Here is how I would fix the offense (Listen up Dorsey)

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

i am not overall a Dorsey fan, but he was NOT the probelm vs New England. He called a good game.

 

Its a 3 game problem, this isn't about the Pats game only.  Its actually a 4 game problem if you count the Jets game, but I give that one more of a pass given first game of season and Jets have given most offenses they have faced trouble.  

 

This offense has been anemic, it is too easily defended right now, and that starts with Dorsey.  Player execution matters too, but the offense needs to have an identity and rhythm, and that is something Dorsey has failed to accomplish last year or this year on any consistent basis.  There is no excuse for Cook to have 0 targets against the Giants.  There is no excuse for Kincaid and Knox to be averaging 6.9 yards per catch coming into week 7 despite leading the league in 12 personnel snaps.  There is no excuse for Davis to lead the offense in snap count every week when he just isn't producing.  

 

These are the things that bug me about Dorsey and why it starts with him.  He is out coached on almost a weekly basis, and if not for Daboll and the Giants beating themselves, this team would be on a 3 game losing streak all of which would be on the offense.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its a 3 game problem, this isn't about the Pats game only.  Its actually a 4 game problem if you count the Jets game, but I give that one more of a pass given first game of season and Jets have given most offenses they have faced trouble.  

 

This offense has been anemic, it is too easily defended right now, and that starts with Dorsey.  Player execution matters too, but the offense needs to have an identity and rhythm, and that is something Dorsey has failed to accomplish last year or this year on any consistent basis.  There is no excuse for Cook to have 0 targets against the Giants.  There is no excuse for Kincaid and Knox to be averaging 6.9 yards per catch coming into week 7 despite leading the league in 12 personnel snaps.  There is no excuse for Davis to lead the offense in snap count every week when he just isn't producing.  

 

These are the things that bug me about Dorsey and why it starts with him.  He is out coached on almost a weekly basis, and if not for Daboll and the Giants beating themselves, this team would be on a 3 game losing streak all of which would be on the offense.  

 

New England wasn't on the offense. It was on the defense. But to the extent it was offense it was execution. 

 

I have not been the biggest Dorsey guy. I thought his gameplan in London sucked and I think against the Giants there was a lack of coherence to what he was doing. But I can't throw New England into that pot. It was a very different set of failures. 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I doubt that. It is probably because defenses are playing the run more when they see us under center especially in 12 personnel, so naturally we will not be as effective. But like the previous point, that also opens up opportunities in the pass game.

 

No disrespect bud, but I mean that sure sounds like its "predictable" when you say "defenses are playing the run more then they see us under center especially in 12 personnel" when you are responding to me saying that we are too predictable and that is why we don't have more success running from under center.

 

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Dorsey make a concerted effort to make Cook and Kincaid the 1st read on more plays, especially in the 1st half when we have had trouble getting into a rhythm. It's the only schematic solution I can think of to our slow starts on offense. 

 

This is really where my whole point is.  Cook and Kincaid need to be treated as primary weapons more, not just guys to use here and there so we don't throw to Diggs on every play.  Even Allen said it himself, Diggs is "often" his first read.  Kincaid should be getting at least 7-8 targets a game and Cook should be getting at least 4-5 targets himself to go along with at least 18+ combined touches a game.  Every game that should be the min priority for those 2 along with Diggs.  They are our next most talented weapons behind Diggs.  

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No disrespect bud, but I mean that sure sounds like its "predictable" when you say "defenses are playing the run more then they see us under center especially in 12 personnel" when you are responding to me saying that we are too predictable and that is why we don't have more success running from under center.

 

You're saying we should never run from under center in 12 personnel? That would be the definition of predictable. I don't have the splits but from my own eye test I would guess the run/pass play calling in that formation is pretty balanced for us this year. Defenses are going to load the box a bit more when we show that formation so they will have more success against the run. That isn't because of predictability though, it's just a natural outcome of that schematic answer. And we can then use it against them in the pass game.

 

I don't really understand what your critique is here.

