Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[mjt328]

Josh Allen is not going to be hugely successful as a pocket passer, who breaks down defenses quickly with his mind.

He's not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

 

If the coaches are going to take away his legs, we no longer have an edge at the QB position.

 

[Beast]

Just now, mjt328 said:

Josh Allen is not going to be hugely successful as a pocket passer, who breaks down defenses quickly with his mind.

He's not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

 

If the coaches are going to take away his legs, we no longer have an edge at the QB position.

 

I don’t believe that for one second. There was a time when Allen totally shredded a team that tried to bring extra men.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Nah. Not at this point. Josh Allen is a freaking veteran QB. You can’t have games against Miami when he decides to take what is given and multiple games like the Patriots game where it’s his way and not the team way. You can’t freaking tell me it’s not being drummed into his head to take the hot WR time and time again.

 

This is becoming a Josh Allen problem and Ken Dorsey appears to be the whipping boy for it.

I don’t think this take is inconsistent with my point…it’s still ultimately the coaches’ responsibility and they will suffer the consequences if Josh doesn’t turn it around. It will take a lot more than one mediocre season for Josh Allen to be on the ropes in Buffalo.

[DaggersEOD]

I miss the fired up leader Josh. 
 

I think that we may have gotten the wrong lesson from the 2020/Covid season with no fans. Thinking we need him to just be ice cold and detached to win. 
 

Watching him now, I get more Cutler vibes than Unquestioned Leader vibes. 
 

When was the last time we saw JA17 firing up the team?  It’s like he’s a shadow of himself. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, DaggersEOD said:

 

When was the last time we saw JA17 firing up the team?  It’s like he’s a shadow of himself. 

Sunday, after they scored the go-ahead TD.

 

Fire is not the issue.  It’s putting in the work to be great.

[Mr. WEO]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:37 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

So Williams plus Harrison has no appeal?

 

23 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Allen to Chicago for first and third overall, first in 2025 and 26.

 

Draft Williams and Harrison.

 

 

 

Penalty for crusading.

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is the first year since his rookie year where he seems to be baffled by the defense’s presnap adjustments and motions, and where he seems to just drift directly into pressure multiple times per game.

 

HE IS NOT PUTTING IN THE WORK

The second he said he is as focused on football as he's ever been or something similar I knew he wasn't. You shouldn't have to say it, your actions should show it. This was first off-season we didn't really hear much about him working on stuff or him working with receivers. All we really heard about was his social life. 

[stlbills13]

I genuinely don't believe the coaching staff is putting Allen in the best position to use his strengths. He needs to run and be a playmaker. I think they took away the playmaker. He's still a great player but he isn't the elite player that needs to carry this team

 

That being said, he looks unprepared and just unattached as many have said. Whether that is coaching or his own decision is something we'll never know. But he just doesn't seem to have the same focus and energy as he has before. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Penalty for crusading.

 

 

5 yarder

 

[mjt328]

12 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don’t believe that for one second. There was a time when Allen totally shredded a team that tried to bring extra men.

 

Listen to the people doing All-22 breakdowns.  

More and more, they are starting to criticize Josh Allen for missing open receivers and mental errors.  

 

Fans don't realize how much the THREAT of a running QB changes things for a defense. 

They force you to utilize secondary players as spies.  They cause pass rushers to play more contain.  Defensive backs are worried about things happening behind them, instead of just coverage.  It helps open up things for the passing game.

 

Without his mobility, Allen is still a good quarterback.  He's just not elite.

And without an elite quarterback, our offense is average (at best).

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

5 yarder

 

 

How's your guy Williams looked the past 2 weeks?

[VW82]

I recall the run play to the left side going 2 on 4. It was just jarring and made me question whether Josh even has the ability to check out of something like that. High school QBs don't miss that stuff. 

[stlbills13]

1 minute ago, mjt328 said:

 

Listen to the people doing All-22 breakdowns.  

More and more, they are starting to criticize Josh Allen for missing open receivers and mental errors.  

 

Fans don't realize how much the THREAT of a running QB changes things for a defense. 

They force you to utilize secondary players as spies.  They cause pass rushers to play more contain.  Defensive backs are worried about things happening behind them, instead of just coverage.  It helps open up things for the passing game.

 

Without his mobility, Allen is still a good quarterback.  He's just not elite.

And without an elite quarterback, our offense is average (at best).

Exactly. And with a depleted defense you need an elite offense and an elite quarterback. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

How's your guy Williams looked the past 2 weeks?

He's not "my guy." I'm just throwing out options for the "bad Josh" crowd, man.

