Washington v USC: Battle for the First Overall Pick

[mannc]

I know we’re not supposed to talk CFB here but it’s Saturday night before a huge Bills game and this is a preview of guys who are going to be huge players in the draft in a few months.  
 

Unreal game, with both guys delivering as promised, and more.  Penix throws a beautiful ball and seems to me to be the better overall prospect, but Willams’s running ability is going to translate really well at the next level.  Will be great to see both of them play in the league next year…

Edited November 5, 2023 by mannc

[buffblue]

Keep these guys out of the AFC

[mannc]

35 minutes ago, buffblue said:

Keep these guys out of the AFC

Raiders will get one of them…

[Buffalo716]

Penix isn't going top 5. Caleb is guaranteed top 5

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Penix isn't going top 5. Caleb is guaranteed top 5

 

 

 

 

It would be pretty stunning if he doesn’t go first overall 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It would be pretty stunning if he doesn’t go first overall 

I think he's almost guaranteed 1st

[NeverOutNick]

Caleb plays so wreckless. All the talent in the world but him and #19 cost the Trojans a W tonight. Williams needs a good offensive minded HC to get the most out of him or else he’s going to be a mess in the NFL. Can’t live on pure talent and make bone headed decisions like running into the pass rush over and over. Penix really impressed me. I knew he was super accurate in the pocket and throws a beautiful ball but against Oregon he was garbage scrambling out and couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn BUT wow did he show up on a couple throws outside the pocket tonight, especially the TD to the TE. Penix will be a top 10 pick in this draft and I also think the headiness and grittiness of Bo Nix gets him taken top 15 too. He’s a plug and play QB right now and honestly think he could be the best pro. I love this draft class and even though Williams will be the #1 pick and has all the potential in the world I love the 3 QBs behind him more (Maye, Penix and Nix)…hope they all go to the NFC. We don’t need any more franchise QBs in the AFC

[Buffalo716]

Just now, NeverOutNick said:

Caleb plays so wreckless. All the talent in the world but him and #19 cost the Trojans a W tonight. Williams needs a good offensive minded HC to get the most out of him or else he’s going to be a mess in the NFL. Can’t live on pure talent and make bone headed decisions like running into the pass rush over and over. Penix really impressed me. I knew he was super accurate in the pocket and throws a beautiful ball but against Oregon he was garbage scrambling out and couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn BUT wow did he show up on a couple throws outside the pocket tonight, especially the TD to the TE. Penix will be a top 10 pick in this draft and I also think the headiness and grittiness of Bo Nix gets him taken top 15 too. He’s a plug and play QB right now and honestly think he could be the best pro. I love this draft class and even though Williams will be the #1 pick and has all the potential in the world I love the 3 QBs behind him more (Maye, Penix and Nix)…hope they all go to the NFC. We don’t need any more franchise QBs in the AFC

Yea a defense that gave up 50 and a QB who was 77% completion with 4 total TDs and they lost because of him lol

 

Caleb is the most talented QB in the country and USC letting up 40 a game is letting him down 

[NeverOutNick]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Yea a defense that gave up 50 and a QB who was 77% completion with 4 total TDs and they lost because of him lol

 

Caleb is the most talented QB in the country and USC letting up 40 a game is letting him down 

Maybe you didn’t watch the game it’s ok to be a stat junkie and not actually see how his fumble in the first half led to a Washington TD and how he took his team out of FG position taking a 15 yard sack in the 4th. We all knew this game was going to be over 80 points total because neither team has a defense but go ahead make your one liner comments because ha ha they sound funny…caleb is wreckless and that won’t win consistently in the NFL. Mahomes needed Andy Reid and Williams needs his version as well or he’s going to be a more talented Fields  2.0 in the NFL

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Maybe you didn’t watch the game it’s ok to be a stat junkie and not actually see how his fumble in the first half led to a Washington TD and how he took his team out of FG position taking a 15 yard sack in the 4th. We all knew this game was going to be over 80 points total because neither team has a defense but go ahead make your one liner comments because ha ha they sound funny…caleb is wreckless and that won’t win consistently in the NFL. Mahomes needed Andy Reid and Williams needs his version as well or he’s going to be a more talented Fields  2.0 in the NFL

The thing that bothers me about Williams is that it takes him way too long to get rid of the ball.  (During the game tonight, they said his time to throw is the highest in the country.). I don’t know if that means he’s a slow processor, or something else, but it will be a problem in the NFL if it continues.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Maybe you didn’t watch the game it’s ok to be a stat junkie and not actually see how his fumble in the first half led to a Washington TD and how he took his team out of FG position taking a 15 yard sack in the 4th. We all knew this game was going to be over 80 points total because neither team has a defense but go ahead make your one liner comments because ha ha they sound funny…caleb is wreckless and that won’t win consistently in the NFL. Mahomes needed Andy Reid and Williams needs his version as well or he’s going to be a more talented Fields  2.0 in the NFL

Listen I'm not saying he's perfect

 

But any quarterback that needs to score 45 a game has too much pressure on him

 

He's on a severely overrated USC team.. carrying them... Their defense has been giving up over 40 a game for close to a season and a half now

 

If he doesn't play they lose 50 to 10... Caleb Williams is USC

 

Any other top five team would have a national championship if he was their quarterback

1 minute ago, mannc said:

The thing that bothers me about Williams is that it takes him way too long to get rid of the ball.  (During the game tonight, they said his time to throw is the highest in the country.). I don’t know if that means he’s a slow processor, or something else, but it will be a problem in the NFL if it continues.

