Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[Success]

There are actually fans here suggesting that we trade Allen.

 

That is simply incomprehensible to me.  Does anyone remember the time between Kelly and Allen?  Does anyone remember Orton, Edwards, Losman, Lewis, Tuel?

 

It can take a LONG time to find a franchise QB.  And Allen is very likely to be the best QB in this franchise's history..

 

 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

Unfortunately the defenses we play are well aware of his strengths as well.

 

 

Yes but if he has time he has time. He is never going ot be the QB that pre-reads and make plays like consistently like some great QBs do in that type of offense

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I suck at recognizing sarcasm and this is sarcasm right????

 

But if you're serious and the Bill's put Allen on the market tomorrow he would command at a minimum THREE 1st round picks and probably a couple of 2nd rounders to.  And there would be 25 or more teams competing to make the trade.

 

 

 

 

if you note, there's four firsts in there.

 

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

Dan Orlovski showed at least three clips where the hot read was open on a blitz and Josh ignored them. There’s a lot of people that are not going to like this thread.  Hard for many to accept it. He needs to play better. 

 

 

Yep, I think Josh is trying to work through a style change where he is taking himself out as a runner.  I think we are seeing growth pains as a result.  My hope is that it makes Josh better in the long run as he has all of the tools.

 

With the above said, I also think Dorsey is proving to be the wrong coach for Josh.  I’d bet that Josh would disagree but it is really not his decision.  

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Why would you look at Williams’ film against Notre Dame and Utah and decide he’s worth a top overall pick?

Pine Barren had to be expressing sarcasm at the direction this thread is going and not being serious here.  I mean if they made that trade I would bet my house that Chicago would be an immediate Super Bowl contender and actually win one in the next 5 years while the Bills returned to the football purgatory of the great drought.

 

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

There are actually fans here suggesting that we trade Allen.

 

That is simply incomprehensible to me.  Does anyone remember the time between Kelly and Allen?  Does anyone remember Orton, Edwards, Losman, Lewis, Tuel?

 

It can take a LONG time to find a franchise QB.  And Allen is very likely to be the best QB in this franchise's history..

 

 

Honestly Joe Marino doesn’t he absolutely positively despises Josh Allen I never got his hate for the guy but anytime Joe does analysis of Josh he sounds like Nick Wright 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

if you note, there's four firsts in there.

 

So you're serious then. Okay but it will feel real crappy when Chicago is competing for and actually winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 ears while Buffalo falls back into football purgatory.

 

Oh and do you think Pegula will give Williams a piece of the Bills as part of that rookie contract?

 

[Mango]

55 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think having a calm and more experienced OC would help Josh.  

 

This is fair. But I also don’t think Dorsey is bad enough that he’s “ruining Josh” or the offense. There’s a couple play concepts I don’t like. He’s had some moments where play calls are a bit head scratching. But he drew up and called some good games against the Jets, Raiders, Dolphins, and Pats. 
 

We’ve been hampered by execution errors. Some of that is definitely on him. But there’s some individual responsibility as well. 
 

We can also upgrade. I think the Bills are a little too far along to manage Dorsey’s growing pains. I think he’ll be a good coordinator down the line.  

[78thealltimegreat]

31 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Put allen in a scheme that compliments his skill set and uncuff him and allen will shoot to the top of the qb rankings just like that.....this offense is a foreign offense to allen and one that is counterproductive to allot of the things allen excels at.....should have drafted a pocket passer with a fast release if this is what our offense was gonna look like lol

After last night the niners are in a Super Bowl window and it’s clear the

league has caught up to Purdy we trade for Purdy and like 2-3 ones and niners get Josh? Who says no?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

So you're serious then. Okay but it will feel real crappy when Chicago is competing for and actually winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 ears while Buffalo falls back into football purgatory.

 

Oh and do you think Pegula will give Williams a piece of the Bills as part of that rookie contract?

 

I'm not, it's more of a thought exercise.

 

On one hand, I'm not happy with his play this year. If you watch all-22s, he's not even seeing wide-open guys all over the field. I don't know what's going on with him, I don't want him traded. But he's gotta extract his cranium from his rectal cavity.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Honestly Joe Marino doesn’t he absolutely positively despises Josh Allen I never got his hate for the guy but anytime Joe does analysis of Josh he sounds like Nick Wright 

I'll wait to hear from Greg Cosell among others before accepting Marino as being correct here. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Honestly Joe Marino doesn’t he absolutely positively despises Josh Allen I never got his hate for the guy but anytime Joe does analysis of Josh he sounds like Nick Wright 

Josh misses a lot of easy reads. He’s an amazing talent which saves him. He’s not a rhythm passer. Not saying that’s a bad thing, Mahomes isn’t always a rhythm passer either.

