This was a good week for Beane

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I used to say pass rusher was the clear 2nd most important position to QB..........but in the last 6 seasons in particular WR has really closed the gap in terms of importance and a proven indicator of deep playoff advancement.     

 

And having a really good WR2 has proven to be a pretty easy ask.....it's not like only a handful of teams has them.......even teams with loaded DL like Philly and SF have them.

 

If you are going to be as DL-centric as the Bills want to be you REALLY gotta' be able to at least develop some of your own reserve DL who can play that you didn't have to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick or free agent contract in.

 

I like Beane and think he can improve.....and is improving gradually.   But they aren't a GREAT team because Beane and McD are only GOOD at their jobs.    If one or the other were great at what they do they'd have won a SB in the past 3 seasons.    Overall, since day 1 McD has been the better of the two and I think has less ceiling left.   So Beane really needs to get in that Howie Roseman category of GM and doesn't have a lot of excuse not to with all the rope Terry Pegula has given him. 

 

 

 

Our #2 receiver has 50 yards less and 2 TDs more than DaVonte, Philly's #2 receiver.

 

Gabe also has 140 more yards and four more TDs than Deebo, SF's #2. 

 

If those two teams have a really good WR2 as you say, then our 2 is producing right with them or out-producing them.

 

Beane and McD have more to prove. So do the GM/coaches of both those teams, who with Roseman as the exception, have also not GM'd and head-coached their way to Super Bowl victories. And Roseman's SB win came in his 8th year as GM. Our guys still have a couple of years to catch up. No reason to think Beane and McD aren't great. Very very few teams have had as much consistent high-level results the past few years as we have.

 

And it's nonsense that if you want to have a good DL you  "have to develop at least some of your own reserve DLs."  No, you don't. 
That is one of several ways to be successful. If you want to have a really good DL and be DL-centric, what you have to do is have a really good DL and be DL-centric. How you do it doesn't matter. There's no requirement that it has to be done the Badol way. It just has to get done.

 

You cite the 9ers. Where are all the DLs they drafted lower and developed? Their top 8 are Chase Young, Arik Armstead, Javon Hargrove, Nick Bosa, Clelin Ferrell, Kevin Givens, Javon Kinlaw and Randy Gregory. The only one of those guys who they didn't draft in the top two rounds or acquire from other teams is Kevin Givens, a lower-level platoon guy. Is he any better than Harrison Phillips, who the Bills drafted late and developed?

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Warriorspikes51]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Fournette isn't an upgrade over Murrary. I don't care about a single PS signing, ever, and I don't understand why fans assume he will have any impact on our season. Maybe we elevate him a couple times in games with a run-heavy game plan... Outside of that what does he really offer over Murrary?

 

Linval Joseph is a bare minimum 1T signing, which is to say I really like it because we didn't already have the bare minimum on the roster.

 

Douglas I really like, this is the real needle mover for me. CB is the only premium position where we had a gaping hole on the roster and it seemed inconceivable that we could make it through a championship run with Benford + Jackon and only the corpse of Josh Norman behind them.

 

As others have mentioned we are still lacking in the playmaker department. I don't think there were any realistic trades to be made there so I won't fault Beane twice for the same mistake, but unfortunately it does now appear that failing to acquire DeAndre Hopkins in the offseason was indeed a serious mistake. For the meager price of some of the worst players on our team - Phillips, Ford, and Settle to start - plus some clever contract structuring, we could have had arguably the most dangerous offense in football, and one built to win in January.

 

Too late for that now though. So we're resting our hopes of even making it to the playoffs on a solid CB, a bare minimum 1T, and a PS RB.

 

maybe wishful thinking on my part…but I expect Linval to make a big difference as soon as he takes the field. He’s been staying in shape waiting to join a team. Did the exact same thing with Eagles last year at this time. Right away their defense got better. They gave up nearly 5 fewer points per game when he was out there. Him just anchoring and taking on 2 OL often will be huge for Oliver and the edge rushers

Edited November 3, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Solomon Grundy]

11 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

How the F I miss that one! Good one.

Rapp

[LyndonvilleBill]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Agree good week.