Teams drop seven and eight and play quarters... His defense gives up 45 game

 

So they want to make him play 15 play drives..

 

Yes he's giving up four yard completion to push the ball down the field because he has to score 50.... You don't have enough time to score 50 dinking and Dunking

 

This is a 2-year theme of USC giving up 40 plus a game... No quarterback in the world can sustain that... And yes he is holding onto the ball for bigger plays because he cannot go on 15 play drives

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[mannc]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Penix isn't going top 5. Caleb is guaranteed top 5

 

 

 

 

Way too early to say.  I agree that Williams is top five but beyond that, who knows?

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Listen I'm not saying he's perfect

 

But any quarterback that needs to score 45 a game has too much pressure on him

 

He's on a severely overrated USC team.. carrying them... Their defense has been giving up over 40 a game for close to a season and a half now

 

If he doesn't play they lose 50 to 10... Caleb Williams is USC

 

Any other top five team would have a national championship if he was their quarterback

Teams drop seven and eight and play quarters... His defense gives up 45 game

 

So they want to make him play 15 play drives..

 

Yes he's giving up four yard completion to push the ball down the field because he has to score 50.... You don't have enough time to score 50 dinking and Dunking

 

This is a 2-year theme of USC giving up 40 plus a game... No quarterback in the world can sustain that... And yes he is holding onto the ball for bigger plays because he cannot go on 15 play drives

Except he was doing the same thing against Cal and Arizona…

[NeverOutNick]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Listen I'm not saying he's perfect

 

But any quarterback that needs to score 45 a game has too much pressure on him

 

He's on a severely overrated USC team.. carrying them

 

If he doesn't play they lose 50 to 10... Caleb Williams is USC

 

Any other top five team would have a national championship if he was their quarterback

I don’t disagree with that but you put any of these 4 QBs (willams, Maye, Penix or Nix) on Georgia or Michigan and yes I agree they win the national championship. He is USC (sorry for the double negative) but that doesn’t mean he isn’t the reason they lost a game regardless of how absolutely dreadful USCs run defense is. They would’ve won that game imo if it weren’t for Williams’ fumble that turned into a Washington TD, stupid sack when they were in FG position and #19 dropping a for sure TD early and the stupid holding on another TD that was called back. 

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

Way too early to say.  I agree that Williams is top five but beyond that, who knows?

You judge quarterbacks by a body of work not necessarily a 6-game stretch... Most quarterbacks unless your first year starter has a lot of film to go on

 

Josh Allen was raved about as a number one overall pick... His first year at Wyoming.. whether a 21 year old kid develops is entirely up to him and his future coaching

 

But scouts can see a 21-year-old kid with tons of tools

 

 

Caleb and Drake May in my opinion are clearly the top two.. and both have more eligibility

 

Then you will get guys like nix and penix but I would be nervous to take them in the top 5... I don't know what penix elite trait is ... He is just very steady 

8 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I don’t disagree with that but you put any of these 4 QBs (willams, Maye, Penix or Nix) on Georgia or Michigan and yes I agree they win the national championship. He is USC (sorry for the double negative) but that doesn’t mean he isn’t the reason they lost a game regardless of how absolutely dreadful USCs run defense is. They would’ve won that game imo if it weren’t for Williams’ fumble that turned into a Washington TD, stupid sack when they were in FG position and #19 dropping a for sure TD early and the stupid holding on another TD that was called back. 

Williams either plays or they're playing their back up their entire game

 

Their backup is nothing close to Caleb... So the game wouldn't be close

 

Josh Allen makes plenty of mistakes too .. and plenty of plays

 

Any quarterback that needs to play a perfect game to win is at a severe disadvantage... Other top teams their defense holds teams to under 25

 

Caleb wakes up knowing he has to score 45 to win..  there's not one player with more pressure in college football than him

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

You judge quarterbacks by a body of work not necessarily a 6-game stretch... Most quarterbacks unless your first year starter has a lot of film to go on

 

Josh Allen was raved about as a number one overall pick... His first year at Wyoming.. whether a 21 year old kid develops is entirely up to him and his future coaching

 

But scouts can see a 21-year-old kid with tons of tools

 

 

Caleb and Drake May in my opinion are clearly the top two.. and both have more eligibility

 

Then you will get guys like nix and penix but I would be nervous to take them in the top 5... I don't know what penix elite trait is ... He is just very steady 

Williams either plays or they're playing their back up their entire game

 

Their backup is nothing close to Caleb... So the game wouldn't be close

 

Josh Allen makes plenty of mistakes too .. and plenty of plays

 

Any quarterback that needs to play a perfect game to win is at a severe disadvantage... Other top teams their defense holds teams to under 25

 

Caleb wakes up knowing he has to score 45 to win..  there's not one player with more pressure in college football than him

 

I think Penix is a much better prospect than Nix.  Nix looks like an NFL backup to me, a more mobile Mac Jones.  Penix has good size, a great arm, and tremendous accuracy. He looks like a prototype NFL pocket passer.  Curious who else you like from this class…best class since….?

