Week 9 thread - We’re on to Cincinnati

[Pete]

Playing Poyer had LB is brilliant.  It helps offset Milano a little, and gives us a match up cover LB that hits like a Mack truck

[Commish]

Not worth a new thread, but I loved this analysis of Allen:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpTSrmbFyTk

[BuffaloMatt]

I love being the underdog today. National media is all in on Cincy. No one is picking the Bills in any capacity and I too think this is a bad matchup for the Bills. That said, I am drawn back to Thanksgiving versus Dallas. It has got that feel.. . . No one picked the Bills to win.  . . no one. They did, it was Josh's national coming out party, and tonite feels eerily similar to me. Go Bills! 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

[Simon]

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So I called him out on their message board after he said that 99% of tbd thinks we should’ve been undefeated 2 years in a row.  He also said that TBD thinks that Skylar Thompson is a great QB. 
 

he got so butt hurt that he slid into my DM’s and continued with his mature responses

 

For the love of god, enough of this bullshlt. This is the game week thread and nobody wants to read it in here.

I already had to spend a bunch of time last night cleaning out pages of this nonsense.

There are 4-5 of you that need to put each other on ignore and be done with it. Either that or take it to private messaging.

Just keep the repetitive personal drama out of here, please.

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

I agree, but I can understand not having 2 new LB'S out there. Especially this game. Being in some close games, I think McD was smart to play it the way he has. Need a couple of blowout games to get him some extra snaps.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

7 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I agree, but I can understand not having 2 new LB'S out there. Especially this game. Being in some close games, I think McD was smart to play it the way he has. Need a couple of blowout games to get him some extra snaps.

Eh at this point Bernard is fine. This guy is better than Edmunds was in year 4 already. Let it rip

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Didn't Poyer take a couple bad angles in preseason (I know, who cares) and in the first game or two prior to the injury? Now, characterizing a defender's "bad angle" can also be the result of hesitance, false steps, and/or a lack of footspeed/range (which you explicitly recognize in your post).

 

I recall seeing Hyde being more active in the box and coming downhill at the beginning of the season, and I wonder if that means Poyer was playing the deeper role more often, which would have then really shined a light on his diminished range? Therefore, this recent adjustment to him explicitly lining up on the 2nd level would be a way to reduce the space he has to cover, allowing him to leverage his instincts while mitigating his diminished speed?

 

Yeah, I agree, Poyer playing deep would highlight any decrease in speed/range, and I've had the thought that lining up closer to the LOS may help him maximize what he's got left.

 

But Boyst is right it also physically punishes and takes a toll on the body - something Poyer has never shied away from.

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloMatt said:

I love being the underdog today. National media is all in on Cincy. No one is picking the Bills in any capacity and I too think this is a bad matchup for the Bills. That said, I am drawn back to Thanksgiving versus Dallas. It has got that feel.. . . No one picked the Bills to win.  . . no one. They did, it was Josh's national coming out party, and tonite feels eerily similar to me. Go Bills! 

 

May you be right!

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[26TrapDraw]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, I agree, Poyer playing deep would highlight any decrease in speed/range, and I've had the thought that lining up closer to the LOS may help him maximize what he's got left.

 

But Boyst is right it also physically punishes and takes a toll on the body - something Poyer has never shied away from.

 

 

May you be right!

 

Same as Miami a few weeks ago. No one Gave the Bills a chance . We smoked the fish. Josh gets up for Big Games. Let’s hope the rest of the team can too. Personally I’d love for Josh to remind the Media that they don’t know *****.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

 

There are different levels of "growing pains", though.  There's "guy gets it 90% of the time and makes mistakes/whiffs 10%" and maybe you live with that.  Then there's "you can see the wheels spinning and sometimes, the hamster is dead, and the wheel's still spinning, and he's chasing the play habitually". 

 

At that latter point, you not only hamstring your own D, you potentially destroy the player's confidence in himself and set him back.  Belicheck made him dance. I can't tell where Williams is there, but the coaches who watch film with him and see him in practice know.  Contrary to what some posters here believe, McDermott doesn't have any blanket prejudice against rookies where he won't play them even though they're marvelous.

 

I thought Bernard sucked because of how bad he looked vs the Jets last season, and then he never got back on the field.  I was "uh-oh, waste of a pick".  I'm not the only one either.  Turns out, Beane and McDermott knew something.  So I'm not going to quarrel with however they decide to use Williams.