 

[dickleyjones]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Have they coached him to regress in his reading of defenses pre-snap? Because that is the bit that is most concerning to me dating back to last year. It looks like Josh's processing only begins once he has the ball in his hands. Go back a couple of years and I really thought he was becoming an elite processer. That is where a lot of these issues stem from. He isn't understanding what the defense is doing pre-snap well enough. The reason he isn't always getting to the open man post snap is because at the point the ball is snapped he doesn't already have an idea where the open man might be. The reason we keep running our backs into overloads is because he isn't processing well enough at the line. I'm not so worried about the physical. Okay he threw a bad pick, he missed a couple of throws... that can happen. I'm worried about the mental. And I don't know that Dorsey (or any OC frankly) can simplify the offense any more than it was on Sunday. The plays were there and they weren't plays where you needed superman Josh to make them. 

 

So while I take the "they are coaching him not to run" point. The rest in terms of Allen's performance I'm not sure is on coaching. It's on Josh. 

 

It's both at once - imo the coaches are forcing the issue. He has to learn to process better and he can't do that running wild. also can't be done outside of real game action. Stay put and learn to process. If Allen can improve (doesn't have to be perfect) it adds a new dimension to his game which is a big step towards ultimate success.

Edited October 24, 2023 by dickleyjones

[pocoboy]

28 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is the first year since his rookie year where he seems to be baffled by the defense’s presnap adjustments and motions, and where he seems to just drift directly into pressure multiple times per game.

 

HE IS NOT PUTTING IN THE WORK

 

I don't think it's just him, but granted that if a captain is not, then that can have a negative affect on others.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

25 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Josh Allen is not going to be hugely successful as a pocket passer, who breaks down defenses quickly with his mind.

He's not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

 

If the coaches are going to take away his legs, we no longer have an edge at the QB position.

 

They aren’t. Josh makes plays out of the pocket still. He’s just not running. And I don’t think it’s all the coaches. People seem to forget Diggs telling Allen to play smarter when he took off vs the Jets and took hits.

 

Allen is trying to preserve his body. Plus he’s been banged up this season. 
 

People need to stop blaming the coaches for everything. We have banged up QB and the answer for some fans in week 7 is to get him more hits.

 

We’ll see if Allen runs when the season is on the line later in the year.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Roundybout]

40 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Allen to Chicago for first and third overall, first in 2025 and 26.

 

Draft Williams and Harrison.

 

 

Why would you look at Williams’ film against Notre Dame and Utah and decide he’s worth a top overall pick?

[Andrew Son]

This is basically exactly what I've been seeing.

 

The disappointing thing is that we've seen him win with his mind before.  Early last season he looked in complete control like Peyton Manning at the line or something.  That 's the frustrating part, it's in there.  It just leads me to believe he is not putting in the work.

[Mango]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Have they coached him to regress in his reading of defenses pre-snap? Because that is the bit that is most concerning to me dating back to last year. It looks like Josh's processing only begins once he has the ball in his hands. Go back a couple of years and I really thought he was becoming an elite processer. That is where a lot of these issues stem from. He isn't understanding what the defense is doing pre-snap well enough. The reason he isn't always getting to the open man post snap is because at the point the ball is snapped he doesn't already have an idea where the open man might be. The reason we keep running our backs into overloads is because he isn't processing well enough at the line. I'm not so worried about the physical. Okay he threw a bad pick, he missed a couple of throws... that can happen. I'm worried about the mental. And I don't know that Dorsey (or any OC frankly) can simplify the offense any more than it was on Sunday. The plays were there and they weren't plays where you needed superman Josh to make them. 

 

So while I take the "they are coaching him not to run" point. The rest in terms of Allen's performance I'm not sure is on coaching. It's on Josh. 

I don’t think Josh has ever had elite vision. I have been watching his A-22 for years saying even when he’s competing wow passes there are much more efficient decisions on the field.

 

I think he has always been late to throw. When he misses, he misses behind pretty often. His fast ball bails him out of a lot of issues. He has made a career out of pulling the trigger on things because he can, not because he should. Inevitably it will lead to some bad tendencies and a bit of over confidence in things he shouldn’t. 

 

Unlike every other position group, the QB hs to constantly evolve to stay ahead of defenses. Josh is working through some things that he’s tried to brute force his way through for a while. He’s going to have to figure out how to operate within his self no matter who the OC is. 
 

It is worth noting that Josh is working through his 3rd injury to his throwing arm in 3 years. The day where Josh needs to be more efficient and less of a hoss is probably coming sooner than we’d hope for.