The Good, The Bad, The Ugly TNF Bucs edition

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The ugly

 

Getting cute on the half inch line by lining up in shotgun and running Murray for a loss instead of just butt shoving it into the EZ. 

 

Jordan Phillips being an absolute ***** idiot. If we didn't need DTs, I'd bench him or cut him RIGHT ***** NOW!!  And then hang up. 

The play calling is bad. McD gets conservative against bad teams. We need to be always looking to score! 

 

It's tough to sack a QB and not get ruffing calls. Phillips hand slid over the helmet. ***** happens. At least there was some hustle there.

 

That said our biggest loss from injury is Jones. He's dominance with Oliver next to him made the back half much better. If we are trading for players, we need to address DT, LB, #2, CB. 

[Chaos]

27 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Good post.  Unfortunately, I don't think you will get a substantive response as to why the team seems to make the same mistakes (or types of mistakes) repeatedly - the responses will be along the lines of "every team wins close games", "this is the NFL" and "look at the point differential".

I like to gamble. My favorite is horse racing. I am horrible at betting horse races though.   One outcome I seem to generate a lot is boxing two horses in an exacta and having one horse win, and the second horse finish third.   This seems so much better than both horses finishing out of the money, but the outcome is the exact same.   
 

i see this similar to the results with the Bills.  For several years they look at feel like a team that should win Super Bowls.  But they go out in divisional round of the playoffs, which feels better than missing the playoffs. But if championships are the goal, it is the same outcome.  This season is a microcosm of that. They look and feel like a dominant 7-1 team. But the reality is they are lucky to be at 5-3.   I love the coaching that makes them look like a 7-1 team. I hate the coaching that makes them lucky to be 5-3.  Same coaches. At some point, if the Bills don’t make it past the divisional round, it seems logical to believe that is as good as it gets. 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

The Good

 

1. The Bills won
2. The team played the beginning of the game as if they were well prepared. They were one odd third down offensive play call away from a perfect start on both sides of the ball. Hopefully this starts a trend
3. Josh Allen was masterful spreading the ball around
4. Shakir, Davis, and Kindcaid all had great games. 
5. Diggs was clutch when he needed to be
6. Benard may never be Dick Butkus, but at his current level of play MLB is not something the Bills need to worry about
7. Solid first three quarters from the defense. 
8. The good outweighed the Bad and the Ugly last night. 

 

The Bad

 

1. Crucial play calls being botched with the same mistakes from past games, particulary being in shotgun on third down at the 8 inch line.  Bills do not have the luxury of leaving points on the board.  
    

The Ugly

 

1. The Bills have a choking problem.  In the past I have said the Bills do not seem to be closers.  But the problem maybe more severe than that. This season, the Bills special teams allowed the first punt return for a TD in an overtime in a number of years.  This is an example of choking. The Bills blew a lead with a less than two minutes left and the Patriots (NFL's worst statistical offense) 75 yards from the end zone. And in one failed to defend screen pass, allowed the Patriots back into the game, and then a horrible effort to actual lose the game. Another choke and a loss.  The game against the Giants was arguably saved on the last play of the game by the a crucial non-call by the refs. But it was a choke for the Giants to even be in that position at that point. And last nights game saw Mike Godwin outchoke the Bills by not seeing/catching the ball on the hail mary.  
   
   Some fans want to pretend these types of blown leads and blown lead situations are typical of NFL close games.  I do not think they are, particularly from teams aspiring to a championship.  Chiefs, Niners, Eagles, all lose games, but I don't think they put themselves in positions to lose the games on the last play in 50% of their games. And then actually lose half of those game.   It is so frustrating.  On the one hand the team seems good enough that it should be 7-1 and in a dominating postion in the AFC East.  But due to this choking issue is 5-3 and in second place.  And two last plays of games away from being 3-5
   
    

Ya i mean that hail mary should've never been attempted if not for the stupid face mask on previous drive

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I like to gamble. My favorite is horse racing. I am horrible at betting horse races though.   One outcome I seem to generate a lot is boxing two horses in an exacta and having one horse win, and the second horse finish third.   This seems so much better than both horses finishing out of the money, but the outcome is the exact same.   
 

i see this similar to the results with the Bills.  For several years they look at feel like a team that should win Super Bowls.  But they go out in divisional round of the playoffs, which feels better than missing the playoffs. But if championships are the goal, it is the same outcome.  This season is a microcosm of that. They look and feel like a dominant 7-1 team. But the reality is they are lucky to be at 5-3.   I love the coaching that makes them look like a 7-1 team. I hate the coaching that makes them lucky to be 5-3.  Same coaches. At some point, if the Bills don’t make it past the divisional round, it seems logical to believe that is as good as it gets. 

