Here is how I would fix the offense (Listen up Dorsey)

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Clearly this experiment with the 12 personnel, grind it out with 15 play 8 minute drives is not working. This team operates best when it is going fast. Look at the games when they are successful and you have a lot of 2-3 minute TD drives. You have to mix it up is the bottom line. Run the same play, but out of different looks. Do what you need to and be less predictable. I am a fan of spreading the field. Dorsey seems to like to keep it tight for some reason. I can only guess he wants to over crowd one side for a numbers match up somewhere else. Its basically all or nothing when your constantly doing that which is why we have the all to common backyard play after that read is not open. Spread the field, quick slants and crosses. Mix it up under the gun and from under center.

 

He is condensing the formations and bringing in extra lineman to draw more people to the box and give his receivers one on one shots on the outside.  Those are usually the play action passes that Allen hits deep shots on and they have been super successful with them.  

 

Issue is they are so successful passing out of these, the D now in the last few games many times has not even bothered with the run action and just played pass...it's how that pass intended for Knox INT in the Giants happened...Okereke didn't even bother with the play fake and just dropped into coverage. Pats did the same thing yesterday a few times.  Ignored the play action fake and just played pass.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, FireChans said:

This is what you get for advocating getting rid of Daboll.

 

Except Daboll's offense in his second year was as inconsistent or worse, statistically speaking.

[SectionC3]

I agree with a lot of what Alpha said, but my big thing is play with pace and urgency.  We just play slow.  Everything seems plodding and a little lethargic.  Get the snap off faster.  Treat motion like it’s urgent.  Get the play call in faster.  Generate more snaps per game.  We have too much talent (Allen, Diggs, and Cook are explosive players) to want to grind all the time and limit a game to seven or eight possessions.  It doesn’t make any sense. 

[FireChans]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Except Daboll's offense in his second year was as inconsistent or worse, statistically speaking.

Daboll offense scored in 11/17 opening possessions. Dorsey has scored on 3 of his last 16.

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except Daboll's offense in his second year was as inconsistent or worse, statistically speaking.

This is a good point.  Everyone focuses on the magic and perfection of the end of the KC game through our last score.  They forget that we sucked against Atlanta and Carolina and the Jets not long before that.  This slump, too, shall pass, but we have to work our way out of it.  

[Big Turk]

Just now, FireChans said:

Daboll offense scored in 11/17 opening possessions. Dorsey has scored on 3 of his last 16.

 

He also led the Bills to 6 points against the Jags, the worst performance of the Allen unleashed era.

[WhoTom]

40 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

Allow Josh to call plays ala Jim Kelly. 

 

Along the same lines - getting the players involved in play calling - I was thinking that Dorsey might be better on the sideline instead of up in the booth. That way, he can talk to the players face-to-face and get a better feel for what's going on out there. From the booth, he sees the forest; he needs to get a tree-level perspective too.

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

He also led the Bills to 6 points against the Jags, the worst performance of the Allen unleashed era.

Okay they had a bad game. You got me there lmao

[Buffalo03]

Should we give Dorsey your number?

[JaCrispy]

Additional advice to Dorsey- Run the no huddle offense a majority of the time…👍

[Santana]

55 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not a fan of Dorsey or the excuses he gets...but since the odds of him being replaced in season are so low, this is to focus on what he and the offense need to do to turn this thing around.  And with the injuries on Defense, we absolutely need the offense to be better.  This is ALSO assuming no trades, just working with what we have.   

 

Well its not rocket science even though it seems hard for Dorsey to figure out who honestly just feels out of his depth right now from a coaching perspective.  So let me help him out...

