Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Adam Schein makes some great points on this game, though he has a lot of issues with our head coach, and thinks he is holding the team back.

 

I am not going to say much about Joe Marino, I have seen him say this stuff before. No idea if he is a "Josh hater" or not, but I feel like there is some gaslighting going on here. Go ahead and talk about his reads, missed throws, WHATEVER, he got the team the lead with less than 2 minutes left, and we lost. For me, that is all I need to know. I don't care how sluggish the start is(I mean, I care a little) or how long it takes to get things going, I care about the end result. Against a sad Patriots team, I think 25 points should have been more than enough. MHO.

 

Joe Marino is no Josh hater but he calls things as he sees them. And I think his takes are better than most because he at least gives a reason for his takes, unlike most drunk callers to the 'GR postgame.

 

The thing with Josh seems to be a combination of things: 1) McDermott limiting his natural instincts  2) having played a Giants team that knew Josh's tendencies and 3) giving that plan to Bill Belichick.

 

Again, Josh had some bad throws. But his teammates all shared the goat horns this week. Drops, penalties, wrong patterns, then the defense getting led by the nose by Noodle-arm MacCorkle. Do you realize the Pats ran the exact same play at the goal line to win the game? They saw they beat Taron Johnson on that throw the first time. Only a bad pass prevented a TD. So they ran that play again with Gesicki. How do you let that happen?

Edited October 24, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[DapperCam]

47 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

He has so many options here against the blitz, but he holds the ball waiting for Knox to complete his route. Just horrible by Josh here.

I don’t even think Shakir is the hot read. It is a risky pass flinging it to the sideline with the DB there.

 

I think setting the protections got screwed up. RB should be blocking the blitzer. Not sure if that is on Allen or Dorsey. I think the pass should have gone to the RB, but I think this was 3rd down right? He may have thought the RB wouldn’t have made it to the sticks or endzone.

[Boatdrinks]

8 hours ago, Dopey said:

Dan Orlovski showed at least three clips where the hot read was open on a blitz and Josh ignored them. There’s a lot of people that are not going to like this thread.  Hard for many to accept it. He needs to play better. 

He does need to play better, no doubt. He led the offense to 25 points though Vs a team with a terrible offense. They also missed a fairly routine 42 yard FG on another drive. Do I want to see more from Josh Allen ? Absolutely yes. It’s what we’ve come to expect. I cannot get past allowing Mac Jones to look like a decent QB running a decent NFL offense. That’s an inexcusable defensive performance to me, regardless of injury. The Bills HC is a defensive specialist : figure it out. It shouldn’t take 30+ to defeat this version of the Pats. 

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I don’t even think Shakir is the hot read. It is a risky pass flinging it to the sideline with the DB there.

 

I think setting the protections got screwed up. RB should be blocking the blitzer. Not sure if that is on Allen or Dorsey. I think the pass should have gone to the RB, but I think this was 3rd down right? He may have thought the RB wouldn’t have made it to the sticks or endzone.

 

It was 2nd down and I think that is Diggs in the backfield, who is not going to be picking up any linebackers.

[DapperCam]

Just now, Simon said:

 

It was 2nd down and I think that is Diggs in the backfield, who is not going to be picking up any linebackers.

Then Darth Hoodie called the perfect defense for our play call.

[Bob Jones]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

He has so many options here against the blitz, but he holds the ball waiting for Knox to complete his route. Just horrible by Josh here.

Check out the Bills receiver in the back right corner of the end zone…NO ONE covers him at all…he’s WIDE OPEN.

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Check out the Bills receiver in the back right corner of the end zone…NO ONE covers him at all…he’s WIDE OPEN.

 

It's Knox, and that is where Allen was going until the free Mike blew it up.

[ChrisWatson#21]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

It’s totally up to him but we may have seen the best of Josh Allen.

 

There is a chance we have.  He definitely has lost a step or two which is to be expected as he grows older and the hits taken over the years take their toll.  If he doesn't improve his game from within the pocket with decision making I'm afraid you are right sir.

[Green Lightning]

By no means an expert, but Josh seems to have lost his pluck. He's not the ####-sure QB he was. He looks tentative and unsure on many snaps. Like to see him swagger again. 