Other than the first 3 quarters of last nights game, they haven’t been dominant at all the past 4 weeks.  

[Freddie's Dead]

24 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

It's tough to sack a QB and not get ruffing calls. Phillips hand slid over the helmet. ***** happens. At least there was some hustle there

 

Not really.  He grabbed the facemask and twisted his head around.  Huge dumbass play.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Not really.  He grabbed the facemask and twisted his head around.  Huge dumbass play.

Agreed.  How can a 340 pound DT who’s got a 230lb baker mayfield fully wrapped up not take him to the ground without a penalty?  

[Gunsgoodtime]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

The Good

 

1. The Bills won
2. The team played the beginning of the game as if they were well prepared. They were one odd third down offensive play call away from a perfect start on both sides of the ball. Hopefully this starts a trend
3. Josh Allen was masterful spreading the ball around
4. Shakir, Davis, and Kindcaid all had great games. 
5. Diggs was clutch when he needed to be
6. Benard may never be Dick Butkus, but at his current level of play MLB is not something the Bills need to worry about
7. Solid first three quarters from the defense. 
8. The good outweighed the Bad and the Ugly last night. 

 

The Bad

 

1. Crucial play calls being botched with the same mistakes from past games, particulary being in shotgun on third down at the 8 inch line.  Bills do not have the luxury of leaving points on the board.  
    

The Ugly

 

1. The Bills have a choking problem.  In the past I have said the Bills do not seem to be closers.  But the problem maybe more severe than that. This season, the Bills special teams allowed the first punt return for a TD in an overtime in a number of years.  This is an example of choking. The Bills blew a lead with a less than two minutes left and the Patriots (NFL's worst statistical offense) 75 yards from the end zone. And in one failed to defend screen pass, allowed the Patriots back into the game, and then a horrible effort to actual lose the game. Another choke and a loss.  The game against the Giants was arguably saved on the last play of the game by the a crucial non-call by the refs. But it was a choke for the Giants to even be in that position at that point. And last nights game saw Mike Godwin outchoke the Bills by not seeing/catching the ball on the hail mary.  
   
   Some fans want to pretend these types of blown leads and blown lead situations are typical of NFL close games.  I do not think they are, particularly from teams aspiring to a championship.  Chiefs, Niners, Eagles, all lose games, but I don't think they put themselves in positions to lose the games on the last play in 50% of their games. And then actually lose half of those game.   It is so frustrating.  On the one hand the team seems good enough that it should be 7-1 and in a dominating postion in the AFC East.  But due to this choking issue is 5-3 and in second place.  And two last plays of games away from being 3-5
   
    

What I see is a team with enough talent to be able to make Super Bowl runs, but do not due to coaching

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

There’s a large correlation between a lack of stars on defense and our inability to close out games on defense.

 

It’s not that we are chokers. It’s that our defense is full of average NFL talent.

Agree 100%. That's why it's up to the offense to advance this team further. 

 

All I'm expecting or hoping for the defense is make a key stop or turnover. 

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

What I see is a team with enough talent to be able to make Super Bowl runs, but do not due to coaching

due to end of game turtle coaching.  I actually think mcdermott is very good coach until crunch time.  It’s possible he’s that way because Josh has shown a propensity for some Yolo meltdowns, but we ain’t reaching the mountain top until mcdermott coaches to win at the end of games.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by BuffaloRebound

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, DD4Bills said:

One Ugly that I haven't seen mentioned is the bonehead attempt to run a quick play with time running out of the 3rd quarter.

 

Bills had driven from their own 17 to the Bucs 39 and were moving well. Absolutely no reason to try to catch the Bucs off guard and sneak one play in with time expiring in the 3rd. Taking a 10 yard sack in that situation is inexcusable. Running a play in that situation is inexcusable. From that point on, they gained less than 60 yards and punted THREE TIMES from the Bucs side of the field. If they let time expire, go to the 4th, and take the time to setup a real play, I am convinced that they keep driving for points and this game is over.

Morse/Allen thought that the Bucs were offside, which is why the ball was snapped.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Good

 

- Shakir showed the Bills in the Ravens game last year when they trusted him for two critical catches in the 4th quarter that he can play in this league, and it wasn't until the last two games in 2023 that they decided to use him. You're not taking him off the field now. This is why I had no interest in Renfrow. Develop the guy who ran a 4.43 

 

- All the things that the stupid fans who don't know anything said - up tempo, an Allen designed run 😱, spread formations, not worrying about how well you run the ball, 3 WRs on the field, Allen actually smiling again. 

