Mass Shooting in Lewiston Maine

[EasternOHBillsFan]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

out of curiosity i came to PPP. i am not disappointed.

 

well done to make it instantly political and turn off any possibility of amenable discussion.

 

god PPP sucks since the exodus occurred and the mouth breathers took over. well done, all, well done.

 

@EasternOHBillsFan this is part of why Dev left. 

 

It's not normal for Maine to have this happen... not at all. I got a message from someone explaining why and deleted my post. Unfortunately a couple of ancient TBDers, which I am a part of, have died, so I just didn't want to see any more loss of life... which is why I asked.

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

Again, ignorant American belief. We are not and have not been the most advanced country on the earth. I don't know who is number 1 or what criteria is used. Nor do I care. 

 

This country cannot be compared to any other country and vice versa. There are many reasons why this is so and they can be debated. 

 

There is no debate on countries like UAE, Germany, China, Canada, the UK, NZ, and Australia, just to name a few. They have much limited freedom and/or much steeper penalties of law.

 

You're losing this argument wholy yet I know my statements do nothing to deter or challenge your thought processes. You've already firmly embedded yourself and gave your position on gun control away from the start. 

 

I challenge you to find any statement I have said in support or against it in any of my posts. This is because I am open to dialogue on the topic.

What debate (or lack thereof) is there on those countries? That they’re better than us?

 

I want us to have the best of everything, the highest GDP, top-healthcare, and inclusive socioeconomic institutions where everyone has a fair shot at success. 
 

I WANT us to be the best, to return to being a shining city on a hilltop. I want us to have the best scientific achievements, the best literary achievements, and so forth. Yet, here we are still arguing about why people are happily walking into bowling alleys shooting innocent people. 
 

So yes, I want these guns removed from society. We are too stupid to handle the responsibility of having them. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It will be interesting when the information of how he got comes outM

 

I never really thought of Maine as a state with this kind of problem

Well, in spite of the rhetoric here the morning after another senseless massacre, maybe it's time to rethink what people think they know.  This issue is far more complicated than "NRA!".  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/us/gun-owners-liberal-women-minority-reaj/index.html

 

https://theliberalgunclub.com/

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-owns-more-guns-democrats-or-republicans/ar-AA17ibLK

 

It's absolutely stunning that in 2023, a guy identified as being mentally ill, who talked about shooting people, was even allowed out of the hospital/institution he was in. 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Well, in spite of the rhetoric here the morning after another senseless massacre, maybe it's time to rethink what people think they know.  This issue is far more complicated than "NRA!".  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/us/gun-owners-liberal-women-minority-reaj/index.html

 

https://theliberalgunclub.com/

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-owns-more-guns-democrats-or-republicans/ar-AA17ibLK

 

It's absolutely stunning that in 2023, a guy identified as being mentally ill, who talked about shooting people, was even allowed out of the hospital/institution he was in. 

 

 

I agree with that

[B-Man]

#"2nd Amendment"  is trending, along with   # ItsTheGuns  because as usual, when a mentally ill psychopath murders people in a mass shooting, the Democrats and Leftists blame the gun in this case the AR-15, not the murderer.

 

The Lewiston, Maine alleged shooter, Robert Card threatened to shoot up a military base and they let him out of the psychiatric hospital, go into the general population without warning FBI/cops and he was still able to buy gun. But the left says, "it's the guns".

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

What debate (or lack thereof) is there on those countries? That they’re better than us?

 

I want us to have the best of everything, the highest GDP, top-healthcare, and inclusive socioeconomic institutions where everyone has a fair shot at success. 
 

I WANT us to be the best, to return to being a shining city on a hilltop. I want us to have the best scientific achievements, the best literary achievements, and so forth. Yet, here we are still arguing about why people are happily walking into bowling alleys shooting innocent people. 
 

So yes, I want these guns removed from society. We are too stupid to handle the responsibility of having them. 

i never said those countries were better or not than us. you did. that is on you to explain why we are the best country and at their low level of standard. you also owe mexico an apology with your statement that it is not acceptable to be compared to them.

