Has NFL Given Any Explanation Why Flag Was Picked Up?

[Ned Flanders]

1 hour ago, Zag20 said:

The PI with 18 seconds left was very impactful as it stopped the clock and gave them an extra down. That was one of those hooking the waist plays, but hardly impactful to the receiver. If that flag isn’t thrown, it’s second and goal, click running and they patriots get 2 plays before having to kick the FG to tie.

This too, the clock would still be running and Jones would have to down the ball...might not have been able to get two plays off at that point.

[TC in St. Louis]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I just watched the play on the All-22. At the time that the pass was released, the center was precisely 1 yard downfield. He was 3 yards downfield by the time Stevenson caught Mac's floater. I think that, like usual, Belichick's teams get the details right.

That's not correct.  I have photo screenshot of the play, and he's a between 1 and 2 yards (while running) and the ball is still in Jones' hand.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Most games are close in the NFL. Yes, ideally you don't want the game to come down to a bad call, but often it does.

 

You seem offended that fans want to discuss one of the negative aspects of that game, which was a poor call by the refs. Everyone is in agreement that the Bills sucked and played poorly, but that doesn't mean we can't also discuss a specific play that was at least curious from the refs.

 

We all get it. There are bad calls. You don't want to be in a position where that impacts your ability to win. Yada yada. We aren't children. We understand.

That is not the topic of this thread. Everyone understands this. The question was about a specific call from the refs.

 

Clearly you don't understand.   Officiating mistakes.......the vast majority of which are missed calls with a few bad calls or flags picked up etc.. mixed in.........are made on literally every play.  

 

You have to suspend disbelief and just roll with it and attack the next play.   It sucks but it's also that human element that makes the game compelling.     Sometimes it's non-malicious simp officiating that actually makes the games more competitive instead of blowouts.   We see that all the time.  But this is the reality and it does not behoove the NFL to change anything whatsoever.   You are welcome to have these discussions and the NFL loves it when you do.   It makes you feel more part of the team by sharing the feeling of being wronged.

 

But if you can isolate one bad call that you think cost you the game then that game was probably not decisively won by either side.   The only solution is to dominate.   Fortune favors the bold in most cases so teams that dominate most often usually win SB's.   The Bills have largely done that by having the highest point differential in the league over the past few seasons but are an exception because they have laid some eggs in their biggest games during the playoffs.

[BarleyNY]

17 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

That's not correct.  I have photo screenshot of the play, and he's a between 1 and 2 yards (while running) and the ball is still in Jones' hand.

 

I watched it on All 22. Two NE OLmen got about 3 yards downfield and both returned to the LOS. One was the LT who was not engaged with a defensive player (he was trying to do so but missed). Neither had any impact on the play at all. I’m sorry, but this is about as weak of a complaint as it gets. We got calls too. The roughing penalty Allen drew by flopping was far more egregious and had a much bigger impact on the outcome. The refs weren’t great, but they weren’t why we lost. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

4 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Not saying it determined outcome of game or Bills played well enough to win. Just curious if NFL said anything about the call.

And I'm pretty sure Pete Gogolak was the first soccer style kicker in the AFL/ NFL. How about in  division I college Football?

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Clearly you don't understand.   Officiating mistakes.......the vast majority of which are missed calls with a few bad calls or flags picked up etc.. mixed in.........are made on literally every play.  

 

You have to suspend disbelief and just roll with it and attack the next play.   It sucks but it's also that human element that makes the game compelling.     Sometimes it's non-malicious simp officiating that actually makes the games more competitive instead of blowouts.   We see that all the time.  But this is the reality and it does not behoove the NFL to change anything whatsoever.   You are welcome to have these discussions and the NFL loves it when you do.   It makes you feel more part of the team by sharing the feeling of being wronged.

 

But if you can isolate one bad call that you think cost you the game then that game was probably not decisively won by either side.   The only solution is to dominate.   Fortune favors the bold in most cases so teams that dominate most often usually win SB's.   The Bills have largely done that by having the highest point differential in the league over the past few seasons but are an exception because they have laid some eggs in their biggest games during the playoffs.

