Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Sal makes a good point here:

 

 

Anything to lower the bar and make ourselves feel better. 

[Big Turk]

Orlovsky is saying a lot of the same thing...Bills are very inconsistent with being "prepared" for situations when they don't already know what's going to happen.  

 

The thing that is concerning to me is these are basic concepts of what to do in those situations that we are failing at...like "replace the blitzing player and throw the ball to the voided area" or "read hot if this player is coming".  Too many times the plays are there to be made if basic concepts are followed but instead it causes Allen to hold the ball or try to flush.

 

Look at the players in those breakdowns and how wide open they are right away and Allen doesn't know where the answer is to those and HE SHOULD by now.  That's a concern. Literally it's a simply see it and throw it to a wide open guy.

 

Who does that mainly fall on?  Allen? Dorsey?  All of them?  These are simply base concepts they are failing at far too often.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Big Turk

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

And this is where I think the loss of Daboll has effected him the most. Josh is still one of the best QB's in the game, top 3, but the loss of Daboll has taken it's toll on him in this area specifically. Just the breakdown of what he's seeing in front of him, things he and Daboll worked on prior to game day. 

Well how long are we going to lament this? 

 

He's been gone for a year and a half now. 

 

Goff is going to eventually lose Ben Johnson. 

 

If the Ravens keep producing like this Moken is going to get promoted. 

 

The Bengals have Taylor and Callahan, but he got looks for HC last year. 

 

Bills brass decided to go with a rookie OC. Daboll had years under his belt. 

 

Other than firing McDermott and replacing with an offensive coach, I'm not sure what can be done about it. 

 

Maybe the Bills will hire an offensive consultant if this keeps going. 

 

 

[Success]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Anything to lower the bar and make ourselves feel better. 

 

I don't think that tweet lowered the bar.  It just stated where the bar is.

 

The NFL season is a long one.  I tend to make comparisons to the Patriots dynasty - but even that team, one of the top in history, had swoons, bad games against bad teams, and sub-par performances. 

 

[HappyDays]

Here's my question - @Big Turk mentioned in another thread that in our last 9 2nd half possessions (going back to the Jags game) we have scored 7 TD, 1 missed FG, and a turnover on downs when Knox dropped the ball against the Pats. So why do we think Allen and the offense as a whole is suddenly putting it all together in the 2nd half of these games? All of a sudden he is just reading the defense better or finding his hot routes?

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by HappyDays

[Mikie2times]

Queue the Josh Allen plunge protection team. 

58 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Well that's definitely true. It's just a guess.

 

But I think it is as good a guess as "Josh Allen just woke up one day and forgot how to read defenses".

 

This all started after Daboll left. That is a big clue in my opinion.

I’ve been fighting posters since the off-season on this. Dabs made a point to make his reads easy. We used motion more than any team in football. He ran simplified route structures. Allen has never been good at making progressions. He’s been good at making people think he’s good at making progressions and that’s what good coaching does. 

[oldmanfan]

40 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

Allen is having his worst year since his rookie year, but not all of it is his fault.     There is no one to throw to outside of Diggs.   Knox is having a down year(and is now hurt) and Kincaid shows flashes but is still very green.   We tried Davis at #2 and he is not only under-producing but regressing.   Sherfield and Harty have added absolutely nothing to the team and Shakir is nothing more that a backup at this time.   You could literally grab four wide receivers from practice squads and get equal or better production than our current #2-5 options.

 

Despite all of that, Allen at least did enough to give the team the lead back, it was the defense that let us down this time.

Receivers can do a better job.  Hell, everyone associated with the team can do a better job.  But when film shows guys open and Josh doesn’t get them the ball it means there are guys to throw to other than Diggs.  Like Kincaid last Sunday.

[IronyAbounds]

4 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Why would you look at Williams’ film against Notre Dame and Utah and decide he’s worth a top overall pick?

He stunk against Arizona. Talking about regressing, Williams is having a much worse year this year than last.

[sven233]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

seems to me that the stuff over on the right was like his second or even third read, and by the time he looked over there, he was getting pressured.

 

Except the numbers say the read should be on the right side.  There are more defenders covering the receivers to the top of the screen than there is to the bottom.  That is a pre-snap read and he needs to get to Knox as his first or second read on this play.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Seems you are ignorant. Marino calls them like he sees them. But he is a huge Bills fan and huge supporter of Josh Allen.

Yeh he hates him and I know he travels

this board with his slappys to defend his analysis so save it 

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Orlovsky is saying a lot of the same thing...Bills are very inconsistent with being "prepared" for situations when they don't already know what's going to happen.  

 

The thing that is concerning to me is these are basic concepts of what to do in those situations that we are failing at...like "replace the blitzing player and throw the ball to the voided area" or "read hot if this player is coming".  Too many times the plays are there to be made if basic concepts are followed but instead it causes Allen to hold the ball or try to flush.

