Week 9 thread - We’re on to Cincinnati

[Not at the table Karlos]

17 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Skyline all the way. Medium 4-way with beans and a diet Doctor Pepper. BTW, Cincinnati is the only place in the world where you can get a kids 3-way in a drive-thru.

I just threw up in my mouth. The taste of it  brought back memories of eating at skyline. Threw up again. I'm trying to think of a "food"(I can't seriously call skyline food) that is worse than it but I can't. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

 

I simply don’t buy the Dorsey criticism, and the primary reason for that is that ALL fan bases criticize their playcaller and the Bills have one of the top offenses in the league.  This is going to sound a bit strange because I love Josh Allen more than any other player I’ve ever watched, but I think it’s fair to say Allen creates more of the “problems” on offense than Dorsey does.  I put the word “problems” in quotes because often Allen makes an amazing play, but I think he goes off schedule and looks for “more” too much.  I also don’t think Dorsey and McD have told Josh not to run…he has made that decision himself because everyone else keeps hammering at it.

 

I am really hoping that the offense we saw against Tampa is what we’ll continue to see as the season wears on…if that happens we are going to be just fine.  There’s nothing wrong with how Dorsey is calling games.

 

There is at times. But the issues with the offense are a combination of things. Not just Dorsey or just Josh. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I’m thinking about driving to the game.  Its about a 7 hour drive from Atlanta.

 

Its either that or transplant shrubs during the day.

 

I’m not sure what sounds more appealing.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

I simply don’t buy the Dorsey criticism, and the primary reason for that is that ALL fan bases criticize their playcaller and the Bills have one of the top offenses in the league.  This is going to sound a bit strange because I love Josh Allen more than any other player I’ve ever watched, but I think it’s fair to say Allen creates more of the “problems” on offense than Dorsey does.  I put the word “problems” in quotes because often Allen makes an amazing play, but I think he goes off schedule and looks for “more” too much.  I also don’t think Dorsey and McD have told Josh not to run…he has made that decision himself because everyone else keeps hammering at it.

 

I am really hoping that the offense we saw against Tampa is what we’ll continue to see as the season wears on…if that happens we are going to be just fine.  There’s nothing wrong with how Dorsey is calling games.

 

How many easy throws do we see week after week from other teams, with receivers wide open.  Swear it is way more then Buffalo.  

 

AJ Brown weekly makes highlight reel catches.  I can't think one from a Bills receiver this year. 

 

When was the last time you saw a Bills receiver win a 50/50 ball or catch one with a defender draped all over him.

 

Oh and let's not forget Dorsey's inability to set up a decent screen or YAC.

[Rockinon]

I think Josh needs to run, get that adrenaline flowing. When he is trying to simply be a pocket passer all game, he looks lethargic, like he's bored. Josh is so much better with his hair on fire. This is true of many athletes. That edge that you get when both your mind and body is jacked up on an adrenaline rush is what he needs. Saw signs of that last week. Hoping to see more of that this week.

[TheWei44]

26 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I think Josh needs to run, get that adrenaline flowing. When he is trying to simply be a pocket passer all game, he looks lethargic, like he's bored. Josh is so much better with his hair on fire. This is true of many athletes. That edge that you get when both your mind and body is jacked up on an adrenaline rush is what he needs. Saw signs of that last week. Hoping to see more of that this week.

Like many things in life, he needs to be balanced but not too balanced!

[K-9]

40 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I think Josh needs to run, get that adrenaline flowing. When he is trying to simply be a pocket passer all game, he looks lethargic, like he's bored. Josh is so much better with his hair on fire. This is true of many athletes. That edge that you get when both your mind and body is jacked up on an adrenaline rush is what he needs. Saw signs of that last week. Hoping to see more of that this week.

There’s a fine line between playing with an edge and playing out of control. I’m all for Josh being Josh and playing with that edge, but he needs to do that in the context of letting the game come to him instead of forcing things. 