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

New England wasn't on the offense. It was on the defense. But to the extent it was offense it was execution. 

 

I have not been the biggest Dorsey guy. I thought his gameplan in London sucked and I think against the Giants there was a lack of coherence to what he was doing. But I can't throw New England into that pot. It was a very different set of failures. 

 

Still a string of failures by Dorsey though regardless if you want to put any of NE on him or not.  I personally think his first half against NE was still bad, the offense looked as flat and anemic as it had the past 2 weeks.  And while its never one persons fault, especially when it comes to coaching as players need to execute, it still falls on his shoulders to make adjustments and figure out how to get the offense in rhythm, and he just doesn't have a good track record of doing that.

 

And while the D had some struggles against NE, it was also missing its 4 best players.  This game would not have come down to the defense if the offense wasn't so bad in the first half.  So I have to disagree, this game wasn't on the defense.  The offense in the first half was the bigger issue otherwise, the Pats wouldn't have been within 1 score to win the game on the final drive.  

 

I will honestly be stunned if he is still the OC next year unless the offense has some significant turn around the rest of this year.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Still a string of failures by Dorsey though regardless if you want to put any of NE on him or not.  I personally think his first half against NE was still bad, the offense looked as flat and anemic as it had the past 2 weeks.  And while its never one persons fault, especially when it comes to coaching as players need to execute, it still falls on his shoulders to make adjustments and figure out how to get the offense in rhythm, and he just doesn't have a good track record of doing that.

 

And while the D had some struggles against NE, it was also missing its 4 best players.  This game would not have come down to the defense if the offense wasn't so bad in the first half.  So I have to disagree, this game wasn't on the defense.  The offense in the first half was the bigger issue otherwise, the Pats wouldn't have been within 1 score to win the game on the final drive.  

 

I will honestly be stunned if he is still the OC next year unless the offense has some significant turn around the rest of this year.

 

New England was not on him. The first half was an execution disaster. 

 

And yes, the defense is down 4 of its best guys. No doubt. This defense isn't going to win us many games the rest of the way it is undermanned. But still if you want to talk coaching, gameplan and playcalling the DEFENSE was much worse than the offense on Sunday. McDermott's worst game as DC by a country mile. He was awful.

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

How was all that aggressive blitzing on Sunday? Answer - a major factor in our loss. 

 

Aggressive does not always = good.

 

Come on, you can't compare the defense before losing Tre, Milano, Jones, and Oliver to the defense that played on Sunday.  I am not saying McD couldn't have done a better job, but the offense also gave the Pats a short field multiple times leading to 10 early points.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're saying we should never run from under center in 12 personnel? That would be the definition of predictable. I don't have the splits but from my own eye test I would guess the run/pass play calling in that formation is pretty balanced for us this year. Defenses are going to load the box a bit more when we show that formation so they will have more success against the run. That isn't because of predictability though, it's just a natural outcome of that schematic answer. And we can then use it against them in the pass game.

 

I don't really understand what your critique is here.

 

Im not sure I follow here...I never said that.  I said we need to run more plays with Allen under center (meaning less shotgun plays), I wasn't saying we need to literally "run" the ball more from under center in 12 personnel.  I didn't even say we should run more 12 personnel with Allen under center...I said we need to run less 12 personnel overall.  

 

I think you just misread what I was saying previously. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Come on, you can't compare the defense before losing Tre, Milano, Jones, and Oliver to the defense that played on Sunday.

 

Again, that is true. I called this team's Superbowl chance slim to none after losing Tre, Milano and Jones for the season within about 20 snaps of each other. Teams can't just lose multiple of their best players and "next man up" carry on regardless. And the backups (some of them relatively well paid) at DT are bad. 

 

But you have to differentiate talent and execution from gamplan and playcalling. Us getting run all over early on Sunday I don't put on McDermott. Not sure what options you have when your DTs are on roller skates and guards are consistently getting unfettered access to the 2nd level and clean hits on your linebackers. I know people will moan about Bernard and Williams' size but Mike Singletary and Dick Butkus would have struggled playing behind those clowns on Sunday. That is just on "lost too many guys."

