OLINE PASS PRO/ QB UNFORCED ERROR ALL 22 REVIEW - WEEK 7 PATRIOTS

[oldmanfan]

Orlovsky has pointed out teams know the Bills are very weak on reacting to the blitz, can’t get things blocked or get the ball out quickly.   Teams will keep doing it till the Bills prove they can beat it.

Edited October 24, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Bocephuz]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Another point about pressure and it's effect that is hard to quantify but I suspect is very important is the impact of repeated QB pressures on those moments when there isn't much pressure on the QB.  According to the stats I've seen Allen was pressured on 41% of his drop backs which is very high. This will have a cumulative impact on how a QB reacts on pass plays when the rush isn't as effective and he has time. 

 

Over the years I've seen many elite QB's get "rattled" a bit by continuous pressure and not make the best decisions or throws when their pass protection did hold up. After a DT breaks free up the gut and is in your face you become less willing to move up in the pocket because you no longer trust that the pocket will hold up. And when you're being harassed form one side with almost immediate pressure you might jump out of the pocket on plays where the pressure isn't immediate.

 

I think one of the keys to Allen's amazing ability to avoid sacks is that he anticipates the pass rush very well.  But this will also mean he will be wrong sometimes and his anticipation will betray him and he'll bail to soon from the pocket.  But against NE there are a lot of NFL QB's who would have been sacked at least 4 or 5 more times then Allen did.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the price you pay when your QB is under constant pressure is that they'll bail from the pocket to soon or throw the ball into the ground on pays where they did have time & opportunity to move up in the pocket. Not sure ho you would quantitate this factor but it's real.

 

 

I address this in my post above.

this is a good point.. hate to admit it .. but sometimes Allen "sees ghosts" a al Zach Wilson.  the cumulative effect of bad pass pro from earlier in a game..or .. previous games does creep in 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, balln said:

Of course you question anything where Joshy isn’t perfect

It beats jumping all over Allen every time the Bills lose and he doesn't have a HOF game. I would expect that sort of stuff about Allen on a Jet's or Dolphins message board.  But it takes someone who is clinically depressed to do it repeatedly on a Bills message board. But hey we all have an opinion and you're entitled to yours.

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It beats jumping all over Allen every time the Bills lose and he doesn't have a HOF game. I would expect that sort of stuff about Allen on a Jet's or Dolphins message board.  But it takes someone who is clinically depressed to do it repeatedly on a Bills message board. But hey we all have an opinion and you're entitled to yours.

 

I’m hard on him when he looks bad yes

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

this is a good point.. hate to admit it .. but sometimes Allen "sees ghosts" a al Zach Wilson.  the cumulative effect of bad pass pro from earlier in a game..or .. previous games does creep in 

I didn't want to use the word "ghosts" because of the famous Darnold comment but you're right and that is exactly what it is. In fact I've seen it a lot even with the best QB's.  Go back and watch Mahomes in the TB Super Bowl.  There are times he bails from the pocket when he doesn't have to but he was under a lot of pressure.  And I use Mahomes here as I have immense respect for him. 

 

 

[PBF81]

52 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

there's few things more difficult in sports. silver lining is that we know Josh had the balance figured out in the past.. its in there somewhere. 

he is on the small side... that being said.. he was excellent the first few games in pass pro picking up blitzes.. not sure why he's regressing. 

 

Size & types of players rushing?  

 

i.e., DBs rather than LBs maybe.  I haven't spent any time looking whatsoever other than superficially.  

 

 

[Mango]

I always look forward to these. Thank you!

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, balln said:

I’m hard on him when he looks bad yes

But he didn't play bad in the NE game.  In fact he played good if you go by QBR & the regular QB rating.  He was average in the 1st half and he was excellent in the 2nd half.  He got the Bills the lead with under 2 minutes left.  That's not playing "bad" by a long shot.

 

The problem with some of you people is that you equate Allen not playing at an all pro level as playing "bad".  That's silly on its face but you do it all the time.  Allen only played "bad" in one game this season - against the Jets.  Since that game he has been good to great in every game.  Which is exactly where you want your franchise QB to be. 

 

As Greg Cosell keeps saying if you need your QB to be elite in every game you got a problem and it's not the QB.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[balln]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But he didn't play bad in the NE game.  In fact he played good if you go by QBR & the regular QB rating.  He was average in the 1st half and he was excellent in the 2nd half.  He got the Bills the lead with under 2 minutes left.  That's not playing "bad" by a long shot.