 

Look at the players in those breakdowns and how wide open they are right away and Allen doesn't know where the answer is to those and HE SHOULD by now.  That's a concern. Literally it's a simply see it and throw it to a wide open guy.

 

Who does that mainly fall on?  Allen? Dorsey?  All of them?  These are simply base concepts they are failing at far too often.

 

 

 

What I've seen historically is that Allen will hit his hot route when it creates a 1st down but not when it is short of the sticks. He has learned that he can evade free rushers with ease and a lot of times those busted plays turn into 15+ yard completions. So I think for better or worse this is how he has chosen to play in those situations. Do we want to accept a 5 yard gain on 2nd and 10 every time, or do we want to risk an incompletion against possibly getting an explosive play past the sticks? Also keeping in mind that throwing a 4 yard route over the middle to short armed Shakir has a higher potential of being intercepted. Since Allen has always played this way against the blitz I suspect the coaches have chosen to live with it. It is not some new phenomenon for him.

[IronyAbounds]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I don't think that tweet lowered the bar.  It just stated where the bar is.

 

The NFL season is a long one.  I tend to make comparisons to the Patriots dynasty - but even that team, one of the top in history, had swoons, bad games against bad teams, and sub-par performances. 

 

Unfortunately in a week to week league the Bills have 3 losses already, more than the other teams mentioned. You dig yourself a deep enough hole and the week to week league becomes a week to week walk to no playoffs land.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Are the Pats really that much worse then the Vikings minus Jefferson? 

 

And part of Sal's pint was that in all 3 games you could argue that Allen & the Bills offense played the best. Now, setting aside the QB,  let's line up the rest of each offensive unit and see who has the best talent.

Kirk Cousins gives Minnesota a massive edge over the Mac Jones lead Patriots.

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

Kirk Cousins gives Minnesota a massive edge over the Mac Jones lead Patriots.

Well Kirk is making 35 million a year 

[Don Otreply]

Josh has yet to wrap his head around taking the open short pass, until he envelopes this concept into his craft as a QB he will continue to have these poor games, BB knew this and used it against him. 

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's my question - @Big Turk mentioned in another thread that in our last 9 2nd half possessions (going back to the Jags game) we have scored 7 TD, 1 missed FG, and a turnover on downs when Knox dropped the ball against the Pats. So why do we think Allen and the offense as a whole is suddenly putting it all together in the 2nd half of these games? All of a sudden he is just reading the defense better or finding his hot routes?

 

Because Dorsey sucks at game planning and throws out the entire plan by halftime. 

[Mango]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he just woke up and forgot how to do it. And I do think Daboll going is a factor. But getting to "and McDermott neutered him" is just confirmation bias. The @Coach Tuesday point about study is the most interesting one in my view. 

These aren’t new issues either. They’ve been pointed out for a few seasons. We just can’t brute force our way through it all the time. 
 

I tend to talk a lot more about Beane and the players around the QB in the offseason or camp. I have been critical of some of the roster moves with this regime. But we aren’t going to get a new OC for another few months. Gabe Davis is not going to suddenly develop super explosive, all world, short area quickness. There isn’t a starting RT out there for the taking.
 

What we can do is have our QB throw to the open receiver. That helps bail out a lot of other problems we’re having. 
 

I have confidence Allen can evolve. The other stuff will be dealt with in a few months. 
 

 

[julian]

 Nobody needed the all22 to see Allen was off with throws and off with some decisions, yet with that being said when he needed 2 TDs late to win the game he came through.

 

 As bad as the offense was, if your defense can’t stop Mac Jones and a bunch of JAGS you probably need to worry more about the D when considering wins going forward.

[Mango]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Orlovsky is saying a lot of the same thing...Bills are very inconsistent with being "prepared" for situations when they don't already know what's going to happen.  

 

The thing that is concerning to me is these are basic concepts of what to do in those situations that we are failing at...like "replace the blitzing player and throw the ball to the voided area" or "read hot if this player is coming".  Too many times the plays are there to be made if basic concepts are followed but instead it causes Allen to hold the ball or try to flush.

 

Look at the players in those breakdowns and how wide open they are right away and Allen doesn't know where the answer is to those and HE SHOULD by now.  That's a concern. Literally it's a simply see it and throw it to a wide open guy.

 

Who does that mainly fall on?  Allen? Dorsey?  All of them?  These are simply base concepts they are failing at far too often.

 

 

At the risk of piling on, Kurt Warner’s film reviews for Allen have mostly been “just because he can doesn’t mean he should”. And I think Warner is a fan of Allen’s game. 

[Just in Atlanta]

Josh was really bad.

 

Dorsey was bad.

 

Pass rush was really bad.

 

Pass blocking was atrocious.

 

Bass was bad.

 

McD didn’t have this team prepared.

 

All are true.