 

But the constant blitzing of a QB getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds that is gameplan and playcalling. That is coaching. Mac's average air yards per throw was under 4 yards. Surely then what you need is guys to rally and tackle. Instead we were wasting an extra guy in a pass rush that didn't have the time to get home and creating more space for the receivers to exploit after the catch. It was an aggressive plan but a bad one. They actually started the same vs Miami and then made the adjustment and started to focus on confusing Tua with coverage and forcing him to hold the ball. Then the sacks came. Not from blitzing but from the front 4 getting home because the QB had to hold the ball against disguised coverage looks. That is what should have happened on Sunday. It never did. 

 

Being blitz dependant on defense in the NFL is for dummies and Madden players. I am generally a McDermott guy. But that plan sucked.

[L Ron Burgundy]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not a fan of Dorsey or the excuses he gets...but since the odds of him being replaced in season are so low, this is to focus on what he and the offense need to do to turn this thing around.  And with the injuries on Defense, we absolutely need the offense to be better.  This is ALSO assuming no trades, just working with what we have.   

 

Well its not rocket science even though it seems hard for Dorsey to figure out who honestly just feels out of his depth right now from a coaching perspective.  So let me help him out...

 

1. TURN JOSH ALLEN LOOSE! - This whole over correction after the Jets game is just as bad as the Jets game was.  
   1. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to take less hits.  
   2. Josh did NOT need to run less...we needed less called runs off the snap up the middle like a FB into the teeth of the defense.
   3. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to be smarter and not fight for extra meaningless yards once he made the play.
   4. The bottom line is that this was a MAJOR part of the NIGHTMARES that DC's had to defend against because he made you pay and pay bad when you didn't account for it.  Taking this out of his game has made Dorsey vanilla offense even easier to defend and its taken away Superman's cape to a degree.  Josh is more hesitant than I have ever seen him and it's because he is playing in a way to fight his own instincts.  When you have a talent as special as him, you live with the good and the bad because the good SUBSTANTIALLY out weights the bad.  
2. SCRAP THE OVERUSE OF 12 PERSONNEL! - If we are not going to use the 12 personnel to put a ton of pressure on the defense and take advantage of mismatches, then STOP running it so much.  You are not Belichick, you have no clue how to utilize this to our advantage so stop over using it until you figure out how to make defenses pay with it.
3. REDUCE DAVIS SNAP DOMINANCE! - There is absolutely no reason for Davis to have the most snaps on offense (96%), especially when he is producing so little with it.  
   1. Shakir is starting to earn more trust with the coaches and he is making key plays when given chances to do so.  His snap % has gone up every week since week 1 where it started at 10% and was 34% week 7.  HOWEVER...Davis snap counts are NOT going down, that means we are still limiting the other personnel to keep Davis on the field more.
   2. We need more snaps that have BOTH Shakir and Kincaid on the field more.  Let Shakir work the slot short stuff so Kincaid can hit the seem, midfield, etc and put more pressure on the defense.  Right now, Kincaid is seeing too much short underneath stuff and that is not what we drafted him for.  
4. PUT JOSH UNDER CENTER MORE! - Geezus Dorsey, are you the only person who watches football that hasn't seen the significantly higher level of success and production when Josh is under center vs the shotgun????  
5. STOP RUNNING SO MUCH OUT OF SHOTGUN! - As I already said above, this offense is so much better with Allen under center, and the play action has been a major weapon of this offense.  So start lining up under center and running the ball from there too so it only further helps sell the play action even more.  
6. STUDY PHILLY QB SNEAK TUSH PUSH! - How are we not literally doing the same thing with Josh?  Yes we ran some sneaks, but they are not as good as Philly's and we don't do it often enough.  It should be a major weapon in our offense and practically immediate goto play with 1.5 yards to go or less.  
7. MORE QUICK STRIKE READS! - Josh Allen again on Sunday was night and day better on drop backs where the ball came out quickly.  And I know there is more that goes into it than just saying more quick strike reads (guys got to get open, OL needs to do its part, Josh needs to make the right read, etc).  But its pretty easy to tell when that wasn't the type of call, like when Josh makes a deep drop and then you can see the first looks are downfield which take longer to develop.  
8. THROW TO JAMES COOK! - There is no reason or excuse where James Cook shouldn't get at least 5 targets in a game.  Cook should be getting 18+ touches a game between running and receiving.  And despite being drafted to be a receiving weapon, Dorsey just isn't getting him involved enough in that area.

