Beck Water Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) TBH, I think the Bills team doesn't do very well when reminded of Damar's near-death experience. I think Damien Harris being taken off the field by ambulance vs. the Giants was a PTSD flashback for a lot of the team and took some starch out of them. Just my opinion, based on not too much except a Dion Dawkins interview where he talked about what it would be like, learning you're expecting a son then in a moment worrying if you'll ever hold him I hope the Bills chaplains and sports psychiatrists work with them to strategize how to deal with the inevitable media circus for minimal disruption 3 hours ago, Jauronimo said: What kind of big game coach can prevent drops and missed tackles? A coaches job is to put players in a position to succeed. Players job is to execute. s Coach is supposed to pump up the players to a frenzy of peak mental and physical performance with his inspirational speech and the extra energy for the fist bumps and bro hugs. /s Edited October 30, 2023 by Beck Water Quote
benderbender Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 I meant to ask Joe Marino of Locked on Bills to ask Dr Kyle Trimble of Banged Up Bills what the odds of recurrence were on Delayed Onset Emotional Exhaustion. I figured it could only happen once a season but who knows. Quote
PBF81 Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, What a Tuel said: 2020 - Defense allowed 10 points through 3 quarters against the colts, and yes almost lost to a Rivers comeback rally, but they didnt. Defense allowed 3 points to the Ravens (including an infamous pick 6 in our own endzone) Defense allowed 38 to the chiefs and had no answers, thats on them. 2021 - Dismantled the Patriots and allowed 10 points through 3 quarters. Sure, we would've won that game anyway the way the offense performed. Proceeded to lose against the chiefs 13 seconds and yes, this is on the defense not being good enough. Your answer though is that a worse defense, but better offense would have won that? 🤔 2022 - Defense dominated the Dolphins offense (yes with a backup QB), but the box score doesn't show the extent of the domination. This is a case where a better offense may have prevented points scored against our defense. You cant have INTs and fumbles at our own 25, 25, and 30 and not expect the opposing offense to score. Not to mention the 5 punts with 2 net yards, 29 net yards, -2 net yards, -3 net yards, 32 net yards. Thats 11.6 yards avg per punt. The coverage team was terrible. Anyone blaming the defense for this game has a ***** memory or didn't watch. Defense and Offense folded against the Bengals. I don't see how a better offense, but a worse defense solves that problem. It seems to me that our defense allowed us to go deeper into the playoffs each of the last 3 years, so yeah it matters. We'll have to agree to disagree. Skylar Thompson, plain and simple, in one of his first few starts, in Buffalo, snow, etc. 412 Yards and 30 1st-Downs in a perfectly balanced offense (240 passing, 172 rushing) vs. Cincy which was also Cincy's best offensive playoff performance under Burrow. 552 & 30 1st-Downs to KC. Two of their biggest three offensive playoff games were against us, and once vs. our vaunted #1 Defense which was the Chiefs best playoff game offensively under Mahomes. So yeah, it was the D. 472 Yards and 27 1st-Downs to a 9th ranked Indy offense led by Rivers and worse WRs than we have after Diggs and Davis, in Indy's only playoff game over the past 4 seasons. "13 Seconds" But if you think that's good, that's fine. I don't. Again, agree to disagree. Edited October 30, 2023 by PBF81 1 Quote
What a Tuel Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, PBF81 said: We'll have to agree to disagree. Skylar Thompson, plain and simple, in one of his first few starts, in Buffalo, snow, etc. 412 Yards and 30 1st-Downs in a perfectly balanced offense (240 passing, 172 rushing) vs. Cincy which was also Cincy's best offensive playoff performance under Burrow. 552 & 30 1st-Downs to KC. Two of their biggest three offensive playoff games were against us, and once vs. our vaunted #1 Defense which was the Chiefs best playoff game offensively under Mahomes. So yeah, it was the D. 472 Yards and 27 1st-Downs to a 9th ranked Indy offense led by Rivers and worse WRs than we have after Diggs and Davis, in Indy's only playoff game over the past 4 seasons. "13 Seconds" But if you think that's good, that's fine. I don't. Again, agree to disagree. Either way, I don't actually understand what you are arguing. You think defense doesn't matter I guess, but are quoting just now 4 games in which we would not have won if our offense was better but our defense was worse while ignoring the games we won because of our defense (I see Baltimore game is suspiciously absent) Quote
BillsVet Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Right but a coach can help his team get looser or tighter, depending on what is needed. There's tension for sure and some is the pressure to win it all. At the same time, McD isn't a calming influence and that's what is needed now. Players take on the personality of their leader(s) and both sides of the ball have either McD or Dorsey running it. Neither are whom I would consider able to reduce the tension. Quote
