Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

@Simon shouldn't this be merged into the random talking head thread. 

@Simon I think it’s reasonable to have individual threads for all-22 breakdown each week. But at the end of each week those threads get merged into a mega All-22 thread. 
 

I think notable breakdowns of film provide more value than a hot take from Cowherd or Steven A.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Was over the summer. Wanna say it was on McAfee but others will remember better than I.

 

I actually kinda dismissed it as offseason chatter at the time. But others have raised since and.... welll it makes you wonder...

He didn't exactly say that. He said that he doesn't study a lot of what opposing defenses have done in past games because they play the Bills offense differently. Here's the clip:

 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

McDermott must love that the offense is distracting from the fact that his defense just got carved up by the Mac Jones Patriots. 

 

We're arguing that Josh might've left some meat on the bone while ignoring that the DEF had the 2nd worst performance of the week across the entire NFL. 

 

This loss was almost entirely the defense's fault. 

The defensive game plan sucked this week. 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

@Simon I think it’s reasonable to have individual threads for all-22 breakdown each week. But at the end of each week those threads get merged into a mega All-22 thread. 
 

I think notable breakdowns of film provide more value than a hot take from Cowherd or Steven A.

Reasonable point. But it seems we have 5 Josh Allen bashing threads on page 1, all the time. 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

The defensive game plan sucked this week. 

It really did. Blitzing Mac Jones just allows him to use that lifetime of coaching to read the pressure pre-snap and get the ball out fast. You have to make him beat you throwing into tight coverages. 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Reasonable point. But it seems we have 5 Josh Allen bashing threads on page 1, all the time. 

Also agreed. 
 

This week feels as bad as the boards ever been with repeat threads.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

He didn't exactly say that. He said that he doesn't study a lot of what opposing defenses have done in past games because they play the Bills offense differently. Here's the clip:

 

 

Thanks. Well he might wanna start. Because working out once the ball has been snapped ain't working.

[TheBrownBear]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Have they coached him to regress in his reading of defenses pre-snap? Because that is the bit that is most concerning to me dating back to last year. It looks like Josh's processing only begins once he has the ball in his hands. Go back a couple of years and I really thought he was becoming an elite processer.  

It's odd, really.  Go back and watch most of his performances from 2020.  He was light years ahead of where he is now from a pre-snap (line checks, reads, etc.) processing perspective.  IMO, he has slowly gotten sloppier with all of this (his footwork too) over the past 2.5 seasons.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thanks. Well he might wanna start. Because working out once the ball has been snapped ain't working.

Yes it has

 

https://www.nfeloapp.com/qb-rankings/

 

Still top of the league in every major category

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Well that's an interesting comment. 

Pretty much Fields’ comments from earlier this year 

[Roundybout]

10 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

He didn't exactly say that. He said that he doesn't study a lot of what opposing defenses have done in past games because they play the Bills offense differently. Here's the clip:

 

sorry, the forum has decided that Josh is now a lazy slob and should be replaced with Brock Purdy. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, TheBrownBear said:

It's odd, really.  Go back and watch most of his performances from 2020.  He was light years ahead of where he is now from a pre-snap (line checks, reads, etc.) processing perspective.  IMO, he has slowly gotten sloppier with all of this (his footwork too) over the past 2.5 seasons.

 

TOTALLY agree. I don't actually agree with some of those who say "he has never been great at this stuff, it is no big deal." In 2020 I think he was way ahead of where he is now in terms of command of the offense. 

 

Someone suggested above that he was just good at appearing as though he was in command but I dunno. He looked like a field general out there to me. 

 

Ugh. I can't work it out but something isn't quite right. And it doesn't make him the biggest problem with the team. Not in any way shape or form. He clearly isn't. He is still at 75% our best chance to win football games. And he got very little help from others Sunday. But I don't see the field command I did a couple of years back.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Kirk Cousins gives Minnesota a massive edge over the Mac Jones lead Patriots.

And Belicheat playing against a division foe he knows gives the Pats a massive advantage over whoever coaches the Vikings.

 

[Success]

17 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I think the “Josh is lazy,” narrative may be true. 
 

Add lazy to mentally fragile and this is what you get. 

 

Mentally fragile?

 

 

[MikePJ76]

Allen has been beaten up in the last 3 games.  I am honestly surprised he is still upright.  A couple of those shots in the last two weeks he has taken were really violent hits where he was completely exposed.

