Why is everyone focused on the Offense here?

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

So the moment the dismal offense scores a few points they are off the hook.  The offense was clearly the problem.  Any one with a clue can see this offense is completely off rhythm.   The D is holding on for dear life missing its top 3 players. 

Giving up 29 points to the worst O in the NFL isn’t hanging in it’s letting go and being splattered against the wall.

 

I mean even on the last drive they gave up a HUGE play to start the drive off. All they needed to do was make Jones drive down the field and make him either make a mistake or at worse settle for a FG.  Instead Stevenson rumbles for 30 yards? (Almost getting the Pats into FG range) They had a hard time staying in receivers who couldn’t get separation all year.. imagine what will happen with Evans on Thursday, or Higgins and Chase when you have the Bengals.  You had no real pass rush. I think the Bills even tried blitzing and still failed to get home.

 

Point is the Bills O could score 35 moving forward and the D as it is playing now will give up 40. 

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But to do this the team must prioritize the offense over the defense and by a wide margin. It definitely has not.  You can't skimp on an O line that has been rated in the bottom half of the NFL this season and the last couple of seasons, and then expect the Offense to carry the team when the D experiences injuries and isn't playing well. And I haven't even mentioned our collection of underwhelming offensive skill players not named Diggs.

 

 

 

 

 

While we may not make draft picks there, we sign plenty of FAs to the Offense. So I cant say it is prioritized, or less prioritized by a large margin.

 

The OLine additions we've made this year, just with McGovern and Edwards, are huge. Let alone spending a high pick on Torrence which is already paying off.

 

This is the best OL we've had in McD's tenure, and possibly in decades. So no excuses there for the Offense.

 

And while their performance may leave us wanting, we have enough talent at skill positions to be showing better results than we have been. Outside of Kelce, I dont see any All-Pros or even Pro-Bowlers on KC's Offense. I'd also argue we had lesser talent back when Josh was spreading the ball around and setting records for most unique WRs to catch a pass in games.

[sunshynman]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a great point and it suggests to me that the problem isn't Allen or even Dorsey but it's a strategic issue arising from the head coach.

 

It seems like against inferior teams McD wants to win putting out the minimum effort. He does this I suspect in recognition that it's a long season and believes there will be less attrition of he does it this way.  Of course the challenge is that in the NFL the difference between the best and worst team isn't that great.

 

Think about the Dolphins game. McD saw the fish as a real threat and a great team. So how did the offense start that game - explosively and aggressively.  I'll throw the Jags game out because the issue there was the travel.  But against the Giants & Pats McD believed the Bills could win putting out 80% effort.  Then when things went south the O was turned lose as you note and they performed very well at that point in BOTH games.

 

 

That may be valid. So, Dorsey and the O need to say F-that and play hard, inspired football anyway. 

 

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

Point is the Bills O could score 35 moving forward and the D as it is playing now will give up 40. 

Yes! We need help on D because of the injuries. Needs are DT, LB, CB in that order. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Giving up 29 points to the worst O in the NFL isn’t hanging in it’s letting go and being splattered against the wall.

 

I mean even on the last drive they gave up a HUGE play to start the drive off. All they needed to do was make Jones drive down the field and make him either make a mistake or at worse settle for a FG.  Instead Stevenson rumbles for 30 yards? (Almost getting the Pats into FG range) They had a hard time staying in receivers who couldn’t get separation all year.. imagine what will happen with Evans on Thursday, or Higgins and Chase when you have the Bengals.  You had no real pass rush. I think the Bills even tried blitzing and still failed to get home.

 

Point is the Bills O could score 35 moving forward and the D as it is playing now will give up 40. 

This is extremely silly. If we score 35 and lose, yes, the offense will have done enough and we should blame the D for allowing 40.

 

That didn’t happen last week. Or the week before. Or the week before.

 

So why would anyone care about that stupid hypothetical, now?

[Casey D]

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Giving up 29 points to the worst O in the NFL isn’t hanging in it’s letting go and being splattered against the wall.

 

I mean even on the last drive they gave up a HUGE play to start the drive off. All they needed to do was make Jones drive down the field and make him either make a mistake or at worse settle for a FG.  Instead Stevenson rumbles for 30 yards? (Almost getting the Pats into FG range) They had a hard time staying in receivers who couldn’t get separation all year.. imagine what will happen with Evans on Thursday, or Higgins and Chase when you have the Bengals.  You had no real pass rush. I think the Bills even tried blitzing and still failed to get home.

