Shotgun at the 1 Yard Line

[stevestojan]

16 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's why we got Lenny. Frickin' battering ram.

Also correct. Point being, whether it’s Josh or Lenny, pound the ***** ball four times. 
 

I’m a math guy. I trust statistics. 
 

In this particular case, I just can’t though. No part of me ever wants to see shotgun from the 1 yard line. Ever. If Dorsey does it again may he be cursed with wet socks and an itch on the bottom of his foot that he can’t reach in perpetuity. 

[Einstein]

33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

it’s pretty clear IMHO that it was a draw 

 

A true draw has hesitation. There was none on this play. I would have to watch it again, but from memory (it was 8 days ago) I think it was duo.

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A true draw has hesitation. There was none on this play. I would have to watch it again, but from memory (it was 8 days ago) I think it was duo.

That's called a delayed draw.  An actual draw doesn’t always have hesitation.  

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

That's called a delayed draw.  An actual draw doesn’t always have hesitation.  

 

All draws have hesitation. Without any hesitation, there is no disguise as a pass play. Simply being in shotgun is not a disguise as a pass play. 

 

Example: Notice the slight hesitation/head look of the QB. He quickly looks left prior to handing off. Notice the linemen too.

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Einstein

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I agree with your entire post except for this part. I highly doubt it had an effect on the final score. 
 

The Bills ended up getting the ball back around the 30 yard line after the Bucs were held inside their own goal line and had to punt and the Bills would get a TD on their next possession.

 

We could easily say had the Bills taken eve a FG there and then kicked off, our D holds the O to a 3 and out and then we get the ball back and score on the next possession anyways.

 

We left points on the board that game based on dumb playcalling in a crucial scoring situation where the points are all but guaranteed as long as you dont get too cute.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

the only issue I have is when it is from the half yard line

 

Fully agree, other parts of the field doesn't bother me half as much. Even then though it's how often it's called that's still frustrating, but inside the 1 yard line makes me lose my *****

 

 

[HoofHearted]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No disrespect to anyone, but he is incorrect if he is saying the 3rd and goal run on the 1 yard line was a dart against the Bucs.  

 

A draw is a run play that is made to look like a pass play, hence why it is run a lot of shotgun.  It is meant to attack the A gap, which is exactly what Murray did and was done right off the snap from shotgun.  The dart is different than the "draw" play and more resembles a power and is where you have the tackle pulling.  Our tackles did not pull on the 3rd down shotgun run and it was a clear draw.  

 

I can not tell you about the week before as I did not go back and look at it, but I am pretty sure it was also a draw, but again, can't confirm without rewatching it which I will try and do later.  

 

I am not saying we don't run a dart in our playbook, but the goal line play against the Bucs was a draw and not a dart, and I don't think the one the week before was either but still need to see it again to confirm.  But honestly, it doesn't matter...dart or draw, it was a terrible play call.  

Never said it was Dart. In fact I’ve said in another thread it was Duo. So, no, it was not draw…

 

Additionally they could have run the same concept from under center and it still wouldn’t have been successful because Gabe got blown up.

Edited November 4, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Never said it was Dart. In fact I’ve said in another thread it was Duo. So, no, it was not draw…

And see, that is why I said I can only go off what Franco was claiming you said in another thread, which was that it was a “Dart” which it definitely wasn’t.  But it appears he was misquoting you by mistake.  

 

And I agree, it could have been a duo and I will go watch it back again and look for the direction of the OL vs the direction Murray went with the ball as the duo the RB typically goes to the opposite side the OL is blocking.  I honestly only went back to look to see if it was a dart as Franco said, and it was clear as day on the snap it wasn’t so left it at that and assumed it was the draw and didn’t look at the OL as much as I looked at where Murray attacked the line.  

Edited November 4, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And see, that is why I said I can only go off what Franco was claiming you said in another thread, which was that it was a “Dart” which it definitely wasn’t.  But it appears he was misquoting you by mistake.  

 

And I agree, it could have been a duo and I will go watch it back again and look for the direction of the OL vs the direction Murray went with the ball as the duo the RB typically goes to the opposite side the OL is blocking.  I only went back to look to see if it was a dart as Franco said and it was clear as day on the snap it wasn’t so left it at that.  

I’ve certainly said in the past that we were running Dart and not Draw in instances we were running Dart. There’s a number of concepts we’re running from Gun and the vast majority of them are not Draw.

 

As far as the shotgun vs. under center debate about the RB hitting it with speed from under center. That’s all well and good if you’re running ISO that hits straight downhill, but we’ve been running a ton of gap scheme that hits off-tackle. It’s timing based - not run downhill as fast as you can.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve certainly said in the past that we were running Dart and not Draw in instances we were running Dart. There’s a number of concepts we’re running from Gun and the vast majority of them are not Draw.