 

your wants are admirable. i am glad you have values.

 

your logic and approach to this is summed up saying someone is happy to walk into a bowling alley and shoot people up. you have found your belief of that individual prior to research or detection.

 

your logic and values begin to fall apart when you castigate "we" society as being too stupid to handle them responsibly.

 

you have dug yourself a deeper hole. you must now:

 

1) explain why this country is better or worse than other countries.

a) specifically mexico and how you view that country.

2) explain why you think the individual was happy to have walked into the bowling alley in a rampage.

3) produce your measure for intelligence and the bar of "stupidity" which much be the threshold to own a gun.

 

again, good luck.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

Not surprising that this is what this thread turned into. I try to only come on this part of the site like once a week because it's so toxic. 

 

None of this is black and white. There is no one solution. There's complexities to every aspect of it. There needs to be multiple "solutions" to even somewhat alleviate the issue, let alone "fix it". 

 

Red flag laws can make it harder for people like this to get guns, but not even close to impossible. The Left puts too much stock into this.

 

The Right screams mental health, which I agree is a major part of the issue...however they are largely against funding universal programs that would actually help these populations who have the most to do with these atrocities gain access to mental healthcare which is very expensive. 

 

Also it's very hard, and especially would be today, to keep someone in an institution against their will. Especially if they haven't outwardly done anything yet. Most mental health issues are not something that comes up in a physical brain scan. Diagnosis many times comes from psychiatric or psychological evaluations based on mental health tests that are absolutely fallible to no fault of anyone because there is no 100% way to test this...and also literally from just what the patient is telling the physician. You could say you are hearing voices to go on a shooting rampage but what if in a couple of months after you're on some meds you say those voices are gone even if they aren't? Or maybe they are and then resurface later? How long should you be institutionalized against your will once that happens? 

 

I mentioned in another post when we were talking about welfare/mental health disability where people were knocking physicians for giving so many people mental health disorder diagnoses...but when so much of it comes from what the patient is telling them, they don't really have a choice. It can be faked, many times relatively easily. Just like it can be faked that you're "OK" again. 

 

I'll throw out a pretentious sounding word here, but it's going to take a holistic approach - more accessible mental healthcare, redflag laws, prison reformation to make time incarcerated more productive with education with pipelining with trade schools, companies, etc, big pharma regulations, and probably other things I haven't even though of right now. And again that's just to alleviate the issue. 

 

People get really blame-thirsty when these things happen and forget how complex all of this is and that it's going to take solutions to a combination of everyone's concerns on all sides. It's always just a fight on who is wrong and who is right that nothing at all gets done. And that's been going on for decades now - this thread is a microcosm of that. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[BillStime]

14 minutes ago, B-Man said:

#"2nd Amendment"  is trending, along with   # ItsTheGuns  because as usual, when a mentally ill psychopath murders people in a mass shooting, the Democrats and Leftists blame the gun in this case the AR-15, not the murderer.

 

The Lewiston, Maine alleged shooter, Robert Card threatened to shoot up a military base and they let him out of the psychiatric hospital, go into the general population without warning FBI/cops and he was still able to buy gun. But the left says, "it's the guns".

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

Never a thought of her own:

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

9 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I'll throw out a pretentious sounding word here, but it's going to take a holistic approach - more accessible mental healthcare, redflag laws, prison reformation to make time incarcerated more productive with education with pipelining with trade schools, companies, etc, big pharma regulations, and probably other things I haven't even though of right now. And again that's just to alleviate the issue. 

that makes a lot of sense.

 

like you said, its a complex issue.. the lone wolf is different than the inner-city gang's strong man... and that's not even getting into the suicide factor.

 

The part about prisons/jails actually reforming vs making the criminals better at being criminals is a great Idea. short and long term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tommy Callahan

[B-Man]

 

 

Maine Mass Shooting Doesn’t Justify More Gun Control. Here’s Why.