 

Point is the Bills O could score 35 moving forward and the D as it is playing now will give up 40. 

You are right.  But with four of our best defenders out, not surprising.  Basically we need the offense to be exceptional at this point.

 

Mac Jones was a blind squirrel on Sunday, he finally found a nut.  It won't last.  I'd rather be the Bills than the Pats, cause that team sucks.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Casey D

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a great point and it suggests to me that the problem isn't Allen or even Dorsey but it's a strategic issue arising from the head coach.

 

It seems like against inferior teams McD wants to win putting out the minimum effort. He does this I suspect in recognition that it's a long season and believes there will be less attrition of he does it this way.  Of course the challenge is that in the NFL the difference between the best and worst team isn't that great.

 

Think about the Dolphins game. McD saw the fish as a real threat and a great team. So how did the offense start that game - explosively and aggressively.  I'll throw the Jags game out because the issue there was the travel.  But against the Giants & Pats McD believed the Bills could win putting out 80% effort.  Then when things went south the O was turned lose as you note and they performed very well at that point in BOTH games.

 

 

 

I dont know. I dont know how much I buy that McD is telling his OC "Dont try so hard in the beginning with this opponent".

 

Could be that. Could be Dorsey not having the O prepared, and his gameplan/opening script sucks.

 

Of course, tough to say when your QB walks out and throws a horrible pick on the 1st play.

 

So sounds like it's a bit of all of it.

 

But it does all start at the top.

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It absolutely does matter, and you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the psychology of football if you don’t realize that.

 

Look at the Dolphins game. We went score for score with Miami, they knew they had to be on their A game to compete

 

We punted more in the Dolphins game than we did against the Patriots.

 

A major difference in the Dolphins game was turnovers. By the DEFENSE.

The defense forced a turnover on 5 of the last 7 Dolphins drives. An interception, a fumble, and three turnovers on downs. 
 

[nedboy7]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Did you know that Philly and SF rotate a lot of DL?

 

OMG why do you hate this team!!! 

SF lost to a team whose only wins were against CHI and CAR.  The two worst teams in the league.  They scored 17 points!!! Can you imagine this board if the Bills did that?  Funny *****. 

Time for a rebuild in the bay area? 

Edited October 24, 2023 by nedboy7

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

So the moment the dismal offense scores a few points they are off the hook.  The offense was clearly the problem.  Any one with a clue can see this offense is completely off rhythm.   The D is holding on for dear life missing its top 3 players. 

You have to be more specific.  The offense has been dismal in the 1st half of the last 2 games and outstanding in the 2nd half of those same games. Sure this is a frustrating lack of consistency.  But why are they this way? 

 

Some posters are assuming it's the players particularly Allen.  Others are throwing the blame at Dorsey.  But what if it's neither and it's more about the strategy that the head coach brings in when facing what he considers clearly inferior teams?  A defensive minded coach to boot.  What are the things he emphasizes in the first half? Don't do anything that will compromise the defense and give our opponents a chance. 

 

McD wants a workmanlike victory where the other team implodes and he can rest his starters in the 4th quarter.  But maybe we're not good enough to play this way or the difference between the really crap teams and the great ones doesn't allow you to play this way. If you remember a fully healthy Bills team played Washington this way and dominated by the end of the game. 

 

But look more closely at the Dolphins game.  The fish were a very good team and a real threat so McD unleashed the Offense.  There was no doubt that the Bills were more aggressive in their play calling and offensive attitude right from the start.  And I think this was by design.

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

We punted more in the Dolphins game than we did against the Patriots.

 

A major difference in the Dolphins game was turnovers. By the DEFENSE.

The defense forced a turnover on 5 of the last 7 Dolphins drives. An interception, a fumble, and three turnovers on downs. 
 

Yeah, and teams turn it over more when they feel pressure to score. Not when they can play ball control with a lead. And guess what, it’s hard to get a lead when your team doesn’t score points.

 

This is all obvious. If I told you the Bills wouldn’t have a lead against the Pats until 2 minutes left two days ago, you would’ve said “wtf is going on with the offense?”

 

Again, obvious.

[nedboy7]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You have to be more specific.  The offense has been dismal in the 1st half of the last 2 games and outstanding in the 2nd half of those same games. Sure this is a frustrating lack of consistency.  But why are they this way? 