[3rdand12]

19 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Check out the Bills receiver in the back right corner of the end zone…NO ONE covers him at all…he’s WIDE OPEN.

OH SNAP. there it was. Wide danged Open is right

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, SWATeam said:

But those weapons come at an expense.  If you need to surround the guy with multiple top weapons than maybe you shouldn't be paying him $250M.  Go get Brock Purdy

Why not? I am pretty sure that Josh is clearly superior to Jalen Hurts.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

The Mike is coming free and outside of waiting for Knox, there are zero options that result in a TD on that play.

He does a nice job avoiding the sack and buying extra time with his eyes downfield, but nobody comes open on that side of the field.

He was smart not to force it on 2nd down, take the incompletion and give themselves another shot at it.

Anybody second-guessing that is being an armchair QB after the fact.

 

Also that play is how Allen always handles free rushers. He never hits a hot route in those situations, especially one that is short of the sticks. People forgot how he plays QB I guess? He usually evades the free rusher and then runs for a big gain or tries to complete a pass in a scramble drill. In this case he hit Diggs at the goal line but Diggs didn't make the tough catch.

 

These broken plays often become explosive gains or TDs which is why defenses historically have not blitzed him much, they've learned that he burns them more times than not. Here the blitzer did a good job taking away his escape route angle to the right, but Allen rolling out of the pocket even to the left is a really dangerous situation for a defense to put themselves into. They're lucky Diggs didn't corral that one in, like he has a dozen times before.

 

I don't know, a lot of analysis I'm seeing today is people evaluating Allen as a traditional QB in a traditional offense and that just isn't how it's ever going to be. Instead of complaining about it or trying to take away what makes him special, we should be hoping the team leans into it and surrounds him with weapons that fit his skill set.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by HappyDays

[BuffaloButt]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

He didn't like a lot of things (says Morse played much worse than usual, that Torrance was bad, Spencer Brown allowed two big pressures and Gabe Davis also, that James Cook was "a disaster in pass protection,") etc. He had plenty more criticism of others, as well. So he certainly did not blame it all on Josh by any means. But ...

 

"As I watched this offensive tape, it became very clear to me that Josh Allen really struggled in this game. And I know that nobody ever wants to hear that Josh Allen played poorly, and I'm sure that lots of you are going to yell at me for saying that Josh played poorly, but he did.

 

"Could things have been better around him? Absolutely. Could Ken Dorsey have been a little better in this game? Absolutely.

 

"But I thought the top reason for how the offense performed against New England was the play of Josh Allen. 

 

"Let me give you some themes from what I observed, and I think that as more people study the tape, you're going to see a lot of what I'm sharing here being echoed throughout those who watch film. I thought his processing and decision-making was really off in this game. He had some very frustrating turndowns, especially under pressure. And I thought his whole mental approach was very poor with protections and how he set protections, working away from where the protections were set, not necessarily feeling or sensing or seeing or reacting to pressure schemes correctly based on what New England was giving him.

 

"I thought his tempo was poor. He didn't get through progressions with enough urgency, especially when New England either had pressure or had very obvious route combinations leveraged and his eyes needed to be in different places. He was late to process pressure, I mean they're sending extra guys and it's not affecting the way that he's attacking the play. I thought his trigger was incredibly slow. Once again his average time to throw over 3.15 seconds. That's going to put a lot of stress on your offensive line. And I have plenty of criticism for those guys, but I mean Mac Jones got the ball out in 2.2 seconds, literally a full second quicker. The amount of stress that puts on the offensive line compared to what Josh did is really different.

 

"He absolutely had some accuracy lapses, right? The two misfires to Stefon Diggs, the deep shot, then the outbreaking pattern, missed them. Josh has to get back to taking profits and playing smart football. His average depth of target against New England was 10.6.

 

"There were issues with Josh Allen not getting the team out of bad run looks. Another situation where they're trying to run the ball to a side of the formation where there's four Patriots players for two Bills offensive linemen to block; you can't run the play.

 

"Not making correct decisions on run-pass options. I mean, honestly minus the quantity of turnovers, I felt a lot of things about Josh Allen that I did in that Jets game in Week One. Thought he was chasing some plays and just not doing the smart correct thing with any level of consistency that's needed to win a football game.