[Rockinon]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

There’s a fine line between playing with an edge and playing out of control. I’m all for Josh being Josh and playing with that edge, but he needs to do that in the context of letting the game come to him instead of forcing things. 

True, but I do believe that some of these games, they have overcompensated. Forced Josh to be a traditional pocket passer a bit too much. He was in his head a bit too much instead of leaving it all out there on the field with some RPOs and scrambling. I hated RPO's last year because it seemed they did it to much, but you are correct, it certainly a balancing act.

[Since1981]

You can’t stop Josh from his nature and some run.
Josh is THE Bills super power.

 

Forcing and even telegraphing “pocket only” to opponents?  Like McDummy’s Army PR telling ISIS land, sea, air, plan beforehand. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Since1981

[Caesar]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What saves your defense is turnovers. You give up a lot of yards but get a lot of turnovers.  Our Defense has been like that... let the other team keep driving the whole field for a lot of yards but then either get a turnover before the score or stop the TD and make them kick fgs.  Thats what your D is right now I think, but I haven't watched too many Bengals games.

 

Our defense has ALWAYS given up yards.  2021 and 2022 as well, it is a Lou thing, "only points matter, not yards".  

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I simply don’t buy the Dorsey criticism, and the primary reason for that is that ALL fan bases criticize their playcaller and the Bills have one of the top offenses in the league.  This is going to sound a bit strange because I love Josh Allen more than any other player I’ve ever watched, but I think it’s fair to say Allen creates more of the “problems” on offense than Dorsey does.  I put the word “problems” in quotes because often Allen makes an amazing play, but I think he goes off schedule and looks for “more” too much.  I also don’t think Dorsey and McD have told Josh not to run…he has made that decision himself because everyone else keeps hammering at it.

 

I am really hoping that the offense we saw against Tampa is what we’ll continue to see as the season wears on…if that happens we are going to be just fine.  There’s nothing wrong with how Dorsey is calling games.

 

 

Some truth here.  Allen creates problems by working outside the design of the play "off schedule" as you say.  He also creates plays.  It's a double-edged sword, and there needs to be a balance, No Doubt. 

 

Did you watch that assessment of the Tampa game by JT O'Sullivan?  There were a couple of plays where O'Sullivan pointed out the first read or the appropriate hot read being an easy short throw to a wide-open guy.  It was there.  Allen would fail to take that and go for a much higher degree of difficulty, in one case rolling to the left on the run and signalling Kincaid what to do - "a legitimately awesome play by Josh Allen" 

 

He made the throw, but Kincaid is pretty well covered with a safety over the top converging, and Allen throws a dime which Kincaid brings down with a brilliant double-toe stretch to catch it in bounds.   O'Sullivan points out the play is mesh routes with a rail and a hook route, and the first read is usually the rail route because the mesh route kind of forces defenders to interfere with each other to cover the back.  Murray is WIIIIDE open "if you throw it to 28 right there, it's an easy first down". 

 

As O'Sullivan says, "Josh Allen can do this stuff, but don't come at me sideways when he does this stuff when it matters most, and it doesn't work out".   

 

I don't have the all-22 to look at, but Bengals playoff game, first series after Cincy drove down the field for 7, 3rd and 4, Allen overthrows a deep left sideline throw to Diggs on 3rd and 4, and it's 3 and out.  It would not shock me to learn it was a similar route concept and Singletary or Cook were Wiiiiiide open down the rt sideline for an easy "move the chains".  When we're facing a very good offense which can score on every drive and we have to match them, when the conditions are sub-par so that little slips by Josh and little slips by the WR add up, when we're facing a top secondary who can react better and turn those plays into picks - Press the "Easy" Button, Josh.  It's there.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Caesar said:

 

Our defense has ALWAYS given up yards.  2021 and 2022 as well, it is a Lou thing, "only points matter, not yards".  

 

Let me express, I thought it was a damned shame Anarumo wasn't offered a HC job somewhere else this off season - preferably in the NFC 😁

 

That's a valid point and McDermott falls rather into the same category - worries far more about points than yards.