 

Some posters are assuming it's the players particularly Allen.  Others are throwing the blame at Dorsey.  But what if it's neither and it's more about the strategy that the head coach brings in when facing what he considers clearly inferior teams?  A defensive minded coach to boot.  What are the things he emphasizes in the first half? Don't do anything that will compromise the defense and give our opponents a chance. 

 

McD wants a workmanlike victory where the other team implodes and he can rest his starters in the 4th quarter.  But maybe we're not good enough to play this way or the difference between the really crap teams and the great ones doesn't allow you to play this way. If you remember a fully healthy Bills team played Washington this way and dominated by the end of the game. 

 

But look more closely at the Dolphins game.  The fish were a very good team and a real threat so McD unleashed the Offense.  There was no doubt that the Bills were more aggressive in their play calling and offensive attitude right from the start.  And I think this was by design.

 

 

 

Seems to me a big part is Josh not playing smart and adjusting the plays and protections pre and post snap.  At least this is what the film shows from what I am watching.  He is not hitting open WRs and jamming the ball into windows and his WR2 is pathetic.  He is letting Cook run right into the overloaded side.  The right side of the OL also had its worst game of the year.  Coaching has been poor as well. Not sure we can blame one specific thing.   And these arguments of whose fault is it are over simplified. 

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Giving up 29 points to the worst O in the NFL isn’t hanging in it’s letting go and being splattered against the wall.

 

I mean even on the last drive they gave up a HUGE play to start the drive off. All they needed to do was make Jones drive down the field and make him either make a mistake or at worse settle for a FG.  Instead Stevenson rumbles for 30 yards? (Almost getting the Pats into FG range) They had a hard time staying in receivers who couldn’t get separation all year.. imagine what will happen with Evans on Thursday, or Higgins and Chase when you have the Bengals.  You had no real pass rush. I think the Bills even tried blitzing and still failed to get home.

 

Point is the Bills O could score 35 moving forward and the D as it is playing now will give up 40. 

 

No.  If the Bills had scored early and put some pressure on the Pats it would have completely changed the trajectory of the game.  Bills D is short handed and missing its DTs was a huge issue.  Now you could point out the lack of depth there thats fine.  But no way were the Pats gonna score 40 if the Bills had been say 21-13 by the end of the first half which they need to do if they want to have a chance with half the D in the hospital. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by nedboy7

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont know. I dont know how much I buy that McD is telling his OC "Dont try so hard in the beginning with this opponent".

 

Could be that. Could be Dorsey not having the O prepared, and his gameplan/opening script sucks.

 

Of course, tough to say when your QB walks out and throws a horrible pick on the 1st play.

 

So sounds like it's a bit of all of it.

 

But it does all start at the top.

It's not that he's telling them not to try to hard it's that against bad teams McD wants the offense to chew up clock and be careful.  Don't take risks that might lead to TO's, three & outs or great field position for the other team.  Drive the ball to midfield and then punt them to the 10 yard line is a success in this approach. Don't give the other team a reason to get fired up and think they can win.

 

McD wants a certain type of offensive game plan against these weaker teams in the 1st half.  It's the opposite of the K Gun/Kelly years where Marv & company wanted to knock the other team out early using the offense to deliver the blow.  To McD the Commanders game was the ideal game against inferior opponents.

 

But against the Dolphins McD realized he had to be offensively aggressive right from the start and he was.  Different opponent different offensive strategy.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You have to understand Pats half this board absolutely hates Josh Allen and any loss is his fault. You should read the analysis of some of the podcasters blaming Allen for everything.

The other half of this board is analytical and realizes there are other problems at work on this team. 
It’s always been like that with Josh somehow despite leading the team back to take the lead 25-22 it was Allens fault for not being able to rush the passer and get to Mac Jones. 

This is so poorly written. Nobody blames Allen for everything and half this board does not hate Allen.

Take off your Allen rose colored glasses though. He played poorly again. They should not have even been trailing in that game.

 

None of that excuses the defense and this loser HC. Remember when everyone blamed Frazier? We all said now there is no one else to blame when the defense collapses. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Seems to me a big part is Josh not playing smart and adjusting the plays and protections pre and post snap.  At least this is what the film shows from what I am watching.  He is not hitting open WRs and jamming the ball into windows and his WR2 is pathetic.  He is letting Cook run right into the overloaded side.  The right side of the OL also had its worst game of the year.  Coaching has been poor as well. Not sure we can blame one specific thing.   And these arguments of whose fault is it are over simplified. 