PBF81 Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Either way, I don't actually understand what you are arguing. You think defense doesn't matter I guess, but are quoting just now 4 games in which we would not have won if our offense was better but our defense was worse while ignoring the games we won because of our defense (I see Baltimore game is suspiciously absent) The Baltimore game is fair, but we wouldn't have made it there w/o going through Indy first, and Baltimore's O was essentially a one-man show. Tennessee and their 24th ranked D held 'em to 20 points the week prior. The Ravens haven't scored more than 20 PPG in the playoffs in any of their 5 playoff games dating back to 2018. So while good, consider the O there. The NE game was another solid D effort, but consider their offense with Mac Jones as a rookie. The overall argument was that we're focusing too much on our defensive injury woes right now. Groot and AJE have come on, Floyd was signed to backup Miller and has done about what Miller did last year through the same number of games. Our LB issues are because of McBeane and that's the way they wanted it. This team should be focused around it's Allen-led offense first and foremost. We've put so many expensive resources into the D, because that's what McD knows, but nowhere near the same level into the offense. The point was also that it's our offense that has determined how far we advance, or in the case of "13 Seconds," simply revealing a cataclysmic failure in the D preventing it. We have the offensive talent to be doing much much better than we are. We obviously, as many of us see it, don't have the right person at the helm of this rig. Otherwise we'd be realizing that offensive powerhouse aspect. I mean seriously, not even 21 PPG over the past four games, ... and we're talking about against the currently 6th, 10th, 23rd, and 26th defenses, not the Ravens, Cowboys, and Niners. Quote
DrPJax Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 17 hours ago, newcam2012 said: McD and his coaching staff got thoroughly embarrassed in that playoff game. Out coached in every way. Unprepared is an accurate statement. Put aside all the turmoil of the season. What was most bothersome was the Bills game plan. To this day, I have no idea what they were doing? They had a dress rehearsal a few weeks prior which should have prepared them to have an effective game plan. Or a the very least different game plan. Nothing zero zilch... Fast forward to this week and we Bills fans believe this coaching staff will step up? Why would you think that? Please elaborate because I want to hear a logical and realistic response. Add on the team hasn't played well in several games. The defense is a shell of itself. You really think the Bills can stop or contain Burrow and company? I'd recommend you rewatch last year's game for a reference. I just pounded the Bengals at -2.5 for one of my bigger bets I've made. They looked the part. They played well in every phase. They look to be hitting their best stride. They shredded the niner defense. Burrow looked elite, in control, poised, and virtually unstoppable. It was a lot like when they throttled the Bills. To be truthful it's not that simple. He should absolutely have a game which tries to give the Bills the best chance to win. That's all you can ask for. I'm just not seeing how this depleted D can stop the Burrow leD. No if they had a healthy Tre, DJones, Milano, and Von then I'd like their chance. That's just not the case here. BEST , honest assessment I’ve seen on this board in two years. Bengals, esp burrow looked fantastic and noe burrow if fully healed ripping off several key runs. His passing was pinpoint again, with still some pressures from the 49ers line. They are getting right, playing very confidently now. The Bills are still finding an identity. People were so enthralled with the BUCS win ; yet we scored less than the terrible previous week ( and we just saw how the fins easily rolled that pretend team)and finished with a series of punts as mcd once again almost turned a win into a loss. People are in denial that we were a Hail Mary from a loss and that BALL HIT THE GOUND WITHOUT A BILL KNOCKING IT DOWN as they were sprawled on the ground “boxing out “ receivers yet GODWIN catches that if he gets his head around. NOT A VERY INSPIRING, confidence building victory. WE saw the bills being crushed before Hamlin’s collapse, then crushed quickly in the playoff game. So you have a peaking bengals o, going up against our arguably worst back 7 , esp with the cbs looking lost at times and the safeties aging unfortunately. I am not sure what is going on with our d line , but the last two games have not been inspiring regarding finishing plays w a sack , and we are not as talented RIGHt now as the 49er s d line. It is just shaping up as a mismatch and Vegas seems to agree. i just think certain teams/ coaches seem to outscheme , outcoach mcd and the bengals coach seems to fit in as one whose teams mentally seem too come in very confident against the BILLS. Mcd has, outside the fins game and playoff game against the pats, proven multiple times he is capable of having huge collapses and no lead is ever safe given his late game d philosophy. Throw in injuries to the d stars on every level , and I don’t see how the BILLS d will stop Cincy from easily dropping 30 against this d roster on their home field. Perhaps the bills can match them on O , but who has confidence any mcd defense will keep the bengals from scoring if they have the ball and need a score to win? We easily could have lost both the giants/bucs game and did lose to a horrible pats team. The bengals , with