 

"And I'm not talking about Josh Allen not being Josh Allen. that's not what I'm saying. But within the context of a football game, there are certain times where you just need to take the profit, you need to go to the smart place with the football. And Josh Allen didn't do that.

 

"Now, I'm confident this analysis is going to be met with some resistance, some anger at me for daring to say that Josh Allen played poorly, and not pointing enough fingers at Ken Dorsey or enough fingers at being able to trust the offensive line, or weapons or whatever you want to point at.

 

"I watched that game, I studied it in depth, the biggest problem on the offense was 17. ... Josh Allen is not perfect, he has bad games and this was absolutely one of them. Missed so many opportunities. And he did some good, there's no doubt. I enjoyed the three touchdown drives in the second half. I did a lot of what he did to get the team in scoring position in the first half.

 

"But I'm left thinking a whole lot more about the plays he didn't make, about the plays that were left on the field, about the times he could have done the smart correct thing with the football and just mentally was not sharp in this game: decision-making issues, protection issues, just issues galore.

 

"You need more out of Josh Allen. And I know that's hard to say based on what he's given you.

 

"But when you look at this game, and that's what I'm talking about, this game, this loss to the Patriots, I thought the biggest problem with the offense was the quarterback."

 

...

 

"He refused to throw hot on several occasions during obvious pressure looks. He didn't have the team sliding in the right direction, just too many miscues. He has to manage that better, both the pre-snap and the post-snap part of pressure, and Josh just played poorly."

 

 

Joe had plenty to say about the defense too. As usual, he gets into a ton of detail.

 

 

Gotta take the good with the bad.  Without Josh, we're nothing!

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

I don’t even think Shakir is the hot read. It is a risky pass flinging it to the sideline with the DB there.

 

Nobody has any clue who the hot read is, or if there even was one on this play. Nobody knows the reads or the progressions or the built in checks or the protection scheme on any given play, let alone how any of that can change based on what happens pre- or post-snap. It's just people creating takes out of thin air. After a game where Allen scored 3 TDs and left the field with the lead there are people saying he's lazy, he doesn't care any more, he's lost his fire, he's gone Hollywood, etc. It's nuts. Did Allen go Hollywood immediately after putting up 48 on the Dolphins? He lost his fire in week 1, regained it for 3 weeks, then lost it again? That's the only narrative you can believe to reconcile some of these ridiculous takes.

 

I don't know if it's the Mahomes effect or what but expectations for Allen have gotten WAY WAY WAY out of control. If he isn't the best version of himself in every game then he's the main reason that we lost. Obviously Allen missed some throws and the interception was just plain awful, but other than that a lot of the analysis out there is based on guesswork or straight up misevaluation.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by HappyDays

[DapperCam]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nobody has any clue who the hot read is, or if there even was one on this play. Nobody knows the reads or the progressions or the built in checks or the protection scheme on any given play, let alone how any of that can change based on what happens pre- or post-snap. It's just people creating takes out of thin air. After a game where Allen scored 3 TDs and left the field with the lead there are people saying he's lazy, he doesn't care any more, he's lost his fire, he's gone Hollywood, etc. It's nuts. Did Allen go Hollywood immediately after putting up 48 on the Dolphins? He lost his fire in week 1, regained it for 3 weeks, then lost it again? That's the only way to reconcile some of these ridiculous takes.

 

I don't know if it's the Mahomes effect or what what expectations for Allen have gotten WAY WAY WAY out of control. If he isn't the best version of himself in every game then he's the main reason that we lost. Obviously Allen missed some throws and the interception was just plain awful, but other than that a lot of the analysis out there is based on guesswork or straight up misevaluation.

Allen has completely warped people’s

expectations of what is good/bad QB play. If he is only playing well, but not HOF level then people say he is playing “very bad”. It’s like people missed the entire drought and became Bills fans in the last 5 years.

 

Allen has outperformed or been on par Mahomes this year, and Mahomes has a way better offensive line, running game and play caller. It’s ridiculous.