[78thealltimegreat]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I'll wait to hear from Greg Cosell among others before accepting Marino as being correct here. 

Josh Allen simply cannot have a “good” game to Joe you should listen to some of his previous analysis even after wins. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Success said:

There are actually fans here suggesting that we trade Allen.

 

That is simply incomprehensible to me.  Does anyone remember the time between Kelly and Allen?  Does anyone remember Orton, Edwards, Losman, Lewis, Tuel?

 

It can take a LONG time to find a franchise QB.  And Allen is very likely to be the best QB in this franchise's history..

 

 

most of the people suggesting he be traded are just having a childish contrarian tantrum because it was objectively observed he hasn’t been playing well lately…. And they can’t bring themselves to accept it. 

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

He should but we're in year six.  I think he is who he is by now.

 

Take away his running and sometimes I feel like I'm watching Jeff George back there.

Athleticism and running need to be in addition to not in replacement of an NFL QB’s ability to diagnose and dissect with their arm. 
 

You can get by in the NCAA with it, and the NFL has moved in that direction over the last 10 years, but it’s not there yet. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh misses a lot of easy reads. He’s an amazing talent which saves him. He’s not a rhythm passer. Not saying that’s a bad thing, Mahomes isn’t always a rhythm passer either.

 

It's the same message that Kurt Warner has delivered, our Coaches have delivered: taking what the defense gives you. 

 

They are looking for that diagnosis and ball out to the easy read. 

 

When they see those options on film, they grade them as turndowns. 

 

And if it must be said, these aren't based on 2-3 hour video's where every play is analyzed. These are the general comments they provide. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh misses a lot of easy reads. He’s an amazing talent which saves him. He’s not a rhythm passer. Not saying that’s a bad thing, Mahomes isn’t always a rhythm passer either.

The front office isn't doing Josh any favors either.  Kincaid is a great add, but the other receivers brought in aren't an upgrade.  Watching MNF last night I'm left wondering and somewhat depressed how the Vikings (and some other teams) come up with so many great receivers, adding this kid Jordan Addison through the draft this year which all make slightly above average Kirk Cousins look the part of a franchise QB.  I'm left to imagine just how good the Bills offense would look with a couple of these receivers. 

[mannc]

28 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Are you seriously suggesting that Allen is nearing the point of being on the ropes in Buffalo?

 

 

 

 

Of course not.  

7 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Josh Allen simply cannot have a “good” game to Joe you should listen to some of his previous analysis even after wins. 

Wrong

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

McDermott must love that the offense is distracting from the fact that his defense just got carved up by the Mac Jones Patriots. 

 

We're arguing that Josh might've left some meat on the bone while ignoring that the DEF had the 2nd worst performance of the week across the entire NFL. 

 

This loss was almost entirely the defense's fault. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

My point was not about them specifically, although they are banged up.

 

Just from a roster contractions stand point it's easier to create "the best roster in the NFL" when you’re not paying an elite QB.  The whole idea of the elite QB is to be able to lift up the lesser talent around them.

It’s easier to create but how often does that hypothetical team play in the Super Bowl? Maybe you can count the eagles nick foles Super Bowl as that although that was kind of forced due to an injury they were still paying another qb. 
 

Great pass blocking has felt like the constant for me in very successful teams.  Cincy is up and down based on how those guys are playing up front as are we.  Kc is always near the leagues best in pass blocking,  Detroit has been near the leagues best since they went on their tear midseason last year, philly is near the leagues best, baltimores offensive line is playing well this season.  
 

not to say josh is blameless by any means  but qbs start to spiral/lose confidence when they are frequently under pressure and they start second guessing everything which causes the mistakes to pile up.  
 

I think we made a solid attempt at building our roster by the appropriate model  it just hasn’t worked out so far…a sure thing wr, sure handed slot ‘receiver’ that can move the chains,  solid investments in the offensive line, qb that can elevate a few role players, defense that has a few game changers that can get the big stops in the playoffs. things have been going sideways the last few weeks though. 
 

morse looks washed which is causing immense pressure on the interior.

defense lost literally all its gamechanging players.  Qb is overwhelmed and losing confidence.  There’s a lot of things that are causing bad play to snowball right now and nobody trusts the other units to bail them out

I went on a wild tangent haha but I think the odds of making a superbowl is a very long shot without 1-2 great receivers and a qb that can turn broken plays into huge gains and elevate the 3rd or 4th wr options.  49ers will always be consistent with purdy but I don’t think they’ll ever win it.  

Edited October 24, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan