Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I have a couple questions to the Josh being the problem people. Do you think we will ever win a Super Bowl with McDermott as the coach? Do you think you could win a Super Bowl with Josh Allen at QB?

[97bills]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

He’s a unicorn with its horn being chopped off to appease the archaic notion of complementary football. 

This.. just think back two seasons ago when they tried that with Lamar Jackson. That didn’t work out, so finally they said just play your game. Same thing with allen , he’s been playing that style of football for years now, and now you want to change him .. it’s making him second guess what he’s doing, let him play his game , your going to get some great plays and some bad plays, but we’ve all seen he’s going to have way more great plays. 

[damj]

3 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

[Ray Finkel]

3 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

He does not scan the field like he did a couple of years ago.  This started last year.  I believe part of the problem is he doesn’t trust his line.  Just my opinion.

[ALG1130]

16 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Multiple things can exist - Josh can play a bad game, he can still be one of the best QB's in the league, he can be the Bills QB, the coaches can suck. 99% of people on here love JA. Some get super sensitive if you say anything wrong about him. He would be the first to admit he wants 90% of that game back. 

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Aimee75

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I believe most offensive coordinators are only as good/bad as their QBs. 
 

 

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Those delayed blitzes have our whole offense rattled it seems josh included…I think he’s not really sure when he can hold the ball and attack downfield and when he’s gotta dump it off quick anymore. Sometimes he diagnoses a quick blitz effectively and throws it hot…sometimes a delayed blitz turns into a jailbreak type scenario because nobody can block anybody despite it being ‘delayed’ lol

 

silver lining if we end up powering through this we’ll be a better team for it.  That is a decently big ‘if’ though at this time 

still think this is the best josh we’ve seen I kind of feel bad for him honestly…he’s not perfect by any means but the last 3 weeks have been the typical games in past years where he’s absolutely awful and this year he’s played pretty well.  the stats won’t reflect it though

This is a fair take and I agree, in past season Josh would have turned these games into the Jets game. 
 

He’s not terrible. He’s really good. There’s sometimes an ebb and flow to QB’s in the NFL. Unlike other positions groups, the QB has to constant evolve. Right now we’re going through somethings Josh has been stagnant on and other teams are taking advantage. Add on some issues at WR, OL and general focus, and here we are. 

We just have to get hot at the right time. 

3 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

The perceived rate of “trolls” on this board are way higher than it is in reality. 
 

I also don’t think there’s (many?) any 6 year grudges on the board because we “picked the wrong Josh”.

[ngbills]

14 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

I dont know. For every negative JA post there are at least 10x more Dorsey, McD, need weapons, need tjis or that. A new QB is what I see being discussed the least on this board. 

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

“Josh’s 3 points at half also put the Bills in position to lose the game”

 

Those are your words right? Sure  sounds like you are putting all the blame on him to me. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Nice. Choosing to leave out a huge part of my statement in order to further you stance. Here's my complete statement (again, with the underlines and bold print to assist you):

 

Josh's 3 points in the first half also put the Bills in position to lose that game. This is a team sport, the fails don't fall solely on anyone. I love Josh, he's the QB I want for this team, but the offense has been putrid for the last 3 weeks, and bad for 5 of the 7 games. Josh deserves part of the blame for this as well, no?

 

Bro, just admit to yourself that you made a mistake and move on. It's for the best.

[gobills404]

He’s not the problem, he just hasn’t consistently been the put-the-team-on-his-back solution in a while. 

[Ray Finkel]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

His pick yesterday was a high-low concept the Bills run like 10 times per game. If the DB takes the underneath guy, then Allen is supposed to throw to the high guy. If the DB takes the high guy, then Allen is supposed to throw to the underneath guy.

 

Peppers said in his post game that he recognized the play and knew he was going to get a pick. He knew Allen was going to throw to the high receiver before he had even thrown it.

 

That is on Dorsey IMO. If the DB on the other team knows the plays well enough that they know exactly where the QB is gonna throw it, then that is a problem.

Getting outcoached often lately.