 

That said, historically, when a defense has a big difference between points and yards given up, it usually means turnovers are a factor.  The Bengals 2022 defense was actually very well matched in points and yards - 7th and 8th.  2021, 7th and 13th, not a huge disparity.  So they actually WEREN'T giving up disproportionate yards 2021 and 2022.

 

This season to date the Bengals D has collected 13 turnovers, 4th in the league, and that probably goes a ways to explain how they're 27th in yards given up but 17th for points.  Meanwhile your offense is very clean, only 6 turnovers all season which is 2nd in the leage.

 

TL;DR @Scott7975 has a point.

 

1 hour ago, Rockinon said:

I think Josh needs to run, get that adrenaline flowing. When he is trying to simply be a pocket passer all game, he looks lethargic, like he's bored. Josh is so much better with his hair on fire. This is true of many athletes. That edge that you get when both your mind and body is jacked up on an adrenaline rush is what he needs. Saw signs of that last week. Hoping to see more of that this week.

 

I think there's a point there.  Josh has said in interviews "Sometimes I need a little contact"

Edited November 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I think there's a point there.  Josh has said in interviews "Sometimes I need a little contact"

 

Sure is and that is true.  I used to say that Josh gets better after he takes off for a run and gets hit.  I still feel that is true.  More so though, I think it opens the defense up when they know he is a threat to run.  Last week was like the first time this season that was true.

[Pokebball]

4 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

I simply don’t buy the Dorsey criticism, and the primary reason for that is that ALL fan bases criticize their playcaller and the Bills have one of the top offenses in the league.  This is going to sound a bit strange because I love Josh Allen more than any other player I’ve ever watched, but I think it’s fair to say Allen creates more of the “problems” on offense than Dorsey does.  I put the word “problems” in quotes because often Allen makes an amazing play, but I think he goes off schedule and looks for “more” too much.  I also don’t think Dorsey and McD have told Josh not to run…he has made that decision himself because everyone else keeps hammering at it.

 

I am really hoping that the offense we saw against Tampa is what we’ll continue to see as the season wears on…if that happens we are going to be just fine.  There’s nothing wrong with how Dorsey is calling games.

 

We know Dorsey and McDermott have told Allen not to run, don't we? We've heard them both say it, publicly.

[Caesar]

Ok, which one of you guys is this gentleman?   Even as a Bengals fan I had to watch the entire song, he is really good.
 

 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

We know Dorsey and McDermott have told Allen not to run, don't we? We've heard them both say it, publicly.

 

No, they've said he needs to be careful with his body...that's not the same thing.

 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

We know Dorsey and McDermott have told Allen not to run, don't we? We've heard them both say it, publicly.

 

I think what they've both said is that they want him to take fewer hits.  They want him to go out of bounds or slide. 

 

The problem, as Beane has phrased it, is that when Josh runs and takes a few hits, he gets "lathered up" and competitive, and won't do that.

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

No, they've said he needs to be careful with his body...that's not the same thing.

 

OK

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Caesar said:

 

Our defense has ALWAYS given up yards.  2021 and 2022 as well, it is a Lou thing, "only points matter, not yards".  

Yeah, thats pretty much how our D is. I've become fine with it.  As long as they stop most of the TDs.  It's when things like "13 seconds" happen that it bothers me or our game against the Pats a couple weeks ago.

[boyst]

I have been keeping tabs on this and surprised so many here hate the Bengals. I don't. They'll be irrelevant in 2 years when they can't afford and won't pay anyone. They're just a pimple, they won't be around forever.

 

However, the city of Cincinnati is loathed. They're so freaking trashy there. They have one entity which props up the entire city, Proctor and Gamble and then they have the mafia to help inflate everything (the IRS). They don't have much pride, always wishing they were as cool as even Cleveland or crying about the shadow of the Cbus. Hell, Cincinnati is just Lorain with more people.

 

Anyone I have met from Cinci might as well be a hillbilly from Kentucky. They have more in common with those folks than what is truly the heart of America.