I'd still sign Suh and jettison Ford

Suh would add another player to the SB list. 😁

[BillsVet]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I used to say pass rusher was the clear 2nd most important position to QB..........but in the last 6 seasons in particular WR has really closed the gap in terms of importance and a proven indicator of deep playoff advancement.     

 

And having a really good WR2 has proven to be a pretty easy ask.....it's not like only a handful of teams has them.......even teams with loaded DL like Philly and SF have them.

 

If you are going to be as DL-centric as the Bills want to be you REALLY gotta' be able to at least develop some of your own reserve DL who can play that you didn't have to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick or free agent contract in.

 

I like Beane and think he can improve.....and is improving gradually.   But they aren't a GREAT team because Beane and McD are only GOOD at their jobs.    If one or the other were great at what they do they'd have won a SB in the past 3 seasons.    Overall, since day 1 McD has been the better of the two and I think has less ceiling left.   So Beane really needs to get in that Howie Roseman category of GM and doesn't have a lot of excuse not to with all the rope Terry Pegula has given him. 

 

McBeane's philosophy/scheme keeps running into cap management, notably a reluctance to draft DTs and develop them the past few years.  It's clear they would rather pay UFA rates to keep that group deep.  If that's an attempt to mitigate injuries, so be it, but so would having mid-20's aged guys with an added benefit of offering some cap relief from featuring 3-4 UFA's making 2M+ per every year.    

 

Still, it's that way at DE, LB and DB's: veterans on second/later contracts or high(er) drafted players.  I don't see guys on their first contract aside from Bernard or Benford who I don't think were the plan until a player could not be fit in cap-wise (Edmunds) or for performance/injury issues (Elam, White).

 

I question the need to feature a veteran defense every season, primarily because building out a roster this way has limited upside particularly when the playoffs come around.  Another 2 DT's fulfills McBeane's philosophy, but it hurts when you don't have a veritable second/third receiving option for Josh in games you might need to score more points and the defense isn't working as well.       

[Paup 1995MVP]

19 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I think with all due respect the true measuring stick comes on Sunday night.  Let’s see how Beane’s roster stacks up against the team that demolished last year’s version in the playoffs. 

Not having Milano is a big loss against Cincinnati.  Get a good pass rush on Burrow.  And play press coverage on their WR's.  Can't give them the 8 yard pass all night because we are afraid of getting beat deep.  

 

Bills just need to play tough hard nosed football against the Bengals.  I hope Douglas and Joseph are on the field.  They are both good tough smart veteran players.

 

We need to keep the score close and let Josh win it for us in the 4th quarter.

 

Lets hope the coaching staff can come up with a gameplan that actually gives us a chance to win.  McDermott teams have fallen short in big games in that respect.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

This is kind of what I felt during the offseason. 

 

The Bills were over the cap by $24M and had to restructure several deals to get under the cap. 

 

At that point they had about $17M in cap space. They could have traded/signed one or two larger names (Hopkins probably the biggest), but instead took their previous routes of keeping the 2020-2022 Bills as intact as they could, and then jamming as many veterans in as they could: Poyer, Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, Damien Harris, Taylor Rapp, David Edwards, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Connor McGovern, Leonard Floyd.

 

Same as the trade deadline, created $4M in space from Dion Dawkins, worked with a total of $4.9M, and have jammed in Joseph, Douglas and Fournette (P.S.) all for the equivalent capital asset loss of a 4th Rounder. 

 

Despite the Playoff losses, the Bills still have some cache in the league. I think Beane has done what he can to put veterans on this team that can play right away. 

 

I'm of the opinion that we need another high traits WR in here to ultimately get where we want to go, but Beane is active and he's trying. 

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

McBeane's philosophy/scheme keeps running into cap management, notably a reluctance to draft DTs and develop them the past few years.  It's clear they would rather pay UFA rates to keep that group deep.  If that's an attempt to mitigate injuries, so be it, but so would having mid-20's aged guys with an added benefit of offering some cap relief from featuring 3-4 UFA's making 2M+ per every year.    

 

Still, it's that way at DE, LB and DB's: veterans on second/later contracts or high(er) drafted players.  I don't see guys on their first contract aside from Bernard or Benford who I don't think were the plan until a player could not be fit in cap-wise (Edmunds) or for performance/injury issues (Elam, White).