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.  It doesn't take a professional GM or OC to look at the tape and literally see Josh playing like he has some sort of speed restrictor on his gas pedal out there.  Don't get me wrong, taking what the D gives him is something Josh needed to be better about rather than always trying to buy time to find big chunk plays.  However, there has been a gross over correction now, especially in regards to Josh using his legs to make plays.  And honestly, go watch Allen highlights, its those plays where he runs someone over, stiff arms someone, etc etc that you will see Josh the most fired up.  He feeds off those moments and it brings him to another gear few players have.

 

#Alpha4OC 😎🤪😂

Best post ever.   I've been saying so much of this.  Mix up some more aggression.   Quick pass plays.  Less fn shotgun!!!

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again, that is true. I called this team's Superbowl chance slim to none after losing Tre, Milano and Jones for the season within about 20 snaps of each other. Teams can't just lose multiple of their best players and "next man up" carry on regardless. And the backups (some of them relatively well paid) at DT are bad. 

 

But you have to differentiate talent and execution from gamplan and playcalling. Us getting run all over early on Sunday I don't put on McDermott. Not sure what options you have when your DTs are on roller skates and guards are consistently getting unfettered access to the 2nd level and clean hits on your linebackers. I know people will moan about Bernard and Williams' size but Mike Singletary and Dick Butkus would have struggled playing behind those clowns on Sunday. That is just on "lost too many guys."

 

But the constant blitzing of a QB getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds that is gameplan and playcalling. That is coaching. Mac's average air yards per throw was under 4 yards. Surely then what you need is guys to rally and tackle. Instead we were wasting an extra guy in a pass rush that didn't have the time to get home and creating more space for the receivers to exploit after the catch. It was an aggressive plan but a bad one. They actually started the same vs Miami and then made the adjustment and started to focus on confusing Tua with coverage and forcing him to hold the ball. Then the sacks came. Not from blitzing but from the front 4 getting home because the QB had to hold the ball against disguised coverage looks. That is what should have happened on Sunday. It never did. 

 

Being blitz dependant on defense in the NFL is for dummies and Madden players. I am generally a McDermott guy. But that plan sucked.

 

I get what you are saying, but when the coach is missing its starting interior DL and doesn't trust the front 4 to get home anymore, its no surprise he is trying to bring pressure from elsewhere because Mac Jones has proven to be bad under pressure all season and turnover prone.  

 

I agree, it didn't work, but I also think it had more to do with the fact that both Oliver and Jones were not playing and the front 4 wasn't going to be able to get home like it was in the Miami game.  So I still can't fault the defense, which was also put in bad field positions multiple times because of our offense.  

 

And again, had the offense not sucked for an entire half, the defense would have been good enough to win that game still.  

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying, but when the coach is missing its starting interior DL and doesn't trust the front 4 to get home anymore, its no surprise he is trying to bring pressure from elsewhere because Mac Jones has proven to be bad under pressure all season and turnover prone.  

 

I agree, it didn't work, but I also think it had more to do with the fact that both Oliver and Jones were not playing and the front 4 wasn't going to be able to get home like it was in the Miami game.  So I still can't fault the defense, which was also put in bad field positions multiple times because of our offense.  

 

And again, had the offense not sucked for an entire half, the defense would have been good enough to win that game still.  