BY MATT MARGOLIS 

 

 

On Wednesday night, there was a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that has left at least 22 people dead, and many more injured at various locations. The suspect in the shooting, Robert Card, remains at large, and a manhunt is underway. According to reports, the suspect went to multiple locations, including a bar and a bowling alley.

 

Naturally, Democrats were quick to jump in with calls for more gun control. But make no mistake about it, this incident doesn’t prove the need for more gun control at all. It actually proves that existing gun control measures aren’t being enforced. How so? Well, according to information released to the public so far, we know that the suspect has severe mental health problems and was previously known to law enforcement.

 

According to a Maine law enforcement bulletin, Card “recently reported mental health issues including hearing voices and threats to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco.” Card was also reported to have been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks this past summer.

 

Let that sink in for a moment. Here’s a man with mental health problems who threatened to shoot up a base. Can anyone explain why he was a free man in the first place, let alone still in possession of firearms?

 

It’s inevitable that Joe Biden will deliver remarks at some point about the shooting, and it’s a safe bet he’ll blame the NRA and congressional Republicans—his favorite scapegoats for gun violence. But the NRA has consistently called upon the federal government to tackle the issue of mental illness and violence. In 1966, the NRA stated, “The time is at hand to seek means by which society can identify, treat and temporarily isolate such individuals,” because “elimination of the instrument by which these crimes are committed cannot arrest the ravages of a psychotic murderer.”

 

As Cam Edwards notes, if the suspect “was involuntarily committed to a mental health facility, that would have precluded him from legally purchasing or possessing a firearm. A voluntary commitment, on the other hand, wouldn’t necessarily have resulted in a NICS denial after he was released.” However, if Card “did self-report mental health issues including a threat to shoot up an army base and was committed to a mental health facility, that likely would have been seen as ‘clear and convincing evidence’ that he presented a danger to himself or others.”

 

 

When existing mechanisms to keep guns away from the mentally ill aren’t used,

that’s not a reason for more gun control that won’t actually solve the problem.

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2023/10/26/maine-mass-shooting-doesnt-justify-more-gun-control-heres-why-n1738149

[BillStime]

Listen to this.

Listen to the pain.

Listen to the absolute heartbreak.

Listen to this nightmare.

 

 

 

And now read the MAGA nutters who defend the indefensible.

 

The epitome of trash.

 

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Maine Mass Shooting Doesn’t Justify More Gun Control. Here’s Why.

BY MATT MARGOLIS 

 

 

On Wednesday night, there was a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that has left at least 22 people dead, and many more injured at various locations. The suspect in the shooting, Robert Card, remains at large, and a manhunt is underway. According to reports, the suspect went to multiple locations, including a bar and a bowling alley.

 

Naturally, Democrats were quick to jump in with calls for more gun control. But make no mistake about it, this incident doesn’t prove the need for more gun control at all. It actually proves that existing gun control measures aren’t being enforced. How so? Well, according to information released to the public so far, we know that the suspect has severe mental health problems and was previously known to law enforcement.

 

According to a Maine law enforcement bulletin, Card “recently reported mental health issues including hearing voices and threats to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco.” Card was also reported to have been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks this past summer.

 

Let that sink in for a moment. Here’s a man with mental health problems who threatened to shoot up a base. Can anyone explain why he was a free man in the first place, let alone still in possession of firearms?

 

It’s inevitable that Joe Biden will deliver remarks at some point about the shooting, and it’s a safe bet he’ll blame the NRA and congressional Republicans—his favorite scapegoats for gun violence. But the NRA has consistently called upon the federal government to tackle the issue of mental illness and violence. In 1966, the NRA stated, “The time is at hand to seek means by which society can identify, treat and temporarily isolate such individuals,” because “elimination of the instrument by which these crimes are committed cannot arrest the ravages of a psychotic murderer.”