 

I question the need to feature a veteran defense every season, primarily because building out a roster this way has limited upside particularly when the playoffs come around.  Another 2 DT's fulfills McBeane's philosophy, but it hurts when you don't have a veritable second/third receiving option for Josh in games you might need to score more points and the defense isn't working as well.       

Fair enough, BV. But the Beane plan IS working. Every year, it appears the cupboard at DT looks or is perceived to be bare for the following seasons. But he finds the right pieces! No one can predict injuries and the DTs certainly get the Hell beat out of them. Yet, every year, he restocks them with new and comparatively better replacements. Let the chef cook. It’s part of how we manage overall Cap implications. QB, WR & DE eat up most of our Cap -and they're worth it! Imo, Beane’s design is pretty masterful.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Chandler#81

[RyanC883]

19 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

So the consensus seems to be that Beane shouldn't be fired this week.

I think for most McD has been the issue,  not Bean.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

36 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Fair enough, BV. But the Beane plan IS working. Every year, it appears the cupboard at DT looks or is perceived to be bare for the following seasons. But he finds the right pieces! No one can predict injuries and the DTs certainly get the Hell beat out of them. Yet, every year, he restocks them with new and comparatively better replacements. Let the chef cook. It’s part of how we manage overall Cap implications. QB, WR & DE eat up most of our Cap -and they're worth it! Imo, Beane’s design is pretty masterful.

In the end this comes down to drafting. 
 

The Bills do a nice job of being active in FA and at the trade deadline. 
 

But we can all go through the lists and see how some of their 1st and 2nd Round picks have turned out, and say those are the key decisions holding us back. 

[Chandler#81]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

In the end this comes down to drafting. 
 

The Bills do a nice job of being active in FA and at the trade deadline. 
 

But we can all go through the lists and see how some of their 1st and 2nd Round picks have turned out, and say those are the key decisions holding us back. 

Yes, but the post I was referring to speaks to DT. Have we bothered to address this in the Draft since Oliver? On this team, DTs are a FA get. But, carry on with your crusade.👊

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes, but the post I was referring to speaks to DT. Have we bothered to address this in the Draft since Oliver? On this team, DTs are a FA get. But, carry on with your crusade.👊

What crusade is that? 

[Mark Vader]

21 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I think with all due respect the true measuring stick comes on Sunday night.  Let’s see how Beane’s roster stacks up against the team that demolished last year’s version in the playoffs. 

This is a significantly different team from last year's version.

[PBF81]

20 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I think with all due respect the true measuring stick comes on Sunday night.  Let’s see how Beane’s roster stacks up against the team that demolished last year’s version in the playoffs. 

 

That'll be the proof in the pudding.  

 

That and whether we even show up for the 1st Half this week.  

 

We have a significant advantage with 10 days prep and Cincy playing a late game out west.  

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Our #2 receiver has 50 yards less and 2 TDs more than DaVonte, Philly's #2 receiver.

 

DaVonta also has been seen as having a slow start.  Yet in 8 games he has one game with 3 or less receptions...just one.  Meanwhile Gabe in 8 games has 5 games with 3 or less receptions.  Devonta plays in a heavy run offense and has 4+ catches in 7 of his 8 games.  Gabe plays with Josh Allen in a pass heavy offense and has only reached 4+ catches 3 times in 8 games.  

 

And that is the issue with Gabe...consistency.  He always has a couple solid to great games a year to pad his "totals", but week to week he most often doesn't show up and make an impact.  

 

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Gabe also has 140 more yards and four more TDs than Deebo, SF's #2. 

 

Deebo is hurt and has missed the last 2 games, so that isn't a fair comparison.  Not to mention, Deebo plays on a heavy running team with a game manager QB who also runs the ball and is more of a hyrbid WR/RB unique player than a dedicated #2 WR on every down like Gabe.   

 

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

If those two teams have a really good WR2 as you say, then our 2 is producing right with them or out-producing them.

 

No disrespect, but for the points I mentioned above, he really isn't in either case.  

 

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Beane and McD have more to prove. So do the GM/coaches of both those teams, who with Roseman as the exception, have also not GM'd and head-coached their way to Super Bowl victories. And Roseman's SB win came in his 8th year as GM. Our guys still have a couple of years to catch up. No reason to think Beane and McD aren't great. Very very few teams have had as much consistent high-level results the past few years as we have.