 

The front 4 not getting home was very little to do with our front 4 and very much to do with New England's plan. McDermott fell into what I call the Rex Ryan trap. When Rex arrived in 2015 he inherited a Bills front 4 that had been a pass rushing terror in 2014 and almost everyone we played in 2015 was trying to play a ball out quick style of offense to negate that strength. Rex, frustrated that we weren't getting home just kept sending more guys. But if the ball is gone in under 2 seconds consistently it doesn't matter how many guys you are sending. Your emphasis should change to force the QB to hold the ball. It was just a bad gameplan, badly called. Yes - he was missing guys. No - that doesn't excuse the plan.

[JoshAllin]

I don't get this experiment offense right now with them making Allen put the brakes on what made the bills superior for the past few years instead of letting him loose, why not do this 2-3 yrs from now and not when they have had the best offensive lineup in years

Just now, motorj said:

I don't get this experiment offense right now with them making Allen put the brakes on what made the bills superior for the past few years instead of letting him loose, why not do this 2-3 yrs from now and not when they have had the best offensive lineup in years

 

If it aint broke don't fix it as they say

 

[Big Turk]

12 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

That’s the most frustrating thing, and I’m sure what’s frustrating for Dorsey right now. We aren’t making sweeping adjustments we’re just executing better in the second half of games. By and large we’re running the same sets and calling the same plays from those sets the second half of these games.

 

Yes, especailly from protection standpoints...Allen seems under siege in the first half but gets much better protection in the second half.  I don't think people realize how the Bills have been nearly unstoppable in the 2nd half lately...last 9 "real possessions"(minus the failed lateral at end of Jax/Pats games) they have 7 TDs, 1 missed FG, 1 TO on downs after gaining 42 yards(Knox drop in Pats game). 0 punts.  The issue is the lack of possessions since the D can't get the ball back for them and allow long drives and/or scores so they only get 3 or 4 possessions.

[PatsFanNH]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I won't pretend Daboll isn't better than Dorsey, because he is.  And I didn't advocate to get rid of Daboll for a rookie OC, in fact, I complained about the Dorsey hire and gambling the prime years of Diggs and Allen on an inexperienced OC learning on the job.

 

But that doesn't mean Daboll doesn't have his own warts still and they showed up in the Bills game and contributed to him losing that game last week against us.  

Really it was his fault his QB was dumb and tan the ball to end the half? Or his fault an obvious PI wasn’t called?  I mean he had his backup 1 play away from beating the Bills..

[T master]

17 hours ago, Trust The Process said:

 

Bench Davis. Davis isn’t reliable and is extremely limited as to what he can do on the field as a pass catcher. The reason why Davis plays so much is because he blocks well, but other than that he’s useless since opposing defenses takes away what he does best which is go deep. Replace Davis with Sherfield who can run the route tree, has much better hands and is faster than Davis, and like Davis is an above average blocker. 
 

Bench Knox. Another unreliable player with bad hands. Not explosive. Has regressed. 
 

Much more pre-snap movement

 

Allow Josh to call plays ala Jim Kelly. 

 

Need speed on the field. Harty, Sherfield, and Isabella. 
 

Ty Johnson as RB2. 
 

Ditch the 12 personnel. 

 

I'm sure because Knox needs surgery on his hand that may have something to do with his "Unreliable" play to this point but he's not going anywhere, 12 personal has had better out put than shot gun this season they need to get Kincaid going more too .

 

I'm okay with giving Johnson a try while Harris is in concussion protocol to see what he can give the offense & It wouldn't hurt my feelings to try Sheffield in place of Gabe just to see if there is more chemistry between him & Josh but knows Gabe already .

 

I feel Josh is not seeing the field or just not willing to take the easy throws the D gives him, usually if you watch the tape when he throws a deeper route there is always someone open under neath for a completion that could generate with RAC a 1st down or a play that would give a lessor yardage to get on 2nd or 3rd down .

 

I also think there needs to be more QB run plays incorporated they have taken Josh out of the mix to much he is also a weapon that they have started to under utilize which will keep the opposition honest along with the other RB's to open up the field for other pass plays ...