 

As Cam Edwards notes, if the suspect “was involuntarily committed to a mental health facility, that would have precluded him from legally purchasing or possessing a firearm. A voluntary commitment, on the other hand, wouldn’t necessarily have resulted in a NICS denial after he was released.” However, if Card “did self-report mental health issues including a threat to shoot up an army base and was committed to a mental health facility, that likely would have been seen as ‘clear and convincing evidence’ that he presented a danger to himself or others.”

 

 

When existing mechanisms to keep guns away from the mentally ill aren’t used,

that’s not a reason for more gun control that won’t actually solve the problem.

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2023/10/26/maine-mass-shooting-doesnt-justify-more-gun-control-heres-why-n1738149

 

I can agree with some of that and definitely on Biden's uselessness...but are you also willing to admit that the same NRA that "calls for the federal government to tackle the issue of mental illness" has also poured in tens of millions of dollars in donations to the Republican party that is very largely against universal healthcare, or even more isolated universal programs that would give access to mental healthcare that the populations that overwhelmingly commit these crimes have trouble getting? 

 

Lets acknowledge the major hypocrisies on both sides here. Neither Biden or the NRA actually care about the issues at hand. It's all face-saving. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[B-Man]

 

And now a local shooting. . . . tragic

 

New York State with all of it's laws cannot stop evil when it shows.

 

 

 

[T&C]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

And now a local shooting. . . . tragic

 

New York State with all of it's laws cannot stop evil when it shows.

 

 

 

Two people have been shot, one fatally, on the I-190 south in Downtown Buffalo, according to New York State Police, who responded to the call in at 11:20 a.m. Thursday.

While details are limited at this time, authorities say a shooting happened on the highway, and that at least one person is dead.

Erie County Sheriff John C. Garcia reports that the I-190 southbound between Niagara Street and Porter is shutdown. Traffic is being diverted off at exit 11 (Scajaquada Expressway) until further notice.  

Officials are urging the public to avoid the area.

If you are heading to the Buffalo Bills game tonight at Highmark Stadium, it is advised to use an alternative route.

[Tommy Callahan]

19 minutes ago, T&C said:

Two people have been shot, one fatally, on the I-190 south in Downtown Buffalo, according to New York State Police, who responded to the call in at 11:20 a.m. Thursday.

While details are limited at this time, authorities say a shooting happened on the highway, and that at least one person is dead.

Erie County Sheriff John C. Garcia reports that the I-190 southbound between Niagara Street and Porter is shutdown. Traffic is being diverted off at exit 11 (Scajaquada Expressway) until further notice.  

Officials are urging the public to avoid the area.

If you are heading to the Buffalo Bills game tonight at Highmark Stadium, it is advised to use an alternative route.

Crazy how the traffic the other way is not stopped though. maybe they deemed it over.

 

If someone died, they can't open till the coroner gets on site.   or it could be a crime scene.

 

here is a link to the traffic cams that show the cops blocking it off.

 

Traffic Cameras - New York State Thruway (ny.gov)

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tommy Callahan

[B-Man]

 

[Irv]

The Maine shooting is clearly the work of Biden and the DNC.  Anything to take focus off the worldwide mess they've created.  Pathetic.  What a mess.    

[wnyguy]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

The Maine shooting is clearly the work of Biden and the DNC.  Anything to take focus off the worldwide mess they've created.  Pathetic.  What a mess.    

Irv, it's 11 o'clock, do you know where your children are ?

[Irv]

9 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So he's crazy and is allowed to have a gun. Good job NRA 

 

This is possibly your dumbest post.  And that's quite an achievement.  If an elderly person runs over a pedestrian, do we blame the AARP?  What ridiculous take.  

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Irv

[Wacka]

Watching the Buffalo news conference right now. At 11 AM today, three Buffalo Sewer Dept. employees were shot  in a  dept. truck  while riding southbound  on the 190.  The Thruway was closed for a while but is now open.  The State troopers are looking on the shoulder  by the Ward Pumping Station  for shell casings.One died, one is in serous condition, and the third has non-life threatening injuries.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Wacka