JT O'Sullivan QB School Video Breakdown of Allen in Week 8 against TB - some very interesting points

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I run the coverage you’re referring to and it’s not played the way you think it’s played. If you’d like we can go to PMs and I can teach it to you. Like I said I think you’re reading stuff and getting confused because everything that gets talked about in those aren’t diagramed.

 

Obviously go to PM’s if you feel it’s more appropriate, but I wish you’d consider to stay here as I think others of us would like to learn it.  I think there are some others who feel the same (and some who’ll be bored, but they can just scroll on by)

Edited October 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[Rat-boy]

I don’t post here much and haven’t over the 20+ years, but I think it’s lovely to have posters discussing these technical details.
 

Please do keep it here, as I  think there are plenty of readers who enjoy learning rather than scroll through pages of “Fire X”, “Bench Y” rants.

[HoofHearted]

 

@Einstein Here's your 3x1 adjustments in Saban's Rip/Liz coverages straight from the playbook so you'll believe me. Against 3x1 the overhang to the single side has 4 out (the RB) to 1st crosser. So in the case of the play we saw from the Bills game Cook would have been the overhang's 4 out. The inside backer would have been the final three player and would have carried Diggs and the boundary corner would have punched high when 1 ran mesh because he is playing MOD. The corner would have picked up Shakir if it was in fact Cover 3. Since the overhang didn't pick up Cook and the backside inside backer didn't pick up the final 3 (plus all of the stuff I covered to the trips side in regards to them playing Special) we know they were not in a Cover 3 call.

[Buffalo716]

On 10/28/2023 at 11:20 PM, Beck Water said:

I just popped in to post this link - JT O'Sullivan did another Youtube on Baker Mayfield in this game, which I found fascinating from the POV of what did and what didn't work, in the Bills defensive coverage.

 

Check it out.

 

 

And I'll see if I can find the pre-snap look, because I'm finding the discussion of the Tampa coverage on that deep throw to Shakir fascinating. 

Thanks fellas!

 

 

 

Presnap Look on the play in question

 

 

@HoofHearted with the 3x1 set I can see banjo coverage on the boundary and the quarters between the overhang and safety 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Freddie's Dead]

I really enjoyed watching this video analysis by O'Sullivan.  Learned a lot about alerts, darts, mesh concepts, etc.  He showed how the shotgun run we all hate sets up a quick RPO passing game that is a thing of beauty when it's working.  Now if only Dorsey doesn't run it on the 1 inch line....

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 10/29/2023 at 1:25 AM, Einstein said:

 

I disagree.

 

This is what Allen is seeing (photo below). An open Kincaid with a large enough space between Allen and the free rusher to rifle a patented Josh Allen tomahawk missile, despite the tight alley.

 

I truly believe if this same scenario was attempted 10 times in a row, Allen completes at least 8 of them.

 

 

 

 

Winfield jumps in the air and barely gets one hand (maybe even half a hand) on the ball. It was a good play by Winfield, and Allen probably should have just ate the sack, but as mentioned before, he knows he can make it work more times than not.

 

This is a perfect example of how the broadcast angle at full speed really doesn’t tell the whole story. 

[Beck Water]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:59 PM, Buffalo716 said:

@HoofHearted with the 3x1 set I can see banjo coverage on the boundary and the quarters between the overhang and safety 

 

I wish it were easier to put in screenshots.  I have to re-size them and it still seems to limit me to 2

[WideNine]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I wish it were easier to put in screenshots.  I have to re-size them and it still seems to limit me to 2

 

I know right?

 

In a digital world where 2 often means terabyte limit, we still have retro kilobyte limits.

 

All I want for Christmas is to drop an image on TBD without it giving me the finger.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by WideNine

[WideNine]

11 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is a perfect example of how the broadcast angle at full speed really doesn’t tell the whole story. 

 

So true. 

 

Looked in real time like Allen had a brain fart and was trying a stupid move to throw the ball away... 

 

But from the different angle you can see where his eyes went and that he was looking at the check down option.

 

 

[Big Turk]

 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:33 PM, HoofHearted said:

 

@Einstein Here's your 3x1 adjustments in Saban's Rip/Liz coverages straight from the playbook so you'll believe me. Against 3x1 the overhang to the single side has 4 out (the RB) to 1st crosser. So in the case of the play we saw from the Bills game Cook would have been the overhang's 4 out. The inside backer would have been the final three player and would have carried Diggs and the boundary corner would have punched high when 1 ran mesh because he is playing MOD. The corner would have picked up Shakir if it was in fact Cover 3. Since the overhang didn't pick up Cook and the backside inside backer didn't pick up the final 3 (plus all of the stuff I covered to the trips side in regards to them playing Special) we know they were not in a Cover 3 call.

 

Watched another video where a former College and NFL QB(lots of teams, practice squads, etc, no NFL games) and he called the defense "33 Weak"?  It's the first play breakdown in the video and he talks about it for like 5 minutes.

 

Is that something similar to what you are saying?

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Big Turk

[WideNine]

9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

watched another video

 

Watched another video where a former College and NFL QB(lots of teams, practice squads, etc, no NFL games) and he called the defense "33 Weak"?  It's the first play breakdown in the video and he talks about it for like 5 minutes.

 

Is that something similar to what you are saying?

 

 

 

I think what is a bit confusing with the Saban diagram is it showing the defense vs a 2x1 set and the play with Shakir we were in a 3x1 set.

 

Winfield the S drops down into the box and his take was that he was in that overhang defender role. If that were the case Winfield should be heading to the flat and getting the right leverage to cover Cook and then I think the CB at the boundary would be dropping into the deep 3rd.

 

Instead Winfield turns inside at the snap and backpedals to take the mesh receiver on the crossing route leaving that flat and Cook uncovered.

 

The boundary CB seems to have the flat and a bead on Cook all the way so I am not convinced he was supposed to drop deep into a cover 3 zone.

 

So much to learn from diagnosing one play.

 

 

OR... I realized I could have read what HoofHearted posted above for the 3x1 adjustment.

 

😋

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by WideNine

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I really enjoyed watching this video analysis by O'Sullivan.  Learned a lot about alerts, darts, mesh concepts, etc.  He showed how the shotgun run we all hate sets up a quick RPO passing game that is a thing of beauty when it's working.  Now if only Dorsey doesn't run it on the 1 inch line....

Right! let’s just agree RPO inside the 5 is a no go. Let’s do conventional there

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

So true. 

 

Looked in real time like Allen had a brain fart and was trying a stupid move to throw the ball away... 

 

But from the different angle you can see where his eyes went and that he was looking at the check down option.

 

That’s true, but I believe I can see O’Sullivan’s point that if he dropped back a bit more vertical he might have had a better angle to throw around the unblocked rusher

This is the sort of detail I wonder if a QB coach who never played, and 2 inexperienced backups, have the knowledge to bring up with Josh and the cred to be heard.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

This really puts a new perspective on Dorsey and fan expectations, including my own. 

[WideNine]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That’s true, but I believe I can see O’Sullivan’s point that if he dropped back a bit more vertical he might have had a better angle to throw around the unblocked rusher

This is the sort of detail I wonder if a QB coach who never played, and 2 inexperienced backups, have the knowledge to bring up with Josh and the cred to be heard.

 

I think they could and maybe should think about making some changes to the makeup of that QB room this off-season.

 

 

 

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

Watched another video where a former College and NFL QB(lots of teams, practice squads, etc, no NFL games) and he called the defense "33 Weak"?  It's the first play breakdown in the video and he talks about it for like 5 minutes.

 

Is that something similar to what you are saying?

 

 

Seems different to me that he explained. Sounds to me more like the 33 weak is a essentially a cover 3 with the specific indication that they’re in nickle with a rolled safety covering the flat to the weak side of the formation. It looks how he draws it up that the nickle just assumes flat responsibilities to the strength and the boundary corner is deep third. 
 

But as we’ve seen and discussed, Winfield doesn’t take the flat (RB) and instead take the first man that  crosses his face. 
 

Maybe 33 weak is a terminology and the BUCS just play specific match rules to it

[Einstein]

12 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Watched another video where a former College and NFL QB(lots of teams, practice squads, etc, no NFL games) and he called the defense "33 Weak"?  It's the first play breakdown in the video and he talks about it for like 5 minutes.

 

Wow. That NFL QB must be reading my posts in this thread 😉.

 

My hypothesis was Cover 3 Sky.

 

As he said in the video, 33 weak is Cover 3 Sky (but in nickel). 

 

 

Analysts drawing: 

 

 

.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Einstein

[HoofHearted]

20 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I wish it were easier to put in screenshots.  I have to re-size them and it still seems to limit me to 2

Right? That’s my biggest deterrent when I think about making big posts to breakdown schemes etc. I’ve done a few in the past breaking down a single play but it’s a pain in the butt if I want to post more than one image.

[HoofHearted]

19 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

Watched another video where a former College and NFL QB(lots of teams, practice squads, etc, no NFL games) and he called the defense "33 Weak"?  It's the first play breakdown in the video and he talks about it for like 5 minutes.

 

Is that something similar to what you are saying?

 

 

No, he’s just saying he thinks it’s a weak rotation cover 3 which is what @Einstein has been saying. Saban calls it Skate but it follows the same rules as what I posted above to 3x1 sets it’s just the people that change (which is why Saban takes a holistic approach when teaching coverages to his players and uses an X instead of a position during initial install. The rules always stay the same but the people can move). Again though, based on eyes, footwork, and drops, they’re not running Cover 3. They’re in a split safety coverage. 

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Right! let’s just agree RPO inside the 5 is a no go. Let’s do conventional there

We didn’t run any RPO inside the 5 this past week that I recall.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

We didn’t run any RPO inside the 5 this past week that I recall.

And won so good