 

As an MLB, he was clearly struggling mentally and getting sucked into play action, but he can thump as a tackler, and right now he and Bernard have about the same % of missed tackles. That's all I'll say, as I don't want to do "famous last words"

 

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

 

@HappyDays said the Bills were doing medical work on Suh and someone else as DTs, but now that Joseph has been signed I expect that's been dropped. 

 

People are always wanting to keep adding at one or another position, but they don't necessarily figure out who to cut or how to keep balance on the roster.  Example, a couple weeks ago someone wanted to add Isabella to the active roster and cut Poona Ford.  Now we need Poona Ford.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

There are different levels of "growing pains", though.  There's "guy gets it 90% of the time and makes mistakes/whiffs 10%" and maybe you live with that.  Then there's "you can see the wheels spinning and sometimes, the hamster is dead, and the wheel's still spinning, and he's chasing the play habitually". 

 

At that latter point, you not only hamstring your own D, you potentially destroy the player's confidence in himself and set him back.  Belicheck made him dance. I can't tell where Williams is there, but the coaches who watch film with him and see him in practice know.  Contrary to what some posters here believe, McDermott doesn't have any blanket prejudice against rookies where he won't play them even though they're marvelous.

 

I thought Bernard sucked because of how bad he looked vs the Jets last season, and then he never got back on the field.  I was "uh-oh, waste of a pick".  I'm not the only one either.  Turns out, Beane and McDermott knew something.  So I'm not going to quarrel with however they decide to use Williams.

 

As an MLB, he was clearly struggling mentally and getting sucked into play action, but he can thump as a tackler, and right now he and Bernard have about the same % of missed tackles. That's all I'll say, as I don't want to do "famous last words"

Maybe if the guy we were replacing him with wasn’t so blah. This guy truthfully doesn’t even belong on the active roster IMO. If Dodson was capable of almost doing anything ever, I’d be fine with it. I get it, you are replacing the best player on our Defense and anyone is going to look bad. But when Williams is out there he’s capable of playing at modern NFL speed. Milano is a monster, I’m not asking anyone to be him. But Dodson is like he’s running in cement. Then the guy doesn’t even hit anyone. If you are a plotting LB that has almost no quickness, you better be blowing guys off their feet when you hit them. The guy is just neither somehow. I’d almost prefer Klein

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Maybe if the guy we were replacing him with wasn’t so blah. This guy truthfully doesn’t even belong on the active roster IMO. If Dodson was capable of almost doing anything ever, I’d be fine with it. I get it, you are replacing the best player on our Defense and anyone is going to look bad. But when Williams is out there he’s capable of playing at modern NFL speed. Milano is a monster, I’m not asking anyone to be him. But Dodson is like he’s running in cement. Then the guy doesn’t even hit anyone. If you are a plotting LB that has almost no quickness, you better be blowing guys off their feet when you hit them. The guy is just neither somehow. I’d almost prefer Klein

 

Dude, at this point you're essentially repeating "I don't like Dodson, Dodson bad" multiple times with no rationale to back it up.  And clearly nothing anyone could present in the way of actual analysis would persuade you.

 

So, have fun with that!

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude, at this point you're essentially repeating "I don't like Dodson, Dodson bad" multiple times with no rationale to back it up.  And clearly nothing anyone could present in the way of actual analysis would persuade you.

 

So, have fun with that!

The rationale is he has been beaten out by almost every LB on the roster since the day he’s been here. He never makes plays, can’t run, isn’t helpful against the run or pass truthfully. Not really good at anything required to play the position and should be a STs only guy. What do you want me to give you tangibly about a rotational backup LB? He makes zero impact plays. You want PFF grades? I mean all those things are subjective. Idk what to say, watch the game. The guy sucks. It’s not the end of the world. All I’m saying is id prefer the guy with athleticism if the replacement is pedestrian. Don’t really feel like it’s out of line tbh.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[hondo in seattle]

17 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Except that several "film room guys" and a coach have broken down play after play and shown that Allen in fact has alternatives on many (not all) plays

 

Yeah, I'm aware.

 

I watched the O'Sullivan breakdown and was kind of amazed at how - even after 50 years of watching football - how much I don't know or don't notice.  It was humbling.  

 

Though it's still not wrong for me to give the OC some of the credit when an offense is humming and some of the blame when it's not.  It is, after all, his job to make it hum.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Though it's still not wrong for me to give the OC some of the credit when an offense is humming and some of the blame when it's not.  It is, after all, his job to make it hum.  

 

I can agree with that. 

