The Knox injury unfortunately has changed this offense for the better

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, dma0034 said:

The difference a win makes.

 

On Sunday the Bills score 25 and the Offense sucks. Fire Dorsey

 

They score 24 on Thursday and it's exactly what we've wanted. They killed it. Lol

 

Bills were very inconsistent. Had poor play calling inside the 5 yard like and McDermott played conservative. That said they do they to allow Allen to run and play up tempo.

Like everything else in the world…. Context matters.  When were the points scored?  What was the score when we punted?  
 

25 1st downs.  7/13 on 3rd.  Our top 4 pass catchers all had very good games.  Our RB1 averaged 4.8 ypc and looked pretty darn good (again).  
 

Our interception was tipped up and caught by a DT.  The Bucs had one legit scoring drive and it was aided by 2 4th down penalties, a push off (the TD to evans would’ve hit Benford in the back of head if he wasn’t pushed) and a tipped pass for lucky 2 pt conversion. 

 

We didn’t finish drives in the 2nd half because our D was holding their O them in check and punting > possibly gaining their O a short field.  And Martin was having a helluva game 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Yes.  The team put up 24 by early 3rd quarter.  Then McD/Dorsey turned it into a field position game.  The Bills ultimately got lucky to hold on, given the defense couldn’t get off the field in the 4th quarter and then the offense wasn’t able to get the two first downs when needed.

The offense got the first down to end the game.

 

Good teams are allowed to get up two scores and play defense and field position. Bad teams don’t score all game and desperately try to come back. I’ll let you guess who was who the last couple of weeks.

[Wayne Cubed]

I think the offense did look better in 11 personnel but as you said the coaches are still going it make some odd decision. And Dorsey calling that shotgun handoff to Murray on the the 1/2 yard line, is criminal. That took 7 off the board.

 

And McDermott, the 4 punts on the last 4 drives. He could have been more aggressive. 

[colin]

i like the guy, and he's great to watch when he's doing well, but he's honestly a square peg in a round hole and it's not working.

 

he never caught a td in college, played on a team w dk and aj, so we just assumed he wasn't targetted as much.

 

he's a sick athlete, but not a sick football player.  

 

our offense is better with other guys on the field, now that we have kinkaid at least.  

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So on one hand I understand the instincts of the fanbase to want Josh to get the ball out fast, but on the other hand we saw tonight the downside of always living in that world - Nonstop quick short passes leads to long drives that carry no margin for error from Dorsey or the players. We have no YAC specialists so most of those passes are getting tackled within 4 yards of the catch point. Slow and methodical sounds good in theory, but in reality because of how our offense is constructed it means every drive is a lot of grind it out work and usually relies on Allen making at least one Superman play just to keep the drive going or score a TD. I guess it looks a little prettier on the field but the final result is still below par.

Sounds a lot like Mahomes and the KC offense last season. 
 

Kc having Reid rather than Dorsey is a major advantage, but you have to BE ABLE to take what the D gives you. That’s what teams gave KC all last season and they took it all the way to a championship.  Dorsey just needs to figure some things out and our OL has to continue to play like they did tonight. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The offense got the first down to end the game.

 

Good teams are allowed to get up two scores and play defense and field position. Bad teams don’t score all game and desperately try to come back. I’ll let you guess who was who the last couple of weeks.

The offense did not get two first downs to end the game, they got one.  So they didn’t do enough to end the game.  With that said, I was happy with how the offense look by spreading things out more.  Also don’t have a huge gripe that they started playing field position, given TB couldn’t move the ball downfield until those drives in the 4th when the defense couldn’t get themselves off the field.  If I have a biggest gripe, it would go towards the defense in the 4th. 

[dma0034]

30 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Did you think the offense we ran last week had a high margin for error? We had 10 points for 55 minutes.

 

I of all people completely understand that Dorsey’s plan in the red zone is “run a bad play, then Josh figure something out.” Which is bad. But they ain’t firing Dorsey now, so we may as well rely on Superman and win some games.

More like the difference ignoring every single stat makes. 
 

Bills were better on third down, had more first downs, had almost 100 more yards, and had 1 less point because we took our foot off the gas up two scores.

 

”It was one point less than last week” just misses the entire forest for the trees 

 

Actually my point was the Bills defense was better. They actually made stops. 