Just as importantly, it's kind of an idiotic rule and it had literally zero bearing on the play. The Bills missed 4-5 tackles all on their own.

[ngbills]

Screenshot (1).pdf

[oldmanfan]

It was absurd that they didn’t.  Almost as absurd as the tacking ability of the D on that play.

[st pete gogolak]

I think I’m getting closer to an answer. No, the NFL isn’t going to give an explanation for picking up the flag (“just give it to them”).  One poster speculated that it was a lateral, thus ok for linemen to be downfield.  No, it clearly wasn’t. For what it’s worth, Stephenson was credited with 34 receiving yards, not rushing yards. Another poster, clearly a Pats lover, said it was a perfectly legal play because Belichek is a stickler for details (“ok lineman, go exactly one yard past the line of scrimmage but not an inch more”). Visual evidence refuted this ( lineman was more than a yard downfield).  
 

Again, again, not saying in the least that it cost us the game. We played like total crap.  It is just so unusual to pick up a flag in that situation that it strikes me as bizarre.  If the NFL comes out and says lineman was within a yard of the LOS at the time the pass was thrown, fine.  At least that is the league explanation.  
 

Watched the end of the Colts  Browns game. Two horrible calls at the end, especially the second pass interference ( ball was so uncatchable a fan in the stands had a better chance to catch it). Pick up the flag?  Nope. Costs the Colts the game.

12 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

And I'm pretty sure Pete Gogolak was the first soccer style kicker in the AFL/ NFL. How about in  division I college Football?

You are correct as far as NFL/AFL. I’m guessing he was first in college as well. Is that correct?

[Low Positive]

Just now, st pete gogolak said:

I think I’m getting closer to an answer. No, the NFL isn’t going to give an explanation for picking up the flag (“just give it to them”).  One poster speculated that it was a lateral, thus ok for linemen to be downfield.  No, it clearly wasn’t. For what it’s worth, Stephenson was credited with 34 receiving yards, not rushing yards. Another poster, clearly a Pats lover, said it was a perfectly legal play because Belichek is a stickler for details (“ok lineman, go exactly one yard past the line of scrimmage but not an inch more”). Visual evidence refuted this ( lineman was more than a yard downfield).  
 

Again, again, not saying in the least that it cost us the game. We played like total crap.  It is just so unusual to pick up a flag in that situation that it strikes me as bizarre.  If the NFL comes out and says lineman was within a yard of the LOS at the time the pass was thrown, fine.  At least that is the league explanation.  
 

Watched the end of the Colts  Browns game. Two horrible calls at the end, especially the second pass interference ( ball was so uncatchable a fan in the stands had a better chance to catch it). Pick up the flag?  Nope. Costs the Colts the game.

I'm a Pats lover because I got a screenshot of the All-22 footage that shows that if he was downfield when Jones released the ball, it was by about a 1/2 yard? I f-ing hate the Patriots, almost as much as I hate the Dolphins. 

 

The ball is already out his Jones' hand here and the center is a yard and a half down field. It's not unreasonable to think that he was just on that line when the ball was thrown.

 

[What a Tuel]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Screenshot (1).pdf 50.21 kB · 4 downloads

 

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I'm a Pats lover because I got a screenshot of the All-22 footage that shows that if he was downfield when Jones released the ball, it was by about a 1/2 yard? I f-ing hate the Patriots, almost as much as I hate the Dolphins. 

 

The ball is already out his Jones' hand here and the center is a yard and a half down field. It's not unreasonable to think that he was just on that line when the ball was thrown.

 

 

All-22 is not a great tool here. There are many shots down the line that aren't high and above, skewing perspective.

Edited October 24, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

The ball is already halfway to Stevenson there. Mac's pass was slow AF. I counted it. It took more than a second to get there. That screenshot is from when it was above Groot's hand. But I cannot continue to argue in the Patriots favor. F them. So I'm gonna let this one go. 

[st pete gogolak]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Hey, FC this looks like a better angle. He’s clearly more than a yard beyond the line of scrimmage at the time the ball is thrown.  And . . .the red threw the flag.  Again why pick it up?  If the flag is t thrown no complaint. Calls missed ALL THE TIME.

[Unforgiven]

The NFL is entertainment.