 

I do agree that Beane has been a great GM IMHO.  Not his fault so critical injuries and some stupid on field happenings have kept this team from getting over the hump.  

 

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

And it's nonsense that if you want to have a good DL you  "have to develop at least some of your own reserve DLs."  No, you don't. 
That is one of several ways to be successful. If you want to have a really good DL and be DL-centric, what you have to do is have a really good DL and be DL-centric. How you do it doesn't matter. There's no requirement that it has to be done the Badol way. It just has to get done.

 

You cite the 9ers. Where are all the DLs they drafted lower and developed? Their top 8 are Chase Young, Arik Armstead, Javon Hargrove, Nick Bosa, Clelin Ferrell, Kevin Givens, Javon Kinlaw and Randy Gregory. The only one of those guys who they didn't draft in the top two rounds or acquire from other teams is Kevin Givens, a lower-level platoon guy. Is he any better than Harrison Phillips, who the Bills drafted late and developed?

 

Agree that there is more than 1 way to build something.  Although I will say it helps significantly more when you do so through the draft given the cap savings of having those high performing players on rookie contracts.  Then there is the added layer of what a team is paying their QB.  For example, Josh Allen makes more in one game than Purdy is making for the season, so a team like the Niners has the luxury of acquiring high end talent on the DL where as the Bills can't just do that at will without shedding salary elsewhere given Allen's contract.  

 

So for a team like the Bills, landing starters and impact players in the draft has a higher importance.  That being said, I still think Beane has a very good draft track record overall personally.  

[Mark Vader]

22 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Are the Rams Beane's new Panthers?

I hope so. I'd love to have Cooper Kupp with us next year.

[Warriorspikes51]

43 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I hope so. I'd love to have Cooper Kupp with us next year.

1% chance that Rams implode to the point Aaron Donald asks for his release to join a contender in Dec/Jan

Yes. Want. 

[Mark Vader]

4 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

1% chance that Rams implode to the point Aaron Donald asks for his release to join a contender in Dec/Jan

Yes. Want. 

Kupp is currently 30, and they have Nacua. Then there is Kupp's contract, how much longer until the Rams want to get younger?

[Richard Noggin]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:35 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

Loved all 3 acquisitions.  I think Douglas and Joseph can definitely fill in respectfully for Tre & DQ.  I also could see both re-signed as primary backups for next season. Fournette will improve our pass blocking assignments and give veteran leadership after Cooks' touches.  All 3 are very good complementary pickups by Beane.  Well done.....

 

Rasul is signed through next season already, and I'd argue that if he plays the way some hope he will given his scheme fit, the Bills might even look to extend him a year or two and bring down the cap number for 2024.

 

Don't think Joseph is a guy who would even want/need to be re-signed for a full offseason and training camp. He has a pretty awesome thing going now for 2 straight years whereby his body gets TONS of rest and recovery and he gets to make a mid-season, educated decision on which suitor to choose. 

 

Fournette? Maybe. McD likes big, veteran RBs. 

 

On 11/2/2023 at 4:48 PM, BillsFan692 said:

Hard to get too high about #3 i mean this dude was sitting on a couch. Kinda same for #1...

 

#2 was solid though and we'll see how Lenny plays out!

 

Joseph definitely added value to Philly's vaunted IDL last year, and whaddaya know? He signed with them the first week of November. Hmm.

 

On 11/2/2023 at 8:19 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

But Stef is so darn handsome. And I have also seen his icebucket challenge video from when he was in college. Stef has no issues below the waist, trust me. 

 

I will not google "Stefon Diggs ice bucket challenge"

I will not google "Stefon Diggs ice bucket challenge"

[3rdand12]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:55 PM, mrags said:

Yeah I don’t think he gets fired tho. I think McD holds more power than Beane does with ownership. Terry is a sap 

Not sure i can agree with you here. because , to be honest , i just dont know the synergy there.
 Beanes has brought in some good players. Via draft and FA. not perfect of course but give him a quite positive grade , even when balanced with the tough missed

 

But Coaching development , and coaching of the Players and then proper use is questionable still with McDermott

On 11/2/2023 at 7:49 PM, BuffaninSarasota said:

Jettison Ford ?

he was in that movie .