 

The problem with some of you people is that you equate Allen not playing at an all pro level as playing "bad".  That's silly on its face but you do it all the time.  Allen only played "bad" in one game this season - against the Jets.  Since that game he has been good to great in every game.  Which is exactly where you want your franchise QB to be. 

 

As Greg Cosell keeps saying if you need your QB to be elite in every game you got a problem and it's not the QB.

 

 

He played BAD in the first half.

[Bocephuz]

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I didn't want to use the word "ghosts" because of the famous Darnold comment but you're right and that is exactly what it is. In fact I've seen it a lot even with the best QB's.  Go back and watch Mahomes in the TB Super Bowl.  There are times he bails from the pocket when he doesn't have to but he was under a lot of pressure.  And I use Mahomes here as I have immense respect for him. 

 

 

Happens to the best of them.. especially guys like Mahomes and Allen who are super athletes and thrive when improvising. Comes back to bite em in the ass sometimes tho

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Size & types of players rushing?  

 

i.e., DBs rather than LBs maybe.  I haven't spent any time looking whatsoever other than superficially.  

 

 

It seems to be delayed blitzes I've seen have typically been LBs or DBs.... and they either come from the outside edge... or they hide behind the Dline and then sneak in through the A or B gap 

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

I always look forward to these. Thank you!

My pleasure.. hopefully they provide some context

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, balln said:

He played BAD in the first half.

Again you conflate "bad" with mediocre.  They are two very different things when talking about QB play in the NFL.  And if you had lived through the 18 year playoff drought and seen what "bad" QBing actually looked like you would not say Allen was bad in the 1st half against NE. 

 

Oh and Allen was excellent in the 2nd half.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again you conflate "bad" with mediocre.  They are two very different things when talking about QB play in the NFL.  And if you had lived through the 18 year playoff drought and seen what "bad" QBing actually looked like you would not say Allen was bad in the 1st half against NE. 

 

Oh and Allen was excellent in the 2nd half.

 

 

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

Allen is far and away leading the league in CPOE

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Allen is far and away leading the league in CPOE

 

That's better than points.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's better than points.

 the Bills are scoring points at third highest rate in the league

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

And you're countering with highly subjective analysis.  Is Marino the last word here? I'll wait to here from a lot more "experts" before taking what Marino said as gospel.

 

Everything you say about Allen in your last paragraph is a gross distortion and exaggeration of what is happening on the field IMO.

 

And for the record I'm not "box score scoring".  I'm looking at the cumulative rankings of QB's after 7 weeks of play.  And I'll trust that sample size of OBJECTIVE measurements over one or two guys looking at the film in a highly subjective way.

 

 

[DapperCam]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

If you think Josh Allen played bad, I invite you to watch other quarterbacks. Most of them played worse this weekend.

 

Jalen Hurts had a very similar stat line against a trash Dolphins defense that Allen torched. Did Hurts have a very bad game? Nobody is saying that…

[Comebackkid]

I look at like if the coaching staff has influence over Allen and his running then he is listening.   If bad habits are popping up and he is regression the training staff is allowing it to happen.   That's why we have a qb coach and an OC.   To coach to direct, to give insight and to explain how and why and why not.  If Josh is not doing what he should when he should, how he should they need to be in his face.   Don't just allow it happen and then say we don't why this stuff is happening. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Comebackkid

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Nice analysis but we are all focused on the wrong group.  The defense made a group of jags look like world beaters.  Penalties, poor third down performance, horrible tackling, and blown assignments extended drives and gave up scoring opportunities.  I thought Dane Jackson was terrible on screens and in run support.  Ford and Settle frequently got their butts handed to them.  Poyer was slow to react to patterns in his zone coverage.  When they are playing a really bad group of receivers like the Cheatriots, more man to man and pressure at the line of scrimmage combined with blitzing would have been a better approach.  Jones folds and makes big mistakes under pressure.  Miller should have been used more.

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If you think Josh Allen played bad, I invite you to watch other quarterbacks. Most of them played worse this weekend.

 

Jalen Hurts had a very similar stat line against a trash Dolphins defense that Allen torched. Did Hurts have a very bad game? Nobody is saying that…

Is your argument really that since other QB’s played worse, that means he didn’t?  
 

Is that what we want as a franchise QB?  He wasn’t worse than other QB’s.