[Zag20]

There is so much the league could do to help the bad officiating, but they don’t. For example, it would take about 5 seconds to review roughing the passer calls, like the one where Josh flopped his head back as though he had been hit in it. We all it immediately after the play.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Zag20

[MJS]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Clearly you don't understand.   Officiating mistakes.......the vast majority of which are missed calls with a few bad calls or flags picked up etc.. mixed in.........are made on literally every play.  

 

You have to suspend disbelief and just roll with it and attack the next play.   It sucks but it's also that human element that makes the game compelling.     Sometimes it's non-malicious simp officiating that actually makes the games more competitive instead of blowouts.   We see that all the time.  But this is the reality and it does not behoove the NFL to change anything whatsoever.   You are welcome to have these discussions and the NFL loves it when you do.   It makes you feel more part of the team by sharing the feeling of being wronged.

 

But if you can isolate one bad call that you think cost you the game then that game was probably not decisively won by either side.   The only solution is to dominate.   Fortune favors the bold in most cases so teams that dominate most often usually win SB's.   The Bills have largely done that by having the highest point differential in the league over the past few seasons but are an exception because they have laid some eggs in their biggest games during the playoffs.

Goodness, give it a rest. Do you think you are stating something that people don't already know?

 

Nobody is disputing that. Stop saying the same crap over and over.

 

Fans can still talk about an officiating blunder if they want. They aren't excusing the team for sucking.

[DaggersEOD]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

I just watched the play on the All-22. At the time that the pass was released, the center was precisely 1 yard downfield. He was 3 yards downfield by the time Stevenson caught Mac's floater. I think that, like usual, Belichick's teams get the details right.

So it’s where they were when the ball is thrown…I guess that’s a more consistent place to enforce.

 

Bah…makes sense but still it really looked bad. Dude was almost at the 1st down marker. 
 

I wish we had innovation and/or crafty experience on our staff…

[TC in St. Louis]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I watched it on All 22. Two NE OLmen got about 3 yards downfield and both returned to the LOS. One was the LT who was not engaged with a defensive player (he was trying to do so but missed). Neither had any impact on the play at all. I’m sorry, but this is about as weak of a complaint as it gets. We got calls too. The roughing penalty Allen drew by flopping was far more egregious and had a much bigger impact on the outcome. The refs weren’t great, but they weren’t why we lost. 

The center started running downfield as soon as he snapped the ball.  He was nearly 2 yards past the line of scrimmage when the ball left the quarterback's hand.  I have it on tape and have watched it several times.  Is that why we lost?  Because they picked up the flag?  Why did they pick up the flag?   That's the question. I read somewhere that they thought it was not a forward pass.  Does anybody think they would risk throwing a backward pass at that point in the game?  No.  It was a forward pass.  It was a penalty, and they should have called the play back.   1st and 15. 

38 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

There is so much the league could do to help the bad officiating, but they don’t. For example, it would take about 5 seconds to review roughing the passer calls, like the one where Josh flopped his head back as though he had been hit in it. We all it immediately after the play.

Maybe they called roughing because the guy took two full strides after Josh threw the ball.  That's avoidable.

2 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

 

All-22 is not a great tool here. There are many shots down the line that aren't high and above, skewing perspective.

The center's foot is 3 yards downfield.  That's why they dropped the flag.  Can you not see that?  His left foot is on the 28 yard line.  

[BearNorth]

3 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

And I'm pretty sure Pete Gogolak was the first soccer style kicker in the AFL/ NFL. How about in  division I college Football?

You are correct.  I was in HS, and remember the big buzz about this amazing kicker from Cornell who was a soccer player.  I live in the North Country and apparently he and his family were refugees from Hungary and his father was a medical doctor at the state hospital in Ogdensburg.  Since he kicked at Cornell, he might be the first in D-I as well.

 

I did find this tho - https://ampoleagle.com/bednarski-preceded-gogolak-in-soccerstyle-kicking-p8059-208.htm.  Apparently Texas had a soccer style kicker in 1957.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BearNorth

[Beast]

I’m pretty sure they picked the flag up because the pass was completed behind the line of scrimmage.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Beast