a fully healthy BURROWS at home, are no pats , as he just went 28/32. So , while i can always hope for a BILLS win, mcd needs to prove he is up to it and I’m sorry, but he rarely outperforms good coaches, with the bengals staff already advancing further than a mcd coached team has. Throw in missing Milano, Daquan, white, von not anywhere close to being someone needed to be game planned for , and at this point i expect a game similar to the playoffs with the bengals out quick and the BILLS trying to catch up. Maybe mcd will show up for once , but now he has too much influence on the bills players psyche , I don’t see them playing with the enthusiasm /energy /passion they used to have. Most stats for the bills have regressed in the second quarter of the season as a basis for this reasoning. Bills coming out with a win seems like a big task. 1 Quote
newcam2012 Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 39 minutes ago, DrPJax said: BEST , honest assessment I’ve seen on this board in two years. Bengals, esp burrow looked fantastic and noe burrow if fully healed ripping off several key runs. His passing was pinpoint again, with still some pressures from the 49ers line. They are getting right, playing very confidently now. The Bills are still finding an identity. People were so enthralled with the BUCS win ; yet we scored less than the terrible previous week ( and we just saw how the fins easily rolled that pretend team)and finished with a series of punts as mcd once again almost turned a win into a loss. People are in denial that we were a Hail Mary from a loss and that BALL HIT THE GOUND WITHOUT A BILL KNOCKING IT DOWN as they were sprawled on the ground “boxing out “ receivers yet GODWIN catches that if he gets his head around. NOT A VERY INSPIRING, confidence building victory. WE saw the bills being crushed before Hamlin’s collapse, then crushed quickly in the playoff game. So you have a peaking bengals o, going up against our arguably worst back 7 , esp with the cbs looking lost at times and the safeties aging unfortunately. I am not sure what is going on with our d line , but the last two games have not been inspiring regarding finishing plays w a sack , and we are not as talented RIGHt now as the 49er s d line. It is just shaping up as a mismatch and Vegas seems to agree. i just think certain teams/ coaches seem to outscheme , outcoach mcd and the bengals coach seems to fit in as one whose teams mentally seem too come in very confident against the BILLS. Mcd has, outside the fins game and playoff game against the pats, proven multiple times he is capable of having huge collapses and no lead is ever safe given his late game d philosophy. Throw in injuries to the d stars on every level , and I don’t see how the BILLS d will stop Cincy from easily dropping 30 against this d roster on their home field. Perhaps the bills can match them on O , but who has confidence any mcd defense will keep the bengals from scoring if they have the ball and need a score to win? We easily could have lost both the giants/bucs game and did lose to a horrible pats team. The bengals , with a fully healthy BURROWS at home, are no pats , as he just went 28/32. So , while i can always hope for a BILLS win, mcd needs to prove he is up to it and I’m sorry, but he rarely outperforms good coaches, with the bengals staff already advancing further than a mcd coached team has. Throw in missing Milano, Daquan, white, von not anywhere close to being someone needed to be game planned for , and at this point i expect a game similar to the playoffs with the bengals out quick and the BILLS trying to catch up. Maybe mcd will show up for once , but now he has too much influence on the bills players psyche , I don’t see them playing with the enthusiasm /energy /passion they used to have. Most stats for the bills have regressed in the second quarter of the season as a basis for this reasoning. Bills coming out with a win seems like a big task. Sadly, I can't disagree with a whole lot of what you said. Some blunt honest truth here. 4 hours ago, benderbender said: I meant to ask Joe Marino of Locked on Bills to ask Dr Kyle Trimble of Banged Up Bills what the odds of recurrence were on Delayed Onset Emotional Exhaustion. I figured it could only happen once a season but who knows. It can happen for sure. It's like going back to the crime scene as a victim. 4 hours ago, PBF81 said: We'll have to agree to disagree. Skylar Thompson, plain and simple, in one of his first few starts, in Buffalo, snow, etc. 412 Yards and 30 1st-Downs in a perfectly balanced offense (240 passing, 172 rushing) vs. Cincy which was also Cincy's best offensive playoff performance under Burrow. 552 & 30 1st-Downs to KC. Two of their biggest three offensive playoff games were against us, and once vs. our vaunted #1 Defense which was the Chiefs best playoff game offensively under Mahomes. So yeah, it was the D. 472 Yards and 27 1st-Downs to a 9th ranked Indy offense led by Rivers and worse WRs than we have after Diggs and Davis, in Indy's only playoff game over the past 4 seasons. "13 Seconds" But if you think that's good, that's fine. I don't. Again, agree to disagree. I mean it's pretty much known in the football world that the Bills playoff defense gets exposed. That's why Fraizer got fired despite his great regular season stats. Quote
