What of Elam now??

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, BananaB said:

I find it funny so many think he is bad but Benford and Dane are solid. They all look bad to me. 
 

Benford probably the best but he gives up his fair share and takes penalties every game

I have found Benford wanting as well. Seems that for every solid play he makes, he messes up 2. To me, he looked better last year.

[SCBills]

Beane speaking on Elam dealing with an ankle injury and the potential of shutting him down to let him heal. 

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Beane speaking on Elam dealing with an ankle injury and the potential of shutting him down to let him heal. 

Wait what? Has this been on the injury report?

[Big Blitz]

9 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Wait what? Has this been on the injury report?

 

Nope

[Maine-iac]

Already said it but since the question is still being asked .............. Elam didn't get pulled because he couldn't cover even though Ridley was eating his lunch  Elam got pulled because we needed to stop the run and he was whiffing on guys and giving up big run plays.  

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2023/10/11/23911586/bills-vs-jaguars-a-tale-of-two-different-golden-opportunities-de-aj-epenesa-cb-kaiir-elam-nfl-week-5

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

I have found Benford wanting as well. Seems that for every solid play he makes, he messes up 2. To me, he looked better last year.

 

Thought Benford had a strong game against the Bucs for the most part.

Hmm..interesting...perhaps this is pat of the reason why Elam hasn't been playing well?

 

 

[The Wiz]

[BrettFavre]

Pretty obvious 53 man manipulation on a guy who couldn't make the active roster even prior to us adding another CB. I support it though, stash him and hope for next year.

[davefan66]

49 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

They really have their hands tied, his contract is guaranteed and theres 2 full years left.  Trading him next year gets you out of guaranteed base, and you have less of a bonus burden you can spread.  Jackson (UFA) gets replaced on the roster next year by douglas, white is back (depending on the draft direction he could be a cap casualty), you have benford, and then Elam. 

 

I would suspect one of the late picks at least is used on a corner to either push elam off the roster, or at least potentially find a project who projects as a better fit in what we do.  Elam likely gets every chance to make an impact and the team in that scenario, and if he doesn't they can try and trade him.  His contract next season would be 2yr 4.5M for the acquiring team.  This is pretty much the going rate for a depth corner, and he offers more portential and long-term upside than a 30 year old ronald darby for example (darby got 1yr 1.7M this past year).  We wouldn't see much here other than a pick swap in a trade as his value is cratered though.  

 

We man-match quite a bit though, and we were trying to create some pressure and muddy the reads.  Bail coverage is fine, but he was giving up a ton of space and not closing.  He seems to lack confidence at the moment - he was playing really safe.  

Looks like he may be looking at IR.

 

My guess is we go FA corner(s) for next season.  Probably 2nd tier.  At least they’d have a NFL track record.

[MarkyMannn]

Ankle injury aside, I don't get the Elam effectiveness, or lack of.  His physical ability is great, must be just applying that on the field. Man or zone, and everything else about pass defending, is he incapable of getting it mentally, or poor coaching this guy up? They seem to coach up a lot of other guys though.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

18 hours ago, skibum said:

To all the folks who suggest he be traded - Traded for what??? He's a first round pick who can't get on the field, even when injuries strike. Who is press-boxed in favor of off-the-couch Josh freaking Norman! Who forced his GM to cough up a 3rd rounder to bring in yet another vet at the deadline!

 

How do you wash that kind of stink off? I think they're stuck with him. Either the light bulb goes on, or they cut him in the off-season. Maybe they try to stash him on the practice squad, but it seems like they think he can't play pro ball at all. 

If that's the case (that they think he can't play pro ball at all) then someone needs to be canned for that kind of BS scouting.  He played and started at a big time SEC program.  If they watched his film, they can tell what kind of player he was.  You don't draft guys in the first round randomly, who don't have athletic ability.  

 

I thought he looked solid last year.  And then this season, he isn't dressing to start the year.  And when he did play against the Jags and Giants, he looked like dump (as my daughter fondly likes to say).  Something had to have happened to this kid in the offseason.  We just don't know what it is.  Hard to believe we started Levi Wallace a player of very limited physical ability for 3 years, and won't let Elam a 1st round pick even dress.  Does not make sense.

 

I would not completely write him off just yet.  But someone on the team needs to take him under their wing and teach him the finer points of playing CB at the NFL level.  Hyde and Poyer would be a good start even though they play safety.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

22 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Looks like he may be looking at IR.

 

My guess is we go FA corner(s) for next season.  Probably 2nd tier.  At least they’d have a NFL track record.

 

Depends where tre is at with rehab.  They'd still have Douglas and Benford, plus whatever with Elam.  They'd save about 6M by cutting tre, but you have to factor in how much of that can be spent on another corner.  If you replace him with a draft pick - the majority of that money can be used on another position of need like WR or DE.  If you pay a vet, you're probably looking at less than half of the cap savings.  

 

Also you want to factor in that rehab for achilles is quite a bit shorter than an ACL and he may be back in time for minicamp/training camp.  It's tough to want to trust a player coming off two major injuries over a 3 year period entering his age 29 season.  If he can get back to where he was though, he is so much better than anything you could get with that 6M in savings. 

[balln]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Depends where tre is at with rehab.  They'd still have Douglas and Benford, plus whatever with Elam.  They'd save about 6M by cutting tre, but you have to factor in how much of that can be spent on another corner.  If you replace him with a draft pick - the majority of that money can be used on another position of need like WR or DE.  If you pay a vet, you're probably looking at less than half of the cap savings.  

 

Also you want to factor in that rehab for achilles is quite a bit shorter than an ACL and he may be back in time for minicamp/training camp.  It's tough to want to trust a player coming off two major injuries over a 3 year period entering his age 29 season.  If he can get back to where he was though, he is so much better than anything you could get with that 6M in savings. 

Rehab for Achilles shorter than acl? There’s a diff from rehab and return to play. Especially for elite athlete. They are probably exactly the same / usually Achilles is longer

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

If that's the case (that they think he can't play pro ball at all) then someone needs to be canned for that kind of BS scouting.  He played and started at a big time SEC program.  If they watched his film, they can tell what kind of player he was.  You don't draft guys in the first round randomly, who don't have athletic ability.  

 

I thought he looked solid last year.  And then this season, he isn't dressing to start the year.  And when he did play against the Jags and Giants, he looked like dump (as my daughter fondly likes to say).  Something had to have happened to this kid in the offseason.  We just don't know what it is.  Hard to believe we started Levi Wallace a player of very limited physical ability for 3 years, and won't let Elam a 1st round pick even dress.  Does not make sense.

 

I would not completely write him off just yet.  But someone on the team needs to take him under their wing and teach him the finer points of playing CB at the NFL level.  Hyde and Poyer would be a good start even though they play safety.  

 

I don't think any of our corners have supreme ball skills, and all get hammered on back shoulder looks.  But Benford and Jackson do a better job on shorter stuff keeping it in front of you, wrapping up, and timing catch point disruption.  Elam's not getting his head around at all, he needs to play tighter, but i don't think McD trusts him to do so without getting penalties.  

Just now, balln said:

Rehab for Achilles shorter than acl? There’s a diff from rehab and return to play. Especially for elite athlete. They are probably exactly the same / usually Achilles is longer

 

Akers tore his Achilles 7/20/2021 and was active again on 12/25/2021.  That's considerably shorter than any ACL injuries I've seen for a skill position player.  Closest i can think of is Peterson who tore his ACL/MCL on 12/26/2011 and returned to start 9/9/2012.  

 

Only reason I'd like to see tre back is the likelihood of losing hyde.  Having 2 new faces in the secondary isn't ideal. 

[HappyDays]

Elam has had a bone bruise since the last week of training camp that hasn't quite healed. Beane's comments today about his nagging ankle injury, that's what he is referring to.

[Big Turk]

52 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Ankle injury aside, I don't get the Elam effectiveness, or lack of.  His physical ability is great, must be just applying that on the field. Man or zone, and everything else about pass defending, is he incapable of getting it mentally, or poor coaching this guy up? They seem to coach up a lot of other guys though.  

 

He has been relatively good in zone that's the crazy part.

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Elam has had a bone bruise since the last week of training camp that hasn't quite healed. Beane's comments today about his nagging ankle injury, that's what he is referring to.

 

I mean that can't be why he has sucked tho can it?  Maybe that is like 5% of it but if he is out there running around and playing I can't imagine it could be a huge factor...

[The Wiz]

 

[Brian Higgins hair]

Injury possibility aside, I don’t see a trade unless he becomes worth less on the team than his rookie contract would dictate.

I think he stays and works through his rookie deal, and improves.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Brian Higgins hair

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

5 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Wow

[SCBills]

Whoa… ok, if the Bills turned down a 3rd Round Pick for Elam, this curious case of Kaiir Elam becomes even curiouser…