 

 

The Bad

 

- The mentality of this Head Coach - when you see Deonte Harty that shifty on punt returns, to think putting him on offense would be too much of a burden. To see the 1 catch he got in the Patriots game where he makes 3 people miss, and he doesn't get any snaps on offense? Why can't they get this guy the ball 2-3 times a game? If it's that freaking hard, line him up in the backfield and pitch it to him. Just like Hines, $4M and we can't figure out how to do anything with him other than relegate him to McDermott's Special Team unit, and he'll never escape that role. 

 

- The Bills pass rush is lucky that Baker Mayfield holds the ball forever. Good quarterbacks aren't going to do that. 

 

 

The Ugly 

 

- Bad offensive habits crept back in. On first watch I felt the tempo started to wane after the first half, we ran more trips and stacks and the spacing got tighter and tighter. The spread went away. Shotgun run from the 6" line (still haven't learned our lesson from an earlier game this year)? James Cook on shotgun handoff in the red zone that lost yards (Allen bailed them out the next play). Wimpy Jauron tactics of trying to draw the defense Offside multiple times. 

 

- They were Godwin tracking the ball 2-feet better away from choking that game. The media is treating this as a party, everything is fixed. For all the good that was accomplished, all it was - the opposite of the Jags, Giants and Patriots, this time scored early and held on and escaped. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Southern Bills Fan]

One ugly is the refs picking up the flag after it looked like the Bucs punter swung his helmet at a Bills player after that skirmish.

[zow2]

The ugly:  Josh is our best player but he just cannot stop giving the ball to the other team.  We have to factor that in every game and hope the D can bail em out.

[Mikie2times]

I completely disagree on the choking narrative.

 

What happened in 13 seconds? We didn't put players in the right position to be successful.

 

What happened when we allow a punt return for a TD in week 1? 

What happened when we allow the Giants/Patriots final drives?

What happened on the almost Hail Mary?

 

It's all positioning players to be successful. Which is not easy and it's understandable when it doesn't happen every play or every game. But to your point, it feels like this is a chronic issue. As much as I have never been one to pile on McDermott, it does boil down to him. That is the common thread. We just don't make the right choices in key situations. In my mind a lot of it is our coaching staff playing not to lose. We are the definition of a team that plays not to lose late in games. 

[CincyBillsFan]

41 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The ugly:  Josh is our best player but he just cannot stop giving the ball to the other team.  We have to factor that in every game and hope the D can bail em out.

WHAT!  It was a fluke INT off a batted pass. We won last night in site of being on the short end of multiple bad ball bounces and weird crap.  Allen TO's did not play a role in that game turning out to be closer then it should have been.

[zow2]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

WHAT!  It was a fluke INT off a batted pass. We won last night in site of being on the short end of multiple bad ball bounces and weird crap.  Allen TO's did not play a role in that game turning out to be closer then it should have been.

 

WHAT?!? Without that INT, the game is prob like a 31-10 final.   It kept it way closer than it should have been.   No need to be defensive of Josh.  It's Ok, he's still our best player and only chance for a Super Bowl.  When he turned around and Winfield was in his face should've thrown it into the turf or turtled.

[CincyBillsFan]

58 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

WHAT?!? Without that INT, the game is prob like a 31-10 final.   It kept it way closer than it should have been.   No need to be defensive of Josh.  It's Ok, he's still our best player and only chance for a Super Bowl.  When he turned around and Winfield was in his face should've thrown it into the turf or turtled.

Again a fluke 2nd quarter INT was no big deal.

 

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again a fluke 2nd quarter INT was no big deal.

 

Many posters on this site are not able to put things in context. Zow seems to be one of them. 

[LABILLBACKER]

The problem of not closing or having a "choking" reputation becomes a true reflection of your coaches. Belichick with Brady would literally cut your tongue out.  The great elite coaches go for the kill shot.  Sean doesn't want to hurt feelings.  Once he has that 10-14 pt lead he crawls into that shell, allowing teams to stick around. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Beast]

11 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

 

Are you worried about the team when they get to the tough part of your schedule in Philly,Dallas,KC, and even Chargers? 

Yeah, obviously that is a tough part of our schedule. Winning 3 of 4 would be great. Splitting those two may even be considered a success.