 

As far as the shotgun vs. under center debate about the RB hitting it with speed from under center. That’s all well and good if you’re running ISO that hits straight downhill, but we’ve been running a ton of gap scheme that hits off-tackle. It’s timing based - not run downhill as fast as you can.

I believe you, but as I stated in my reply to Franco who said that you called it a dart was that I have no other frame of reference of what you said as I did not personally read or see any other posts about it by you and all I had to go on was Franco’s accounting of it here.  
 

And I know what you are saying and I agree with you on the shotgun vs under center comparison.  
 

My point in this thread was specifically  on 3rd down inside the one with Josh Allen as your QB, any run out of shotgun is statistically a mistake compared to a QB sneak or tush push as that would have the highest % of success over any shotgun based run play.  And Dorsey called this in back to back weeks in the exact same situation and went 0-2 on those attempts.  And statistically sneaking it with Allen (or tush pushing) would have a higher % of success by a considerable margin.

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

While I agree I also don't like the shotgun snaps from the goal line I do wonder if;  prior to the NE game, G Davis commented that they needed to run more plays the felt more comfortable with.  Josh has stated he prefers being in shotgun.  So do wonder if they are running those plays at Josh's request, that it's not really a Dorsey thing?  If is the case, understand Dorsey could over rule him but do wonder if that could be behind it ?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

All draws have hesitation. Without any hesitation, there is no disguise as a pass play. Simply being in shotgun is not a disguise as a pass play. 

 

Example: Notice the slight hesitation/head look of the QB. He quickly looks left prior to handing off. Notice the linemen too.

 

 

 

You are correct, I misunderstood what you initially referred to, so my apologies on that.   I mistook what you said to be referring to more of longer hesitation where the RB stayed in as if he was gonna pass pro and then taking the ball off that in more of a delay. 

[Chaos]

Unless I missed something, the original post ignores the down situation.  On fourth and and goal from the 1, being in shotgun is different than first and 1.  The main issue I have with being in shot gun on first, second or third down and 1, is that the result can't be simplified to "scored/Didn't scored".   Big difference if you don't score and have a hold on first down, so that it is now first and 11, or the QB is sacked 7 yards deep, or a running back is tackled 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage on a screen, or if the you don't score but advance the ball to the 1/2 yard line on a QB sneak. 

[Alphadawg7]

I will add that I look forward to seeing Fournette taking more of our down and short runs too.  Murray has done a solid job, but I think Fournette has more to offer in these situations

[Mister Defense]

7 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Yes. Shotgun pistol draw to be specific. Never ever want to see that again on the One. I believe This is what Is going to cost Dorsey his job. 

 

Well, yeah, in part, but need to add in the slew of big obvious fundamental mistakes he had made, makes, and will make for as long as he is the OC.

 

I am still holding out for a Thanksgiving miracle--that at least will give the new OC a (slim) chance of overcoming this nonsense.

[Einstein]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I will add that I look forward to seeing Fournette taking more of our down and short runs too. 

 

Simon made a point the other day that Beane has been adding more physicality to the roster and I agree. I would like to see some of this for the Bills: 

 

 

[Ray Stonada]

Now I’m not a professional OC but this is what I’d like to see the Bills try:

 

Line up under center in heavy set, two tight ends (Kincaid and Knox/Morris) and Cook or Fournette at RB. One WR (Diggs).

 

Option A: sneak

Option B: lead or counter

Option 😄 play action pass

 

Also once the defense is set the play you can totally shift the formation and go three wide with Diggs and the two TEs. Then you run it wide or pass and the defense is trying to defend your spread with space eaters. 
 

Or once the defense is set, you bring a tight end (or Gilliam) in motion to the backfield as a fullback for the push play or a straight up power run.

 

Point is, lining up under center with that personnel makes it much tougher to guess what we will do, because it keeps the sneak possibility alive, which the shotgun kills.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

 

 

I thought this was a 'true draw':

[Freddie's Dead]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.  No more shotgun at the 1!!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I have no problem with shotgun run vs under center run on the goal line but a sneak would’ve made a lot more sense than either 

 

I know TB is ‘bad’ so they don’t get a lot of credit for anything but they are the number 1 defense in preventing tds in the red zone by a wiiiiiide margin which I’m not seeing talked about much with regards to the playcalling in that game.  
 

when I see all these bengals game predictions some are assuming cincy is a better defense than tb and they really aren’t 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan