Bears CB Jaylon Johnson Requests to be Traded

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... I'm pretty sure McDermott likes INTs too. He had two great defenses in Carolina: 2013 and 2015. In 2013, they finished fifth in the league in INTs, and 2015 (their 15-1 season), they finished first. 

 

The Buffalo D's INT rankings since McDermott arrived:

 

2017: 6th

2018: 7th

2019: 8th

2020: 7th

2021: 4th

2022: 3rd

 

Currently, they're seventh, but they were first after four games.

 

Long story short: McDermott defenses rely a lot on interceptions.

 

I wouldn't say they rely on them as much as they are a byproduct of playing exceptional team defense that forces teams to execute at a very high level on offense to beat them and their ability to disguise coverages with post snap rotations very well. For long stretches of time, their pass D was a virtual "No Fly Zone" where 200 yards against them was the equivalent of 300 yards versus other teams.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Big Turk

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

I wouldn't say they rely on them as much as they are a byproduct of playing exceptional team defense that forces teams to execute at a very high level on offense to beat them and their ability to disguise coverages with post snap rotations very well.

 

Yeah, but you do need playmaking ability. Johnson apparently has that. And he's also apparently sound in zone.

[Mango]

2 hours ago, wettlaufer said:

How about shipping out Elam and a second rounder? This guy is a zone corner and the Bears don't want to pay him because he's weaker in man coverage than zone. Can we restructure Tre here? Johnson definitely wants top-10 money in an extension.

 

 https://beargoggleson.com/posts/jaylon-johnson-requests-trade-chicago-bears-grant-permission-nfl-deadline

 

Very unsure how restructuring works for players on IR?

Outside of IR, restructuring Tre would only kick his cap hit down the line. So yes they could, but he likely becomes $20M against the cap in 24, 25, or 26. The Bills can actually save some money in 2024 by cutting Tre. Which is actually a heart breaker for me. I love that guy. 

[dave mcbride]

The Bears just traded a second round pick for Montez Sweat. Wondering how this factors in, if at all ...

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Yeah, but you do need playmaking ability. Johnson apparently has that. And he's also apparently sound in zone.

 

Well...I mean Poyer dropped 2 INTs last game and Tre dropped a pick 6 against Miami, Milano dropped a pick 6 earlier in the year, Taron Johnson dropped an INT...they are guys who regularly make those plays, so it's not like they haven't been in position to get more INTs than they have, they just dropped the ball. Literally.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Well...I mean Poyer dropped 2 INTs last game and Tre dropped a pick 6 against Miami, Milano dropped a pick 6 earlier in the year, Taron Johnson dropped an INT...they are guys who regularly make those plays, so it's not like they haven't been in position to get more INTs than they have, they just dropped the ball. Literally.

I'm thinking more the boundary CBs. Dane Jackson and Benford don't really drop anything. Benford had a chance for a pick vs Mayfield late but seemed to try to defense it rather than snag it. Don't get me wrong - I like Benford. He can cover.

 

Also, on second viewing, I don't think Poyer dropped that shallow crosser pass - the receiver got his hand in there and defended it well.

Edited October 31, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Big Turk]

Just now, Mango said:

 

Very unsure how restructuring works for players on IR?

Outside of IR, restructuring Tre would only kick his cap hit down the line. So yes they could, but he likely becomes $20M against the cap in 24, 25, or 26. The Bills can actually save some money in 2024 by cutting Tre. Which is actually a heart breaker for me. I love that guy. 

 

Yeah...but at the end of the day it's a business. Tre is everything that is right with the Bills...hard working guy who was McD's first player selected to help turn this franchise around and he has taken that role very seriously and embraced it.  Honestly, if the Bills do cut him I think McD will probably shed a few tears with him when they have to tell him while hugging him and telling him how much he appreciates everything he has meant to them and to him personally.

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I'm thinking more the boundary CBs. Dane Jackson and Benford don't really drop anything. Benford had a chance for a pick vs Mayfield late but seemed to try to defense it rather than snag it. Don't get me wrong - I like Benford. He can cover.

 

Fair points.  They could definitely use an upgrade on the boundary, which was what Elam was supposed to be and at times appeared like he was going to be last year and then inexplicably can't get on the field this year and when he does it's been mostly bad.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

The bears last year traded Roquan Smith to Baltimore for:

 

2023 2nd and 5th rounders plus AJ Klein.

 

Smith already had a deal in place also so I imagine he is more expensive than Johnson will be.

 

One small nit: Smith did not have a deal in place at time of trade. He was traded at the deadline, and did not sign his new contract until January.

 

And that was with having to deal with Smith's non-certified "agent" Saint Omni, and getting past that.

 

My point is, it's possible to get it done later.

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

One small nit: Smith did not have a deal in place at time of trade. He was traded at the deadline, and did not sign his new contract until January.

 

And that was with having to deal with Smith's non-certified "agent" Saint Omni, and getting past that.

 

My point is, it's possible to get it done later.

oh my fault there.  I was thinking he had signed....but I guess that would not have made sense.

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Incorrect.   Even sans Gilmore and Woods they took a veteran laden 10 win quality team into camp.   Their offense had lead the NFL in rushing AND big plays for 2 straight seasons despite Woods and Watkins missing a lot of time during those seasons.   Dennison screwed that up but the talent was proven.   Their defense had just enough pieces and playmakers to be very good until they traded Dareus and pulled the drain plug on their run D.    The notion that it was a bad roster was incorrect.   It was an OLD roster........but not bad in a relatively weak AFC.   And I called it........they Jauron-balled their way to a great start and finished strong against a weak schedule even after their trade deadline disaster deals(Dareus out, Benjamin in).    I'd sure take a Lorenzo Alexander back from that team.

Gilmore and Lorax would be the only two guys that would start on this roster currently, no? Maybe the younger versions of the safety duo? McCoy was rapidly aging out, the OL was mediocre. The receiving options were disasters.

 

To me, if they can Jauron Ball their way to making the playoff as a tiebreaker on the last play of the season, they aren’t that talented by definition. 

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Incorrect.   Even sans Gilmore and Woods they took a veteran laden 10 win quality team into camp.   Their offense had lead the NFL in rushing AND big plays for 2 straight seasons despite Woods and Watkins missing a lot of time during those seasons.   Dennison screwed that up but the talent was proven.   Their defense had just enough pieces and playmakers to be very good until they traded Dareus and pulled the drain plug on their run D.    The notion that it was a bad roster was incorrect.   It was an OLD roster........but not bad in a relatively weak AFC.   And I called it........they Jauron-balled their way to a great start and finished strong against a weak schedule even after their trade deadline disaster deals(Dareus out, Benjamin in).    I'd sure take a Lorenzo Alexander back from that team.

Gilmore and Lorax would be the only two guys that would start on this roster currently, no? Maybe the younger versions of the safety duo? McCoy was rapidly aging out, the OL was mediocre. The receiving options were disasters.

 

To me, if they can Jauron Ball their way to making the playoff as a tiebreaker on the last play of the season, they aren’t that talented by definition. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I don't value CB in the Bills system enough to use a first round pick on anybody other than a generational player at that position.

 

McDermott's scheme is different when he has an island CB1. When he knows a third of the field is taken away by one guy, it changes everything he can do in the back 7. The reason he's been blitzing so much lately is he has no faith that our coverage will hold up.

 

So if we're assuming Tre is done and Elam is a bust (both reasonable assumptions), getting that caliber of player is still a huge need for our defense, arguably the biggest need on the entire team.

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bears just traded a second round pick for Montez Sweat. Wondering how this factors in, if at all ...

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

 

It seems to be a mystery to me as well. Until I realize, it's the Bears.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Mango said:

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

Could simply be a philosophical approach at work -- sign him long term and build up the d-line, making that the focal point of their defense. And maybe Johnson has indicated that he's testing FA no matter what. They probably don't want to franchise him (he's not worth it), but Sweat, who is very good, arguably is.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

Desperation to show improvement this season. Their FO and coaching staff are not safe if they are picking in the top 2 again. 

[Beast]

14 minutes ago, Process said:

Yea I get it from the bears perspective. I'm just not interested and happy to pass at that price.

At some point it’s about winning now. Elam and a 3rd, or two 3rds, and I do this in a heartbeat.

 

I don’t care if it’s for only half a season.

[Yobogoya!]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... I'm pretty sure McDermott likes INTs too. He had two great defenses in Carolina: 2013 and 2015. In 2013, they finished fifth in the league in INTs, and 2015 (their 15-1 season), they finished first. 

 

The Buffalo D's INT rankings since McDermott arrived:

 

2017: 6th

2018: 7th

2019: 8th

2020: 7th

2021: 4th

2022: 3rd

 

Currently, they're seventh, but they were first after four games.

 

Long story short: McDermott defenses rely a lot on interceptions.

 

Ok I never said that McDermott "doesn't like INT's." What coordinator tells his defense not to intercept the ball if they can?

 

I'm saying that he puts a higher premium on each individual member of the defense doing their part. I'm saying that if you don't understand the scheme and don't handle your responsibilities, he won't put you out there. A player that doesn't do their job won't have the CHANCE to intercept the ball. 

 

We've never gone after a player like, say, Marcus Peters. A player who is a huge ballhawk, but oftentimes to the detriment of the scheme overall. A player who is inclined to put his own stats above the team. Tell me, wise one... why do you think that is? Is it because McD "doesn't like INT's," or is it because he doesn't want a player to prioritize INT's over fundamentals? 

 

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to prove, honestly. Are you really going to try and say that McD doesn't emphasize understanding his scheme as a massive priority? That he won't sit a player who doesn't prove he can do that?

 

The whole reason this trade thread is a thing is because he's benched a more talented player (Elam) for players who understand the defense and perform their role better (Jackson and Benford). Why are you acting like the point I made was ludicrous? Lol

[MikePJ76]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

They have a ton of cap space, a qb on a rookie contract, in the 24 draft as of right now they have Two 1's, a 3 and two 4's.  The 2nd and 3rd draft picks belong to them at the moment.

 

I imagine they see him as a long term fit that is part of the rebuild.

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Which is also super weird, the Bears are terrible. Montez Sweat is in the last year of his contract. They gave up a high second for him? 

I don't get it. 

Here's my thought.

 

They have 2 high 1sts next year. Pass Rush is a HUGE need for them. This lets them bring in Sweat early. Get into the system. Not have to spend those 1sts on a pass rusher.

 

They have a TON of cap space right now and can easily sign him to a deal before the end of the season. I'm betting they had permission to chat with his agent before making the trade and it's already in the works. As long as they get the extension done it's not a bad move. Sweat is proven to be good. A draft pick may not.

 

Also, day isn't done. They may still move Johnson and get some picks back. 

[balln]

Just now, Yobogoya! said:

 

Ok I never said that McDermott "doesn't like INT's." What coordinator tells his defense not to intercept the ball if they can?

 

I'm saying that he puts a higher premium on each individual member of the defense doing their part. I'm saying that if you don't understand the scheme and don't handle your responsibilities, he won't put you out there. A player that doesn't do their job won't have the CHANCE to intercept the ball. 

 

We've never gone after a player like, say, Marcus Peters. A player who is a huge ballhawk, but oftentimes to the detriment of the scheme overall. A player who is inclined to put his own stats above the team. Tell me, wise one... why do you think that is? Is it because McD "doesn't like INT's," or is it because he doesn't want a player to prioritize INT's over fundamentals? 

 

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to prove, honestly. Are you really going to try and say that McD doesn't emphasize understanding his scheme as a massive priority? That he won't sit a player who doesn't prove he can do that?

 

The whole reason this trade thread is a thing is because he's benched a more talented player (Elam) for players who understand the defense and perform their role better (Jackson and Benford). Why are you acting like the point I made was ludicrous? Lol

Yea I want a high risk / reward D. Give me ball hawks and pass rushers. The whole

philosophy w McD is wrong when you have a qb like Allen.

 

the goal should be to have as many possessions for Allen and the off. It should not be to allow the other team to dink and dunk and burn time and keep Allen from more opportunities