 

That is what Marino's analysis of the NE game films showed. Greg Cosell has a different opinion for what Allen and the Bills O has been doing this season.

 

And while you say "these arguments of whose fault is it are over simplified" you seem to put most of the blame on Allen.  Sorry but I don't see it.  Allen was off a bit in the first half (remember a dumb penalty wiped out a TD pass and the Bills missed a short FG) and excellent in the 2nd half leading the Bills back and taking a 3 point lead with under 2 minutes left to play. At least that was what I saw watching the game.

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

This team is not set up for the D to play from behind. This D is short handed is going to get worn out if the O cant stay on the field. That is what has happened each of the past 3 weeks. The O has been a mess, dont let the scoring stat fool you as 42 of the 59 points have come in the 4th quarter when the O finally goes to hurry up panic mode and the opposing D is just trying to hang on for the win. 

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

This is extremely silly. If we score 35 and lose, yes, the offense will have done enough and we should blame the D for allowing 40.

 

That didn’t happen last week. Or the week before. Or the week before.

 

So why would anyone care about that stupid hypothetical, now?

It was hyperbole.  The last 2 games you faced the 2  worst O in the league, the Bills got lucky to come out 1-1. Yes they only gave up 9 points to the giants but again almost blew the lead in the final seconds. This week you face the 27th ranked O in Tampa Bay. Mayfield isn’t elite but he has time he has a lot more scary weapons than NE does. 

[Dan Darragh]

Hard to imagine Jim Schwartz was available and we didn't bring him back to Buffalo.

[Gunsgoodtime]

43 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree that on paper and personnel wise a true # 2 (a guy like Addison who the Bills targeted) would be a major upgrade to the offence but right now I'm not sure that the Bills would be able to make the best use of this asset or that it would remedy the disfunction that we are seeing. 

Watching Addison last night certainly did not make me feel any better about our recievers outside of Diggs, dude was open catching everything and making big plays.  We have failed Josh in that regard 2 years going now

[FireChans]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

It was hyperbole.  The last 2 games you faced the 2  worst O in the league, the Bills got lucky to come out 1-1. Yes they only gave up 9 points to the giants but again almost blew the lead in the final seconds. This week you face the 27th ranked O in Tampa Bay. Mayfield isn’t elite but he has time he has a lot more scary weapons than NE does. 

I know that Pats fans have had a case of brain worms from watching Cam Newton and Mac Jones for the last couple of years, but here in Buffalo when you have a QB making $250M, if you almost lose a game to a team that scores 9 points, we are upset we didn’t score more to make that impossible. 
 

Your takes are terrible.

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While we may not make draft picks there, we sign plenty of FAs to the Offense. So I cant say it is prioritized, or less prioritized by a large margin.

 

The OLine additions we've made this year, just with McGovern and Edwards, are huge. Let alone spending a high pick on Torrence which is already paying off.

 

This is the best OL we've had in McD's tenure, and possibly in decades. So no excuses there for the Offense.

 

And while their performance may leave us wanting, we have enough talent at skill positions to be showing better results than we have been. Outside of Kelce, I dont see any All-Pros or even Pro-Bowlers on KC's Offense. I'd also argue we had lesser talent back when Josh was spreading the ball around and setting records for most unique WRs to catch a pass in games.

To be clear I think the quality of the offensive FA  signings are a step below what we sign on the D.  We bargain shop more often for offensive FA's.  McGovern, a career back up at Dallas was our biggest offensive FA signing this year but Floyd (a good signing) as a bigger one both from cost and performance history.

 

I hope you're right about this being the best O line in the McD era.  The last couple of games it has not but like individual players can go into a slump so can units. It's fair to say that the jury is still out on this one.

 

To be fair we have seen good results on offense compared to the rest of the league.  We're top 5 in scoring and yards.  So we are getting a lot out of our skill players which I attribute to Allen.  But when you watch our WR's not named Diggs I don't see the consistent great catches that I see with a lot of other teams #2 & #3 WR's.

 

As for KC this is the first season in the last 5 where you could say they don't have better skill players then the Bills do and their offense has looked inconsistent as a result.  What you can say though is that the Chiefs have a much better O line and their offensive coaching is also far better.