 

1. TURN JOSH ALLEN LOOSE! - This whole over correction after the Jets game is just as bad as the Jets game was.  
   1. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to take less hits.  
   2. Josh did NOT need to run less...we needed less called runs off the snap up the middle like a FB into the teeth of the defense.
   3. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to be smarter and not fight for extra meaningless yards once he made the play.
   4. The bottom line is that this was a MAJOR part of the NIGHTMARES that DC's had to defend against because he made you pay and pay bad when you didn't account for it.  Taking this out of his game has made Dorsey vanilla offense even easier to defend and its taken away Superman's cape to a degree.  Josh is more hesitant than I have ever seen him and it's because he is playing in a way to fight his own instincts.  When you have a talent as special as him, you live with the good and the bad because the good SUBSTANTIALLY out weights the bad.  
2. SCRAP THE OVERUSE OF 12 PERSONNEL! - If we are not going to use the 12 personnel to put a ton of pressure on the defense and take advantage of mismatches, then STOP running it so much.  You are not Belichick, you have no clue how to utilize this to our advantage so stop over using it until you figure out how to make defenses pay with it.
3. REDUCE DAVIS SNAP DOMINANCE! - There is absolutely no reason for Davis to have the most snaps on offense (96%), especially when he is producing so little with it.  
   1. Shakir is starting to earn more trust with the coaches and he is making key plays when given chances to do so.  His snap % has gone up every week since week 1 where it started at 10% and was 34% week 7.  HOWEVER...Davis snap counts are NOT going down, that means we are still limiting the other personnel to keep Davis on the field more.
   2. We need more snaps that have BOTH Shakir and Kincaid on the field more.  Let Shakir work the slot short stuff so Kincaid can hit the seem, midfield, etc and put more pressure on the defense.  Right now, Kincaid is seeing too much short underneath stuff and that is not what we drafted him for.  
4. PUT JOSH UNDER CENTER MORE! - Geezus Dorsey, are you the only person who watches football that hasn't seen the significantly higher level of success and production when Josh is under center vs the shotgun????  
5. STOP RUNNING SO MUCH OUT OF SHOTGUN! - As I already said above, this offense is so much better with Allen under center, and the play action has been a major weapon of this offense.  So start lining up under center and running the ball from there too so it only further helps sell the play action even more.  
6. STUDY PHILLY QB SNEAK TUSH PUSH! - How are we not literally doing the same thing with Josh?  Yes we ran some sneaks, but they are not as good as Philly's and we don't do it often enough.  It should be a major weapon in our offense and practically immediate goto play with 1.5 yards to go or less.  
7. MORE QUICK STRIKE READS! - Josh Allen again on Sunday was night and day better on drop backs where the ball came out quickly.  And I know there is more that goes into it than just saying more quick strike reads (guys got to get open, OL needs to do its part, Josh needs to make the right read, etc).  But its pretty easy to tell when that wasn't the type of call, like when Josh makes a deep drop and then you can see the first looks are downfield which take longer to develop.  
8. THROW TO JAMES COOK! - There is no reason or excuse where James Cook shouldn't get at least 5 targets in a game.  Cook should be getting 18+ touches a game between running and receiving.  And despite being drafted to be a receiving weapon, Dorsey just isn't getting him involved enough in that area.

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.  It doesn't take a professional GM or OC to look at the tape and literally see Josh playing like he has some sort of speed restrictor on his gas pedal out there.  Don't get me wrong, taking what the D gives him is something Josh needed to be better about rather than always trying to buy time to find big chunk plays.  However, there has been a gross over correction now, especially in regards to Josh using his legs to make plays.  And honestly, go watch Allen highlights, its those plays where he runs someone over, stiff arms someone, etc etc that you will see Josh the most fired up.  He feeds off those moments and it brings him to another gear few players have.

 

#Alpha4OC 😎🤪😂

Great post! I agree with you on everything. There's so much to unpack when talking about the inconsistency on offense. The lack of usage of James Cook is infuriating. We barely saw him in the 4th quarter of yesterday's game. Instead I kept noticing they had Latavius Murray in there on passing downs. It's time the Bills reduce the playing time of Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox. 

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I simply recommend they shorten the list of plays they want to call - like they would in a hurry-up mode - basically simplify matters so the players aren't thinking so much as reacting and playing instinctually.

[PayDaBill$]

I put this in another thread but I’ll say it again here…..

 

This is my opinion on the matter. Josh is not the problem it’s McD.