newcam2012 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, PBF81 said: The Baltimore game is fair, but we wouldn't have made it there w/o going through Indy first, and Baltimore's O was essentially a one-man show. Tennessee and their 24th ranked D held 'em to 20 points the week prior. The Ravens haven't scored more than 20 PPG in the playoffs in any of their 5 playoff games dating back to 2018. So while good, consider the O there. The NE game was another solid D effort, but consider their offense with Mac Jones as a rookie. The overall argument was that we're focusing too much on our defensive injury woes right now. Groot and AJE have come on, Floyd was signed to backup Miller and has done about what Miller did last year through the same number of games. Our LB issues are because of McBeane and that's the way they wanted it. This team should be focused around it's Allen-led offense first and foremost. We've put so many expensive resources into the D, because that's what McD knows, but nowhere near the same level into the offense. The point was also that it's our offense that has determined how far we advance, or in the case of "13 Seconds," simply revealing a cataclysmic failure in the D preventing it. We have the offensive talent to be doing much much better than we are. We obviously, as many of us see it, don't have the right person at the helm of this rig. Otherwise we'd be realizing that offensive powerhouse aspect. I mean seriously, not even 21 PPG over the past four games, ... and we're talking about against the currently 6th, 10th, 23rd, and 26th defenses, not the Ravens, Cowboys, and Niners. Great post. Clear as day this regime is failing to take full advantage of their elite QB. For years, they have failed to solidify an above average oline, have a merry go round of WRs 3/4/5 that haven't produced, failed to establish an effective and consistent run game, lacks explosive weapons and speed, and hired an unknown rookie OC that was and is learning on the job as the team was is focused to make a SB run. The defensive minded coach has taken over the defensive duties. Can't help to think the offensive side of the ball is being somewhat neglected by him. It's by default almost. The Bills offense has failed to take off to the next level. It mostly a failure of the Bills regime. Many fail to see this because Allen and his eliteness puts up numbers. Thus, the offensive stats looks very good. Edited October 31, 2023 by newcam2012 1 Quote
PBF81 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: I mean it's pretty much known in the football world that the Bills playoff defense gets exposed. That's why Fraizer got fired despite his great regular season stats. Interesting that you say that. It would be foolish to think that McD didn't have a heavy hand in that D. He was a very average DC in Carolina, making it an odds on proposition that it was going to get worse this season. He's bitten off way more than he can chew. Sometimes egos, ambition, and desire for control work against the person behind it. 1 Quote
newcam2012 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: Interesting that you say that. It would be foolish to think that McD didn't have a heavy hand in that D. He was a very average DC in Carolina, making it an odds on proposition that it was going to get worse this season. He's bitten off way more than he can chew. Sometimes egos, ambition, and desire for control work against the person behind it. Agree 100%. I was so glad he took over the defense because now he can't hide. I'm starting to think the fan base is seeing that McD isn't untouchable. Soon they might see he's only slightly above average and can do better. Quote
PBF81 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Agree 100%. I was so glad he took over the defense because now he can't hide. I'm starting to think the fan base is seeing that McD isn't untouchable. Soon they might see he's only slightly above average and can do better. And in fairness, if he can at least take us to a Super Bowl and win it, or if he loses it, not losing it as a result of a "13 Seconds" or other type of coaching blunder, then great. If not however, then most people are going to appropriately be asking whether he's reached his ceiling as a HC. If we can't make the playoffs, then the question will have answered itself. Quote
newcam2012 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, PBF81 said: And in fairness, if he can at least take us to a Super Bowl and win it, or if he loses it, not losing it as a result of a "13 Seconds" or other type of coaching blunder, then great. If not however, then most people are going to appropriately be asking whether he's reached his ceiling as a HC. If we can't make the playoffs, then the question will have answered itself. Agree. I think we both know how this is likely going to play out. Just feels like the Bills organization will spin it's wheels with McD for a few more years. The spinning started a couple of years ago and I have a headache. This is starting to feel like another disappointing end to a season. Only this time, I think it comes much earlier than expected. If Ben Johnson can make Geoff look this good imagine what he could do with Allen. If he can make David Montgomery look like an all pro imagine how good the Bills running game could be. Instead, the Bills are staying the course with a defensive coach who continues to fall short and lack offensive weapons, creativity, and explosiveness. I'll continue to bang the drum for change because I firmly believe that's the best chance to bring a Lombardi to Buffalo. Edited October 31, 2023 by newcam2012 1 Quote