 

And Harte speed needs to be used more as you said .

[HoofHearted]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Disagree.  You want to run designed runs, then roll him out, not run him like a FB up the middle off the snap.  And Josh improvising with his legs is a big part of his game, taking that away isn't making him mature as a passer, its making him work against his instincts.  Josh never was a run first QB, he has always looked to throw before running, but now he waits too long for the pass and has missed many opportunities these last 3 weeks where he could have made a positive play by pulling the ball down and taking off and either giving him a better chance for the first down or at least shortening the down to go yardage on the next play.

So do you want designed runs or no?

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

When you run something more than anything, then statistically its going to produce yards because you still have Josh Allen and Diggs.  But from an efficiency stand point, its not been good.  You can't sit here and say how successful its been when we had 7 points midway through the 4th quarter of weeks 5 and 6 and just 10 points in week 7.  There is nothing "successful" about the offense the past 3 weeks and against weak to bad competition to boot.  We should be on a 3 game losing streak, but Giants beat themselves.  

 

And sorry, I assure you I know plenty about football.  And I would say you are actually the one who doesn't understand the mismatches with a 2 TE attack given you just lumped in production that is heavily Diggs and not the TE's.  Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving weapon, and coming into this game he was averaging UNDER 7 yards per catch and so was Knox.  They are not using our 2 athletic TE's to put pressure anywhere else down field.  The offense still produces because we still have Allen and Diggs out there, but that in no way is an indicator that we are using the 2 TE set to an advantage out there, and if you don't believe it, just go rewatch the last 3 games.   

 

If Kincaid and Knox are not being used as anything other than short dump offs or decoys, that is NOT taking advantage of mismatches, that is a poor use of the 12 personnel set, poor use of a first round TE we traded up for, and poor use a $50M TE.  If we hid the names and looked only at the stat sheet, everyone would say Buffalo needs to draft a TE next year because ours average less than 7 YPC through 6 games and have pathetic production.   And this gets magnified when you factor in the only other target out there besides Diggs is Davis who struggles to get separation and it puts a ton of pressure on the Allen to Diggs connection.  There is a reason there is so much talk we are too reliant on Diggs offensively.  

I'm referring to on a per play basis - not in totality. PAP out of 12p has an ANYA of 12.42 (11p is 7.86) and regular drop back is at 6.03 ANYA (11p is 4.86). Again, you don't understand what you are looking at. We are using 12p, more often than not, to pull defenders into the box and create 1 on 1's on the outside forcing teams to play Quarters, Roll 3, or play Man against those looks. We've seen a lot more 3 than we have anything else against it which is why the tight end usage out of 12p has been minimal. There's a "why" for all of these things, but you either haven't watch the tape or just don't understand what you're watching enough to figure it out.

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

We are not running the ball enough to justify Davis getting 96% of the snaps because he is good at blocking.  

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If he's in on the vast majority of run plays, and is also in on the vast majority of pass plays he's going to have a high percentage of snaps. Who would you want to replace him outside because the guy you mentioned is a slot.

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Still not enough

Why? Explain to me, and provide facts to back you up.

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This has more to do with how predictable Dorsey is than anything else.

It has more to do with teams having to bring defenders into the box when we're in our Ace or Tight End Wing sets. Again, watch the film - it'll give you answers.

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And this is the biggest issue with Dorsey, he just is consistently out coached and is poor to adjust.  

I just described to you how he has adjusted to different defenses week to week to attack what they are doing and your response is he doesn't adjust? Execution has been the issue - not the play calling. This has been very clear. We haven't come out with anything different after halftime - we're still running the same sets and the same plays out of those sets as we did in the first half and the offense has been nearly unstoppable in the second half of these games. Again, it's an execution issue - not a scheme or play calling issue.

 

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don't buy that, lesser QB's and lesser teams throw to their RB's all the time because its part of their game plan.  Cook is far too often a check-down often late in the read progression.  And when you got an arm talent like Allen, he is more likely to see a throw he feels he can make before he gets back to Cook on the check-down, and that is assuming the OL held long enough to get through his progressions which it hasn't been doing a good job as of late.  

Again, watch the film. It's there. I don't really know what else to tell you.

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The front 4 not getting home was very little to do with our front 4 and very much to do with New England's plan. McDermott fell into what I call the Rex Ryan trap. When Rex arrived in 2015 he inherited a Bills front 4 that had been a pass rushing terror in 2014 and almost everyone we played in 2015 was trying to play a ball out quick style of offense to negate that strength. Rex, frustrated that we weren't getting home just kept sending more guys. But if the ball is gone in under 2 seconds consistently it doesn't matter how many guys you are sending. Your emphasis should change to force the QB to hold the ball. It was just a bad gameplan, badly called. Yes - he was missing guys. No - that doesn't excuse the plan.

Come on gunner, you can’t say it had nothing to do with our front 4 when our 2 penetrating DTs were out of the game that were playing at practically an All-Pro level this year.  That absolutely impacts the defense and how McD is going to call the game and game plan.  
 

While the depth aren’t bums, they also are not going to impact the game the way Jones and Oliver would have.  Not only do they provide much more on the interior, but they change everything for the edge guys too.  It’s a night and day level difference to have Oliver and Jones in the middle vs not having them in the middle.  

 

And the defensive statistics support that as well between before and after the injuries.  

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

So do you want designed runs or no?

 

Not FB style runs up the middle.

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I'm referring to on a per play basis - not in totality. PAP out of 12p has an ANYA of 12.42 (11p is 7.86) and regular drop back is at 6.03 ANYA (11p is 4.86). Again, you don't understand what you are looking at. We are using 12p, more often than not, to pull defenders into the box and create 1 on 1's on the outside forcing teams to play Quarters, Roll 3, or play Man against those looks. We've seen a lot more 3 than we have anything else against it which is why the tight end usage out of 12p has been minimal. There's a "why" for all of these things, but you either haven't watch the tape or just don't understand what you're watching enough to figure it out.

 

No no no.  This is NOT what we traded up for Kincaid to be...he was NOT drafted to pull people in and get 1 on 1 on the outside, nor are we getting that with Diggs who is regularly doubled.  From Beanes mouth he was drafted to catch a lot of passes, to be a big slot, to be a weapon...not a decoy.  You don't run 12 personnel to "try and get 1 on 1's" on the outside with a doubled WR in Diggs and Davis who has a limited route tree and struggles to get separation.  

 

The entire purpose of Kincaid was to run as Beane called it 11.5 personnel and make him a big part of our offense.  So again, you do not grasp what we are supposed to be doing with our 12 personnel but instead highlighting why we need to run less of it because its being used improperly.  

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If he's in on the vast majority of run plays, and is also in on the vast majority of pass plays he's going to have a high percentage of snaps. Who would you want to replace him outside because the guy you mentioned is a slot.

 

A WR2 is not a TE...his value needs to exceed "run blocking", especially when we don't run a lot.  Hines Ward was an excellent run blocker, but he was a dangerous WR too.  Davis does not produce as a WR and we are not a power fun team.  So he should not be on the field 96% of snaps.  This comment here is even MORE puzzling to me based on your comments above where you are trying to sell that the 12 personnel is designed to draw guys in to get 1 on 1's on the outside...well Davis is on the outside, and he is the one getting 1 on 1's and guess what...he isn't producing just like his whole career of a couple decent games a year and a whole bunch of duds.

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Why? Explain to me, and provide facts to back you up.

 

Check the stats.  I have already stated why.

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

It has more to do with teams having to bring defenders into the box when we're in our Ace or Tight End Wing sets. Again, watch the film - it'll give you answers.

 

You are literally describing the definition of predictable.  

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I just described to you how he has adjusted to different defenses week to week to attack what they are doing and your response is he doesn't adjust? Execution has been the issue - not the play calling. This has been very clear. We haven't come out with anything different after halftime - we're still running the same sets and the same plays out of those sets as we did in the first half and the offense has been nearly unstoppable in the second half of these games. Again, it's an execution issue - not a scheme or play calling issue.

