?

Is it over-paying by re-signing players on the roster where few to any of them are outperforming their pay level?

Is it just the injuries and the way it goes with the salary cap system in the NFL when you have a lot of key players hurt?

All the above and this roster is just poorly constructed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

8 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

I agree - but let's keep in mind we are without Milano, Jones, Bernard was out in first Q last night, Tre White (although hes a wimp). It's a massive hit to our D. Our depth sucks and it shows.

I get it and that sucks but this team just matched all over us all 3x we saw them and those guys were out there for other games. This coach just won’t come off this zone and Burrow is going to shred the ***** out of it every time.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

13 minutes ago, Casey D said:

They did address it with McGovern and Torrence.  

You feel that was enough?   The line isn’t giving up pressure with 4 rushing or worse less?   You feel they are able to run the ball when needed?

[Dillenger4]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

You feel that was enough?   The line isn’t giving up pressure with 4 rushing or worse less?   You feel they are able to run the ball when needed?

yep.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

You won’t win many games where you have 2+ turnovers and 10 points through 3 quarters.

 

Once again, this is on the offense. 

[pocoboy]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

This falls on Beane and the FO.  But why does our depth suck?

 

Is the payroll "top heavy" which results in not being able to pay for better depth players?

Is it bad drafting, picking the wrong players, reaching for need?

Is it bad free agent acquisitions, targeting the wrong players?

Is it over-paying by re-signing players on the roster where few to any of them are outperforming their pay level?

Is it just the injuries and the way it goes with the salary cap system in the NFL when you have a lot of key players hurt?

All the above and this roster is just poorly constructed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Things change in a heartbeat in football. The sport is unforgiving, both physically and mentally. You blow off a draft or two because you think you're set, and you'll end up where Beane was buying up aging free agents and watching their careers dissipate seemingly immediately. Miller and Floyd are basically eating roster spots at the moment. Hyde and Poyer are on the backside of their careers. You could have a succession plan, but you've pissed away draft picks like Elam and all the ones you've traded to move up for players that likely would have been there at the original pick.

 

I think most GM's are that way. Beane just bit it when we found out McDermott had no clue on strategy in < 15 seconds, and ever since we've been weak-spined and outphysical'ed by the teams that can.

[Blackbeard]

The Von signing was our "going all in".  At least the major bit of it.

 

It didn't pan out and now we're seeing the repercussions.  I seriously doubt we make playoffs, and if we do, it's besting Miami for the AFCE.  They have a pretty cake schedule IMO.

 

We need to rebuild.  It will take 3-4 years.  THEN, we'll have a second window with Allen to win it.  If not, we will likely be back to the drought era days.

 

13 seconds was the window.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Things change in a heartbeat in football. The sport is unforgiving, both physically and mentally. You blow off a draft or two because you think you're set, and you'll end up where Beane was buying up aging free agents and watching their careers dissipate seemingly immediately. Miller and Floyd are basically eating roster spots at the moment. Hyde and Poyer are on the backside of their careers. You could have a succession plan, but you've pissed away draft picks like Elam and all the ones you've traded to move up for players that likely would have been there at the original pick.

 

I think most GM's are that way. Beane just bit it when we found out McDermott had no clue on strategy in < 15 seconds, and ever since we've been weak-spined and outphysical'ed by the teams that can.

Unfortunately this is looking more and more like it's true.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

You won’t win many games where you have 2+ turnovers and 10 points through 3 quarters.

 

Once again, this is on the offense. 

I could buy this argument if the Bills had emphasized their offense to the same extent that the other lead contenders have.  But the reality is that they have not. 

 

I'm not sure why some Bills fans expect the offense to be incredibly productive game after game when besides Allen & Diggs (and maybe soon Kincaid) the unit is made up of average and below average talent?  Throw in that the offensive coaching is not exactly world beating and IMO you're blaming an offense that is not built to dominate and win games.  That honor goes to the defense which for a number of reasons including bad FA signings, bad draft picks, poor coaching and injuries hasn't come close to living up to what needs to do.

 

It's water under the bridge but in 2019 the Bills needed to go the route that the Bengal's, Eagles, Dolphins, Cowboys, 49's and Chiefs have gone.  They didn't and now because Allen is so often brilliant and makes us think that the offense is better then it really is, we put the responsibility and blame on that unit for coming up short. I just don't buy it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

34 minutes ago, Casey D said:

They did address it with McGovern and Torrence.  