 

Josh’s issue is McD’s problem and it goes all the way back to the Daboll and McD riff. I believe   McD wanted Daboll to do what Dorsey is doing this season and Daboll pushed back. Well  McD has finally got his scheme  in place and the offense is killing Josh and neutering his game.  Josh isn’t a system game managing sit in pocket, don’t run, hand it off & check down qb. I’m pretty convinced this is why he looks so miserable and has been having trouble.  It’s just not who he is!  Josh is currently in an offense that goes against everything that made him a threat. This scheme is not a fit for his game.

[LABILLBACKER]

44 minutes ago, Augie said:

The box score surprised me a bit. Gabe Davis had one catch on 5 targets for 6 yards. Shakir was 4 for 4 and 35 yards, while Kincaid was 8 for 8 for 75 yards. Cook was 3 for 3 for 46 yards.  Diggs was 6 for 12 and Knox was 1 for 3. I know it’s not as simple as looking at a box score, but it helps me see what was happening. 

 

You tell me what we might want to try more of.  I’m fond of the stuff that’s working, myself. 

Diggs still needs to be the #1 target but basically all of Davis's targets need to be spread out to everyone else. I'd even make Gabe a healthy scratch if we can't trade him.  Spread Gabe's touches (drops) to Cook, Kincaid and Shakir.

[Santana]

12 minutes ago, Santana said:

Great post! I agree with you on everything. There's so much to unpack when talking about the inconsistency on offense. The lack of usage of James Cook is infuriating. We barely saw him in the 4th quarter of yesterday's game. Instead I kept noticing they had Latavius Murray in there on passing downs. It's time the Bills reduce the playing time of Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox. 

Well looks like Dawson Knox is having surgery on his wrist. So he will be out for some time.

[GreggTX]

More Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox. Mostly more Kincaid. That means more 12 personnel, not less. #86 is ready. Focus on him to shake Diggs loose more. If they still double up on Diggs, then Kincaid and Cooks get more targets in the passing game. Know has hands on stone, but I wonder if that wrist injury isn't part of the problem. I also think Dorsey is not a good play caller. Defenses seem to be outguessing him.

Edited October 23, 2023 by GreggTX

[3rdand12]

32 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I agree with a lot of what Alpha said, but my big thing is play with pace and urgency.  We just play slow.  Everything seems plodding and a little lethargic.  Get the snap off faster.  Treat motion like it’s urgent.  Get the play call in faster.  Generate more snaps per game.  We have too much talent (Allen, Diggs, and Cook are explosive players) to want to grind all the time and limit a game to seven or eight possessions.  It doesn’t make any sense. 

getting to the next play slowly is frustrating. It should be a sequence of events with options .

 Does this mean Dorsey etc are reacting to defenses as compared dictating ?

Seeing the play clock at or near zero last week was a concern,

Agreed C3 , pace is an issue. Which leads me to think communication is at the heart of it.

Confusion is showing on both sides of the ball actually.  aaarggh

[Alphadawg7]

54 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

Your "fire the coordinator" crusade has a new target it seems. How many of them have to get let go before people like you see that the problem is McDermott? Or are we still going to blame Leslie Frazier this year too? Poor Clappy can't get the players to unlearn all the poor habits Frazier instilled in them so quickly!

Um not sure what you are talking about given defense was much better under McD before the injuries.  
 

Unless you think 2nd in points allowed, 1st in interceptions, 1st in sacks, 1st in turnovers, and 1st in points differential is somehow worse than Frazier.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[ProcessTruster]

wow the flamethrowers are really out today....

[QB Bills]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Um not sure what you are talking about given defense was much better under McD before the injuries.  
 

Unless you think 2nd in points allowed, 1st in interceptions, 1st in sacks, 1st in turnovers, and 1st in points differential is somehow worse than Frazier.

Dude they were second in pts allowed last year (granted with one less game played..but still likely finish there) and first the year before. They've also played a bunch of tomato can offenses outside of Miami so far this year.

 

Seriously asking, do you not see how silly it is to continually blame coordinators when the common denominator is one guy?