PBF81 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Agree. I think we both know how this is likely going to play out. Just feels like the Bills organization will spin it's wheels with McD for a few more years. The spinning started a couple of years ago and I have a headache. This is starting to feel like another disappointing end to a season. Only this time, I think it comes much earlier than expected. If Ben Johnson can make Geoff look this good imagine what he could do with Allen. If he can make David Montgomery look like an all pro imagine how good the Bills running game could be. Instead, the Bills are staying the course with a defensive coach who continues to fall short and lack offensive weapons, creativity, and explosiveness. I'll continue to bang the drum for change because I firmly believe that's the best chance to bring a Lombardi to Buffalo. A lot of people now see McD's issues, which are multiple. The national media is now involved which means that it's going to be difficult for him to hide or use scapegoats. He also can't possibly have more control over this team, reasonably anyway, than he does now. He's got more game-day control over it than most coaches throughout history. All we do is talk about it, nothing we can do one way or the other. Pegula's ultimately going to have to get involved, and as the concern was for giving both McD & Beane extensions beyond this season without first waiting, wisely, for say at least this half season to have passed before making that decision, that risk side of this high-risk decision-making team has also played out. They haven't even entered year one of that extension. If things don't improve, Pegula's going to have a tough decision that risks him looking incompetent. And on that side of the tracks he probably is, judging by some of his past decisions. But here's the thing, he's got PSLs to sell now on top of roughly twice the cost for Tix. Those prices are going to make the current ticket costs look like Dollar General discounts. If he had to sell those with teams from the drought years, ... LOL. If this team starts sliding and becomes more dysfunctional and disarrayed than it already is, good luck to him. Many long-time STHs have already said adios here, and that was assuming that we didn't have the issues we now have. Let's see how the season plays out. I have stated mo several times that I'd rather see us struggle to get a wild-card, get hot then, and win the SB, than to get the #1 seed and pull a typical playoffs McD, losing because our D didn't show up anyway. This crying in our soup about our injuries on D when our offense is running on 5 of 8 cylinders is ridiculous. We can do it with the D that's on the field right now if the offense is properly run, which is presently far from the case. If w keep playing as we are however, we may not even finish with a winning record. It will be interesting from several vantage points as the season goes on as well as afterwards. All we can do now is hope for the best. All that most of us want is one Lombardi! Just one! Edited October 31, 2023 by PBF81 1 1 Quote
newcam2012 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, PBF81 said: A lot of people now see McD's issues, which are multiple. The national media is now involved which means that it's going to be difficult for him to hide or use scapegoats. He also can't possibly have more control over this team, reasonably anyway, than he does now. He's got more game-day control over it than most coaches throughout history. All we do is talk about it, nothing we can do one way or the other. Pegula's ultimately going to have to get involved, and as the concern was for giving both McD & Beane extensions beyond this season without first waiting, wisely, for say at least this half season to have passed before making that decision, that risk side of this high-risk decision-making team has also played out. They haven't even entered year one of that extension. If things don't improve, Pegula's going to have a tough decision that risks him looking incompetent. And on that side of the tracks he probably is, judging by some of his past decisions. But here's the thing, he's got PSLs to sell now on top of roughly twice the cost for Tix. Those prices are going to make the current ticket costs look like Dollar General discounts. If he had to sell those with teams from the drought years, ... LOL. If this team starts sliding and becomes more dysfunctional and disarrayed than it already is, good luck to him. Many long-time STHs have already said adios here, and that was assuming that we didn't have the issues we now have. Let's see how the season plays out. I have stated mo several times that I'd rather see us struggle to get a wild-card, get hot then, and win the SB, than to get the #1 seed and pull a typical playoffs McD, losing because our D didn't show up anyway. This crying in our soup about our injuries on D when our offense is running on 5 of 8 cylinders is ridiculous. We can do it with the D that's on the field right now if the offense is properly run, which is presently far from the case. If w keep playing as we are however, we may not even finish with a winning record. It will be interesting from several vantage points as the season goes on as well as afterwards. All we can do now is hope for the best. All that most of us want is one Lombardi! Just one! Very well said! I couldn't agree more especially with the one Lombardi Trophy. 1 1 Quote
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