 

The point I want to put out there is, while Josh rightly gets credit when he makes splendid, improvisational, "2 guys in the league could make that throw" plays....the OC does not always deserve blame for "not scheming open alternatives".  Sometimes Josh is going off-schedule because he has to.  Sometimes he's not, there is an easier play he could make within the design of the play.  I would guesstimate it at 2/3 but that's totally a SWAG

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The rationale is he has been beaten out by almost every LB on the roster since the day he’s been here. He never makes plays, can’t run, isn’t helpful against the run or pass truthfully. Not really good at anything required to play the position and should be a STs only guy. What do you want me to give you tangibly about a rotational backup LB? He makes zero impact plays. You want PFF grades? I mean all those things are subjective. Idk what to say, watch the game. The guy sucks. It’s not the end of the world. All I’m saying is id prefer the guy with athleticism if the replacement is pedestrian. Don’t really feel like it’s out of line tbh.

 

Again, this at core is another hyperbolic way of saying "I just really don't like Dodson" but I'll take it on because one aspect interests me.

 

Dodson's first year on the roster was 2020, so this is his 4th year.  He's always been behind Tremaine Edmunds (1st round pick and $8M free agent) and Matt Milano (Guided Missile gaining recognition as one of the best in the league before injury).   So he's a backup.  News flash, if backups were starter quality, they'd likely be starting somewhere else.  He was beaten out by AJ Klein, the savvy vet steeped in McDermott's defense, in 2020.  Also fair point.

 

That doesn't mean he "never makes plays, can't run, isn't helpful against the run or pass truthfully" or that "he has been beaten out by almost every LB  on the roster since the day he's been here". 

In his time here he has beaten out by  players on the roster for 1 or more games (not counting camp and preseason guys)

2020 Andre Smith (7th round), Del'Shawn Phillips (UDFA), Darron Lee (1st), Deon Lacy (UDFA).  He also starts ahead of Tyler Matakevich, who is here as ST.

2021 Joe Giles-Harris (UDFA) and still, Tyler Matakevich, who is here as ST.

2022 Baylon Spector, Terrel Bernard (Bernard started the Jets game and flamed out, Dodson then got snaps at Minnesota Cleveland and Detroit)

 

And that's not counting the guys who never made it out of training camp or off the practice squad.

 

Guys who can't run can't hit and never make plays can't play ST either.  They'd be replaced by STers who can run, can hit, and can tackle.  In his start against Pittsburgh last season, Dodson had 11 tackles.  Start against Cleveland, 13.  Not too shabby for a guy who can't run, hit, and never makes plays.

 

It's fine to prefer the guy with athletic upside and potential over the known factor who isn't long-term starter quality, but in the exaggerated form you're making your point, it's a bad take.  I'd love it if the coaches saw Williams as at a point where he can play himself into improvement, but they don't.

 

You're not alone; it's a TBD tradition to anoint a whipping boy and start banging the drum for a rookie who's on the depth chart behind him.  Next step is imputations of some broad-sweeping policy (McDermott won't play rookies even if they're clearly better in every way) or some conspiracy type theory. 

 

There's always a handful who get all "I'm 100% smarter than our stupid coaches who get paid the big bucks to evaluate and train up football players".  

 

Congratulations on joining that crowd and I'll leave you to it.

 

 

 

[julian]

With the Dolphins losing to another good team the season is there for the taking for Allen and the Bills.

 

 With a big game and win in prime time tonight Allen can put himself atop the MVP race and have his team back into 1st in the division and very much in the one seed hunt.

[DuckyBoys]

Rasul needs to be active  If a 35 yard old corner can come be active right off the couch than Douglas can play right away

[Warriorspikes51]

9 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

HappyDays who has a proven record of breaking news with roster moves, injuries, etc said his source told him Suh & Matt loannidis would both be made official after taking their physicals.

 

(I assume Suh to 53 and Matt L to PS)

If we were going to be bringing in both of them, I’m hoping it means we’ll still sign Suh next week

 

maybe Linval Joseph had multiple teams after him and then decided on the Bills?

 

perhaps Suh is waiting to see how we perform against Cincy before coming?

I’d see Suh as an upgrade to Tim Settle.

 

Oliver

Joseph

Suh

Phillips

Ford

Edited November 5, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[first_and_ten]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:52 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

With 2K posts, this isn't your first time on a message board.  

Why do you care to defend him this much?  I could turn my off switch as much as you can turn your off to me right?

 

Do you think this is worth continuing?  I don't and should stop derailing this thread which I have done enough.

 

With 2K posts, I'm  not on this message board a lot. I do care to defend a person's right to post, as long as it's not defamatory. You do have the right to complain about another poster. But, as stated, why do you care? Why does his posts affect you so much? You're borderline whining, which is in itself annoying.