Who have both played poorly.

Torrence certainly has potential. McGovern just wasn't very good before we got him, and he's not very good now. Add to that the perpetual "project" guy in Spencer Brown, and you still have a poor offensive line.

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

The Von signing was our "going all in".  At least the major bit of it.

 

It didn't pan out and now we're seeing the repercussions.  I seriously doubt we make playoffs, and if we do, it's besting Miami for the AFCE.  They have a pretty cake schedule IMO.

 

We need to rebuild.  It will take 3-4 years.  THEN, we'll have a second window with Allen to win it.  If not, we will likely be back to the drought era days.

 

13 seconds was the window.

THIS! N

Nobody predicted it but the Von Miller signing is proving to be a HUGE mistake for so many reasons. 

[JohnnyBuffalo]

53 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Only push back I have on this is that was the third or fourth time Kincaid went airborne like that to pick up extra yardage. Agreed though, a savy vet picked up on a rookie leaving himself vulnerable to a fumble. 

That was a heck of timed punch out!    Yeah I was angry with Kincaid there.   Have to have big picture awareness and have both arms over that ball.  5 extra yards there isn’t enough to risk injury and possession!

 

Tough way to be reminded of both.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I could buy this argument if the Bills had emphasized their offense to the same extent that the other lead contenders have.  But the reality is that they have not. 

 

I'm not sure why some Bills fans expect the offense to be incredibly productive game after game when besides Allen & Diggs (and maybe soon Kincaid) the unit is made up of average and below average talent?  Throw in that the offensive coaching is not exactly world beating and IMO you're blaming an offense that is not built to dominate and win games.  That honor goes to the defense which for a number of reasons including bad FA signings, bad draft picks, poor coaching and injuries hasn't come close to living up to what needs to do.

 

It's water under the bridge but in 2019 the Bills needed to go the route that the Bengal's, Eagles, Dolphins, Cowboys, 49's and Chiefs have gone.  They didn't and now because Allen is so often brilliant and makes us think that the offense is better then it really is, we put the responsibility and blame on that unit for coming up short. I just don't buy it.

Bills fans expect an offense with Allen, Diggs, and a first round pass catcher to be productive… and they should. For the last 4 games they have not scored more than 10 points in the first 3/4 of the game. That’s bad for any offense, and especially for one with a top 5 QB and without any significant injuries.
 

This defense, already decimated by injuries, is constantly on the field. Time of possession is wildly in opponents’

favor. Coach is doing no favors blitzing guys like Burrow when success has mostly been had against him by rushing three. But they held a top offense last night to an amount of points our offense should be able to match or best. Including basically shutting them down second half. 

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

You feel that was enough?   The line isn’t giving up pressure with 4 rushing or worse less?   You feel they are able to run the ball when needed?

I had hope for both these guys but it's clear that they were halfway measures with a bit of wishing & hoping thrown in.  And this is a cavalier way to treat the 2nd most important offensive unit after QB.  But the Bills brain trust has been trying to build an O line based on hopes & wishes, and failing at it, for years.  

 

Over time I do believe that Torrence will be a solid guard.  And for sure he's an upgrade over Safold.  But then again by most measures Safold was the worst starting guard in the NFL last season.

 

How many 1st round picks or high profile O line signings have the Bills made since 2019?  How does this compare with the other offensive minded teams? 

 

 

[Casey D]

31 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

You feel that was enough?   The line isn’t giving up pressure with 4 rushing or worse less?   You feel they are able to run the ball when needed?

I did, but I agree that the performance, especially running the ball, leaves a lot to be desired.  OLs everywhere are not great however, and it is hard to have All-Pros at every position.  I think you and I agree, it's just that they thought they had fixed it but they have not.

11 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Who have both played poorly.

Torrence certainly has potential. McGovern just wasn't very good before we got him, and he's not very good now. Add to that the perpetual "project" guy in Spencer Brown, and you still have a poor offensive line.

Well they paid McGovern like he was good, and most reviews I saw of his play for Dallas were good.  The line seemed fine early on, but has regressed, like most of the team.