[damj]

yes and no.

 

I think there will be times going 12 will be effective, but so will 11 or 4 wide with Kincaid out there.

 

Yesterday was better tempo, rhythm and play calling and letting Josh be Josh

[Brandon]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Not to be that guy but they technically have attempted to replace vet WR’s that left the team from 2021 to 2022 (I assume you are referring to Beasley, Brown and Sanders). Gabe was also drafted in 2020 to develop behind Brown, Diggs and Beasley. 

 

In 2022 they drafted Shakir who is finally breaking out and they signed Crowder last season as a vet stop gap. In 2023 they signed Hardy, Sheffield and drafted Kincaid to be another pass catcher. 
 

I would have preferred they gotten a better stop gap slot WR replacement in 2022 than Crowder but once again the attempt was there to ease the losses at WR.

 

Well, yes, technically they've replaced them, but the resources they've expended to do so in comparison to the talent lost has been just about the minimum they could get away with.  Two 5ths, two guys signed at/near the veteran minimum and a mid tier kick returner/gadget guy.  You could argue Kincaid, but its still not the same position. Thankfully Shakir is showing signs of life,  but to this point,  the drop-off in quality beyond WR2 the last two years has been significant.  

[Wraith]

8 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Sure, but then our last 3 drives just took the place of 1st quarter incompetence. 
 

A top offense on what’s supposed to be a SB contender has to kill the game on one of those drives. 
 

There’s still a lot wrong here. 

No, you're just plain wrong here. The offense was fine in the fourth quarter, the coaching and play calling just got ultra conservative. The Bills offense was using very little clock the first three quarters and with a two touchdown lead in the fourth quarter they decided to downshift to eat some clock.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Not scoring the final few drives sucks for sure but McD played it according to the context of the game.  Punting on 4th and 2’s that we’ve seen him go for time after time in recent years…..we were up 2 scores and our defense was stopping their offense.

 

I'm not complaining about the punts. I thought based on the flow of the game up to that point both of them made sense. I would have kicked a FG on 4th and goal on our second drive too. I'm usually a believer in taking points early (unless facing a really good offense) and playing field position when up 2+ scores.

 

My complaint is about the play calling that got us into 4th downs. Too predictable, too vanilla, we went away from players and plays that worked earlier in the game. We have to stop falling into offensive ruts that last an entire quarter or more. That formula is not conducive to winning a Super Bowl and we've seen it for 4 consecutive weeks now.

 

I agree a fast start/bad finish is better than the opposite because it helps the defense tee off a bit, but it is still not a good result and we shouldn't be satisfied. Plus I wouldn't call 3 points on two drives a "fast start" anyways, but at least we moved the ball. No reason we shouldn't have scored 31+ in this game.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by HappyDays

[Process]

8 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Agree about Shakir.  He doesn’t get on the field as the slot WR nearly as much if Knox is playing.  Yes Knox can run guys over WHEN he catches the ball, but his hands are horrible and he’s nowhere near the receiving threat that Shakir is.

Shakir can run guys over too!

Seriously, Shakir needs to be on the field way more, like he was tonight. I'm done with the 12p experiment, though I am worried they will try to force it because of Knox's contract.

 

Kincaid TE1 with Dawson in a blocking/backup role.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not complaining about the punts. I thought based on the flow of the game up to that point both of them made sense. I would have kicked a FG on 4th and goal on our second drive too. I'm usually a believer in taking points early (unless facing a really good offense) and playing field position when up 2+ scores.

 

My complaint is about the play calling that got us into 4th downs. Too predictable, too vanilla, we went away from players and plays that worked earlier in the game. We have to stop falling into offensive ruts that last an entire quarter or more. That formula is not conducive to winning a Super Bowl and we've seen it for 4 consecutive weeks now.

 

I agree a fast start/bad finish is better than the opposite because it helps the defense tee off a bit, but it is still not a good result and we shouldn't be satisfied. Plus I wouldn't call 3 points on two drives a "fast start" anyways, but at least we moved the ball. No reason we shouldn't have scored 31+ in this game.

 

100% there's still plenty of room to go.

 

I still think the offense was significantly better than it has been for the last 3 weeks. If they continue to improve, that's good. If they level off at last night, we are still gonna be 1 and done.