 

If he makes mistakes I imagine it is because he is not trusting things around him whether that's the line, the receivers, backs, tight ends or the play call..It probably all is leading to hesitation.  I have to think it starts with the shots he has been taking.

 

With Philly, KC, Dallas and miami on the schedule still if this continues he is going to miss time.  Those teams are big, physical and fast on defense.  

 

The Bills offense needs to go out and have a great game thursday and then regroup and make teams scared of their ability to score in bunches again.

 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

TOTALLY agree. I don't actually agree with some of those who say "he has never been great at this stuff, it is no big deal." In 2020 I think he was way ahead of where he is now in terms of command of the offense. 

 

Someone suggested above that he was just good at appearing as though he was in command but I dunno. He looked like a field general out there to me. 

 

Ugh. I can't work it out but something isn't quite right. And it doesn't make him the biggest problem with the team. Not in any way shape or form. He clearly isn't. He is still at 75% our best chance to win football games. And he got very little help from others Sunday. But I don't see the field command I did a couple of years back.

 

Perhaps like at anything, when you are still learning to be really good at it you spend lots of time and focus on it but as you become good then you don't spend as much time on it because "you already know all that stuff" and slowly over time it starts declining and then suddenly you get to a point where you actually aren't very good at all at it anymore?  

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I think the “Josh is lazy,” narrative may be true. 
 

Add lazy to mentally fragile and this is what you get. 

Okay so Allen is lazy and mentally fragile.  Not that by any objective measure his O line and collection of skill players is worse then just abut any other legit playoff team.  Got it.  And fine I'll buy what you people are selling and whine that Allen is playing poorly this season.  Then explain this:

 

Allen's rank among QB Starters:

 

Yards passing = #6

 

Passing TD's = tied with Mahomes & Tua for #2

 

Total TD's = #1

 

Regular QB Rating = #6

 

QBR = #3

 

If this is Allen with all the "problems" you people are claiming he has then maybe he isn't the problem. 

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Josh was really bad.

 

Dorsey was bad.

 

Pass rush was really bad.

 

Pass blocking was atrocious.

 

Bass was bad.

 

McD didn’t have this team prepared.

 

All are true.

Josh Allen was not really bad. People here need to take a look at the box scores from around the league and see some of the other QB performances. Allen’s performance was above average. This is with zero running game, an o-line that couldn’t block, and a pretty decent Pats defense.

 

I don’t care what some geek picking apart individual plays thinks. He’s missing the forest for the trees.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, DapperCam said:

Josh Allen was not really bad. People here need to take a look at the box scores from around the league and see some of the other QB performances. Allen’s performance was above average. This is with zero running game, an o-line that couldn’t block, and a pretty decent Pats defense.

 

I don’t care what some geek picking apart individual plays thinks. He’s missing the forest for the trees.

Bingo.  We're not saying he was close to flawless and we're not saying he couldn't have played better.  But Allen played well enough to win that game and in fact his play in the 3rd & 4th quarter put them in a position to win.

 

[DCOrange]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Have they coached him to regress in his reading of defenses pre-snap? Because that is the bit that is most concerning to me dating back to last year. It looks like Josh's processing only begins once he has the ball in his hands. Go back a couple of years and I really thought he was becoming an elite processer. That is where a lot of these issues stem from. He isn't understanding what the defense is doing pre-snap well enough. The reason he isn't always getting to the open man post snap is because at the point the ball is snapped he doesn't already have an idea where the open man might be. The reason we keep running our backs into overloads is because he isn't processing well enough at the line. I'm not so worried about the physical. Okay he threw a bad pick, he missed a couple of throws... that can happen. I'm worried about the mental. And I don't know that Dorsey (or any OC frankly) can simplify the offense any more than it was on Sunday. The plays were there and they weren't plays where you needed superman Josh to make them. 

 

So while I take the "they are coaching him not to run" point. The rest in terms of Allen's performance I'm not sure is on coaching. It's on Josh. 

Yep, this is the alarming part to me.

 

I don’t at all buy what Allen is selling when he says he’s fully healthy right now. He looks like his arm is bothering him on the field.

 

I’m willing to let some of the coaching stuff slide for now in the hopes that they’re treating the season as a marathon and will ramp up the QB runs as Allen gets healthy, ramp up Kincaid’s usage as he gets more experience, etc. (but if that stuff doesn’t change, I will be quite upset).

 

But things like running into sides of the field that the defense is overloading and generally processing the defense slowly are serious concerns to me, and particularly frustrating because as you mentioned, we know from experience that Allen can do better.