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nobody has any clue who the hot read is, or if there even was one on this play. Nobody knows the reads or the progressions or the built in checks or the protection scheme on any given play, let alone how any of that can change based on what happens pre- or post-snap. It's just people creating takes out of thin air. After a game where Allen scored 3 TDs and left the field with the lead there are people saying he's lazy, he doesn't care any more, he's lost his fire, he's gone Hollywood, etc. It's nuts. Did Allen go Hollywood immediately after putting up 48 on the Dolphins? He lost his fire in week 1, regained it for 3 weeks, then lost it again? That's the only way to reconcile some of these ridiculous takes.

 

I don't know if it's the Mahomes effect or what what expectations for Allen have gotten WAY WAY WAY out of control. If he isn't the best version of himself in every game then he's the main reason that we lost. Obviously Allen missed some throws and the interception was just plain awful, but other than that a lot of the analysis out there is based on guesswork or straight up misevaluation.

Greg Cosell's quote about the Bills and Allen is worth repeating again and again:

 

"If your QB has to be elite in every game then you have a problem and it's not the QB".

 

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

What I’ve been saying.  He is not winning pre-snap.  He’s trying to pick the lock after the ball is snapped and is struggling to figure it out on the fly.  To me that SCREAMS a lack of film study and preparation.

 

I love Josh Allen.

 

Josh Allen is dogging this season.

I don’t know what the deal is, or what’s happening behind closed doors.  What I know is he looks like crap for basically every game outside of Miami this year.  I know Diggs came into camp HOT over something going on w Josh and the Coaches.  Regardless of what they spin it to be, I think evidence points to Diggs feeling JA isn’t playing to his ability and the coaches are holding him accountable.

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Why not? I am pretty sure that Josh is clearly superior to Jalen Hurts.

Check our spotrac. His cap hit is still $6M. That’s still rookie numbers. It’s 2 more seasons before he breaks $20M. And 3 before he breaks $30M. 
 

I am actually not as high on Hurts as everybody else. I actually think Allen is a better passer but JH has 3 more years to evolve on the cheap with high priced skill players. 
 

Beane could have done better the last few years given Allen’s cap number and he didn’t. That’s 100% on him. But now we’re in a space where Allen is going to be costing $40M+ from here on out. We will have to draft well and get rookies going much much quicker. 
 

It’s unfortunate, but Allen will have to make do without big WR money outside Diggs. KC has a slight advantage that their best guy makes low TE money. For reference Diggs will cost $12M more than Kelce next year. That is a good chunk of change to be spread elsewhere on the team. 

[muppy]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

I don't know if it's the Mahomes effect or what but expectations for Allen have gotten WAY WAY WAY out of control. If he isn't the best version of himself in every game then he's the main reason that we lost. Obviously Allen missed some throws and the interception was just plain awful, but other than that a lot of the analysis out there is based on guesswork or straight up misevaluation.

 

WORD.

 

We want Greatness every week. We expect he to be great every single week. The hopes and dreams of a fan base hang in the balance. But he is a human FCOL

 

The importance of all  of this is not life and death. But it would be nice to have some answers. I think as someone else stated It is time for we fans to Buckle Up and enjoy the ride every week.  You'll go batty with conjecture. or maybe that's just me. I have faith in Josh Allen. period. Gotta have faith.

 

GO BILLS

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also that play is how Allen always handles free rushers. He never hits a hot route in those situations, especially one that is short of the sticks. People forgot how he plays QB I guess? He usually evades the free rusher and then runs for a big gain or tries to complete a pass in a scramble drill. In this case he hit Diggs at the goal line but Diggs didn't make the tough catch.

 

These broken plays often become explosive gains or TDs which is why defenses historically have not blitzed him much, they've learned that he burns them more times than not. Here the blitzer did a good job taking away his escape route angle to the right, but Allen rolling out of the pocket even to the left is a really dangerous situation for a defense to put themselves into. They're lucky Diggs didn't corral that one in, like he has a dozen times before.

 

I don't know, a lot of analysis I'm seeing today is people evaluating Allen as a traditional QB in a traditional offense and that just isn't how it's ever going to be. Instead of complaining about it or trying to take away what makes him special, we should be hoping the team leans into it and surrounds him with weapons that fit his skill set.

 

I just want him to be better prepared before the ball is snapped.  That’s all I’m asking.  I prepare very hard for my job even though I am pretty good on the fly.