 

So then every failed OC can labeled as execution being the reason.  If the players only better executed what he wanted to do then it would have worked.  Literally can be said about every fired OC in NFL history.  I hate this excuse.  It is the OC's job to literally put the offense in positions to where they do execute, plays they are comfortable with, game plans that can get them into rhythm.  The fact the offense has been pathetic, anemic, and flat in the last 3 first half of games against weak opposition says everything about Dorsey and how he scripts the beginning of games.  And in 2 of those games, the offense didn't come to life until the 4th quarter where Josh started to do more Superman things and the offense when into hurry up.  Why is it taking so long for Dorsey to make these changes and get the offense going every week?  

 

18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Again, watch the film. It's there. I don't really know what else to tell you.

 

I have, this blanket statement does not even remotely address what I said.  

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not FB style runs up the middle.

Please enlighten me, what are those again? Diagram and describe the scheme while you're at it 😉

 

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No no no.  This is NOT what we traded up for Kincaid to be...he was NOT drafted to pull people in and get 1 on 1 on the outside, nor are we getting that with Diggs who is regularly doubled.  From Beanes mouth he was drafted to catch a lot of passes, to be a big slot, to be a weapon...not a decoy.  You don't run 12 personnel to "try and get 1 on 1's" on the outside with a doubled WR in Diggs and Davis who has a limited route tree and struggles to get separation.  

 

The entire purpose of Kincaid was to run as Beane called it 11.5 personnel and make him a big part of our offense.  So again, you do not grasp what we are supposed to be doing with our 12 personnel but instead highlighting why we need to run less of it because its being used improperly.  

Last time I checked Beane aint a coach. I'm telling you what the Bills have been doing, and why they are having success doing it the way they've been doing. It's just not what you want and you have no evidence to support what you want would be better.

 

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

A WR2 is not a TE...his value needs to exceed "run blocking", especially when we don't run a lot.  Hines Ward was an excellent run blocker, but he was a dangerous WR too.  Davis does not produce as a WR and we are not a power fun team.  So he should not be on the field 96% of snaps.  This comment here is even MORE puzzling to me based on your comments above where you are trying to sell that the 12 personnel is designed to draw guys in to get 1 on 1's on the outside...well Davis is on the outside, and he is the one getting 1 on 1's and guess what...he isn't producing just like his whole career of a couple decent games a year and a whole bunch of duds.

53 receptions for 843 and 10 TDs. If I told you that would be the production from our #2 receiver at the beginning of the season no one would have batted an eye. Everyone is up in arms because he didn't do anything against the Pats, but again haven't watched the tape. He was used a lot as a collector in concepts. Pulling defenders vertically with him to open up stuff underneath. Why do you think Kincaid had the day he did.

 

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Check the stats.  I have already stated why.

You've provided none...

 

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You are literally describing the definition of predictable.  

No I'm describing how defenses align to offensive sets. Has nothing to do with what we do out of them. The game has rules. Learn them.

 

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So then every failed OC can labeled as execution being the reason.  If the players only better executed what he wanted to do then it would have worked.  Literally can be said about every fired OC in NFL history.  I hate this excuse.  It is the OC's job to literally put the offense in positions to where they do execute, plays they are comfortable with, game plans that can get them into rhythm.  The fact the offense has been pathetic, anemic, and flat in the last 3 first half of games against weak opposition says everything about Dorsey and how he scripts the beginning of games.  And in 2 of those games, the offense didn't come to life until the 4th quarter where Josh started to do more Superman things and the offense when into hurry up.  Why is it taking so long for Dorsey to make these changes and get the offense going every week?  

The offense has been unstoppable the second half of games with virtually no changes.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I have, this blanket statement does not even remotely address what I said.  

It does. The film shows we have designed plays to get Cook the ball in open space in the pass game. Should it be more? Probably, which is what I said in my initial response, but the scheme is there.