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

It sucks that Knox is injured. I like him as a player.

 

But it’s clear that without Knox, we are no longer forcing 12 personnel, which has clearly been holding this offense back. 
 

Unfortuantelt, we may see the 12 return when Knox gets healthy because Dorsey is going to have to include him and Kincaid. But the biggest difference tonight was 11 personnel. Dorsey is still Dorsey. this team is just better at 11 as currently constructed.

It’s time for Dorsey to put on his big boy pants and do what is right for team success, and if that means a slightly diminished role for certain players so be it. 

[HappyDays]

Here's the new offense:

 

Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Shakir. That's our new base personnel. From what we saw last night it's pretty good although I wish we had some more juice on the outside. Quick short passes to Diggs and Davis is not an ideal game plan but I guess it's the best we can do.

 

I do worry about what happens when Knox comes back. I would hate to disrupt what's working out of some unfounded obligation. Maybe the medical staff can find out that his injury is worse than it seemed 😉

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not complaining about the punts. I thought based on the flow of the game up to that point both of them made sense. I would have kicked a FG on 4th and goal on our second drive too. I'm usually a believer in taking points early (unless facing a really good offense) and playing field position when up 2+ scores.

 

My complaint is about the play calling that got us into 4th downs. Too predictable, too vanilla, we went away from players and plays that worked earlier in the game. We have to stop falling into offensive ruts that last an entire quarter or more. That formula is not conducive to winning a Super Bowl and we've seen it for 4 consecutive weeks now.

 

I agree a fast start/bad finish is better than the opposite because it helps the defense tee off a bit, but it is still not a good result and we shouldn't be satisfied. Plus I wouldn't call 3 points on two drives a "fast start" anyways, but at least we moved the ball. No reason we shouldn't have scored 31+ in this game.

 

I agree with the play calling-  I wasn’t a fan of it in the 4th either.  I was a fan the majority of the game.  Spreading the ball out in the pass game. 
 

Shakir  6 (6)- 92

Davis 9 (12)- 87-1

Diggs 9 (12)- 70

Kincaid 5 (7)- 65- 1

 

thats the offense we’ve been waiting for (I have anyway).  Would’ve liked to see Cook a few more targets in the pass game but overall, I think we should be happy.  
 

We’ve gotten off to horrible first halves the last few weeks.  Our offense dictated the game in the first half and was clicking.  The cohesiveness we haven’t seen since the Miami game was there.  

[sunshynman]

10 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

A combination of both. It’s clear as day though that Kincaid is the better route runner and better hands. He should be on the field either as a TE or slot WR at all times. 

AMEN

 

10 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Sure, but then our last 3 drives just took the place of 1st quarter incompetence. 
 

A top offense on what’s supposed to be a SB contender has to kill the game on one of those drives. 
 

There’s still a lot wrong here. 

Yes, but still rather play from a lead. It was so much execution in the 2nf half as it was coaching. It's odd that McD coaches more conservation against bad teams then good. If we are playing a good O, he goes for more of the 4th downs as way to keep up scoring. Last night he was relying on the D, which played much better than Sunday, but is missing important pieces. 

[Bangarang]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's the new offense:

 

Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Shakir. That's our new base personnel. From what we saw last night it's pretty good although I wish we had some more juice on the outside. Quick short passes to Diggs and Davis is not an ideal game plan but I guess it's the best we can do.

 

I do worry about what happens when Knox comes back. I would hate to disrupt what's working out of some unfounded obligation. Maybe the medical staff can find out that his injury is worse than it seemed 😉

When Knox comes back you already know we’re going back to what we were doing pre-injury. Dorsey has constantly proven he’s stubborn. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

No, you're just plain wrong here. The offense was fine in the fourth quarter, the coaching and play calling just got ultra conservative. The Bills offense was using very little clock the first three quarters and with a two touchdown lead in the fourth quarter they decided to downshift to eat some clock.

I agree they got really conservative, but coaching and play calling is part of the offense. 
 

The offense doesn’t exist as an entity outside of that, as much as a lot of us would like for it to. 
 

A good offense puts that game away on 1 of those 3 drives. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

I had a feeling it would.  I'm finally on board with some of the other poster that this coaching staff does not use its young talent like they should until they are forced to