[chongli]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Raiders will get one of them…

 

So might New England.

[NeverOutNick]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

You judge quarterbacks by a body of work not necessarily a 6-game stretch... Most quarterbacks unless your first year starter has a lot of film to go on

 

Josh Allen was raved about as a number one overall pick... His first year at Wyoming.. whether a 21 year old kid develops is entirely up to him and his future coaching

 

But scouts can see a 21-year-old kid with tons of tools

 

 

Caleb and Drake May in my opinion are clearly the top two.. and both have more eligibility

 

Then you will get guys like nix and penix but I would be nervous to take them in the top 5... I don't know what penix elite trait is ... He is just very steady 

A lot of the media talking heads prop up the obvious guys because yes you’re right WIlliams is a unicorn. He’s not Lamar Jackson but he’s definitely a more accurate and stronger armed version of Fields. I hope he’s willing to take coaching because he could be special if somehow the giants got him and Daboll cleaned up his rough edges like he did for Josh.

 

Maye was my favorite prospect going into this year. But man this year he’s been making some dumb decisions too. It reminds me of Justin Herbert’s last year at Oregon. Herberts junior year he was unbelievable but then Maye and Herbert’s final year in college left you wondering what’s going on with all these bad decisions. I think Maye and Penix throw the prettiest balls in this class. So much accuracy on the deep balls, just great placement where the ball is just so easy for the receiver to catch. 
 

Penix inside the pocket is the best QB in this class. You give him an Eagles O line and let him sit and scan the field and he will tear the NFL apart but he’s inconsistent with pressure. He’s not scared to take a hit but when he scrambles it’s not always pretty. I was very encouraged tonight though. 
 

Nix is a gamer. Dude lives to put the team on his back and is electric making throws on the run. Is he as athletic as Williams or does he throw a deep ball as pretty as Maye or as accurate in the pocket as Penix…no. But man he just gets the job done and even though he’s not elite in every category, he has the least amount of flaws in his game and wow has he grown into a great prospect since his sporadic play early on at Auburn. I really like Nix. He’s a lesser version of Joe Burrow to me. 
 

realistic and good spots for each QB:

 

Williams - Daboll and NYG (he did it with Josh he can do it with Williams)

 

Maye - GB and Matt Lafleur (He’d thrive in GB with that culture and fan base behind him with a good Offensive HC)

 

Penix - Vikings and O’Connell (Really good O line, great weapons and creative HC. It’s like UW of the Midwest lol)

 

Nix - Raiders and Jim Harbaugh (hate to do it to my boy but if anyone is going tough it up and knock the chiefs around I see Jim Harbaugh and Nix being special together…I’d rather see him go to the NFC but this is the next best choice. Screw the chiefs lol)

[chongli]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Penix isn't going top 5. Caleb is guaranteed top 5

 

 

 

 

 

This mock has Penix going at 5 to Arizona (and McCarthy at 4 to Minnesota):

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/7-round-2024-nfl-mock-draft-week-7-2023/

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think Penix is a much better prospect than Nix.  Nix looks like an NFL backup to me, a more mobile Mac Jones.  Penix has good size, a great arm, and tremendous accuracy. He looks like a prototype NFL pocket passer.  Curious who else you like from this class…best class since….?

Top to bottom certainly the best class I can remember in the last 10-15 years if all the underclassmen declare ... People are forgetting a guy like Quinn ewers

 

Who forgoed his SR year of HS to go to college ... Number one overall recruit as a 17-year-old kid

 

When the combine comes around he's going to have a prettier ball then 99% 

 

Penix will be 24 in the NFL next year opening day... Caleb will be 22 ... Ewers 21

 

Ewers literally has so much potential... The way he can go from velocity to touch... His athleticism... He has all the tools and you won't have to get him top 5... Gotta bulk up tho ... But don't be surprised when a team makes a play for him 

8 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

This mock has Penix going at 5 to Arizona (and McCarthy at 4 to Minnesota):

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/7-round-2024-nfl-mock-draft-week-7-2023/

I can't see McCarthy in the top five either

 

Plenty of players getting mocked in the first round

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buffalo716

[NeverOutNick]

1 minute ago, chongli said:

 

This mock has Penix going at 5 to Arizona (and McCarthy at 4 to Minnesota):

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/7-round-2024-nfl-mock-draft-week-7-2023/

McCarthy is the guy I feel like needs the most time to grow. Hope he stays another year but with the crap going on at Michigan he may have to leave. Hope he transfers to another school and keeps growing as a QB…kid is talented but also has a lot of head scratching throws. He’s the Zach Wilson of this class for me. He’s gotten better each year at Michigan but I don’t think he’s ready yet to be an NFL QB. Stay one more year clean up the mistakes, learn to scan quicker in the pocket and he’ll be the the #1 pick in 2025