[2003Contenders]

I do sense a bit of loss in confidence on Josh's part -- but I think it is confidence he has lost in his teammates and play calling rather than confidence in himself. It's hard to blame him. Yesterday, he had trouble setting his feet before seeing pressure in his face. One play in particular we had 6 OL -- and a pass rusher STILL managed to get through. Meanwhile our own pass rush failed to pressure Jones really at all -- but that is a different topic...

 

One thing I noticed/remember back in 2020 was how Josh's receivers were going all out to reel in difficult/contested catches for him. In particular, I remember the season opener against the Jets back then when he had a couple of bone-headed fumbles but still managed to fit the ball into tight windows and wound up with his first 300-yard game of his career. That was followed the next week by his first 400-yard game (against Miami). I thought at the time that perhaps it was the "Diggs" effect, as this was Diggs' first season with the Bills, he was making great catches and the emphasis was also rubbing off on other guys.

 

It seems that we just are not seeing those great bale-out catches this year. Even from Diggs, who HAS been remarkable in 2023. For example, while Diggs had that great play on the TD, he also failed to haul in a couple of slightly off-target throws that we have seen him catch multiple times in the past. At the end of the game, Josh threw possibly his finest pass of the season with 12 seconds left, a pass that went 50 yards in the air on a rope that hit Diggs right in the hands. Was a torch like that easy to handle? Certainly not, but we have seen Diggs catch similar passes many times (in the final seconds against Detroit last Thanksgiving, for example). A catch there would have set us up at the 30 yard line with one play to go. A pass from the 30 yard line is by no means a sure thing -- but it is also not a Hail Mary.

 

The play calling is off -- but so is the design of far too many plays. It really does seem like everything the offense does seems to take so much effort. We saw the stat line showing how much more effective Josh is when the ball comes out of his hand quickly. Yet we see so few well constructed quick-hitting slants, etc. Maybe much of this is on Josh as he wants to forego such a play and try for something bigger downfield. There were times when he was flushed from the pocket and was unable to see an open receiver on the other side of the field -- but there were also far too many plays where he alluded a pass rusher, rolled out and every receiver was covered. It just seems like the receivers just are not getting separation on a consistent basis. Not sure how much of this is play design (like 3 receivers in the same vicinity) and how much of it is lack of talent from receivers not named Diggs. And, for the love of God, can we stop going to Knox in critical situations?

 

It is promising that Kincaid was such a factor yesterday -- and his hands appear to be for real. Maybe Josh will form a trust with him similar to what he had with Beasley and help get this offense back in gear.

[Ray Finkel]

Let the gunslinger gunsling 

[LEBills]

I still think Josh can be the top QB in the league when he wants to be. And I think he is probably an ok leader behind the scenes and in the huddle. But I’ve been watching Josh for a long time and I don’t see the fire I saw when he was at Wyoming or just before 13 seconds struck. I think a little part of it is him feeling like he made it…which he has.

 

But I think that is mostly on coaching. Without Daboll I don’t think anyone on the offensive side has the nuts to tell Josh to do better and tell him what he could do (except Stef but he is not a coach). That is the biggest problem imo. Just once I would like to see the camera pan to the sideline and have a coach sitting next to Josh looking at one of those tablets( what does Joe Brady even look like?). Or see him up huddling with his teammates getting them psyched up….Josh could be doing more but he is not the problem. Offensive coaching is the problem. But this is all jmo

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't buy that. If they have 100-1000 posts, it's likely trolls. Some are pretty obvious. I won't name names, but I could name some that I have no doubt are. I also disagree with you about a six year grudge. There really is no good/sensible reason to not appreciate the guy who pretty much puts the team on his back and takes the team further than they would go with someone else. I feel like Bills fans(some, not all) have some sort of losers mentality and would prefer to go back to mediocrity, because that is safer and you don't have to get your hopes up.

 

I am sorry Mango, but I think this applies to you too. I literally saw you going on for pages upon pages about Josh knocking up a bartender and the whole situation with Brittany, and what you heard at a wedding etc I definitely think people gun for him a little over here, and for things that are not Football related.

Well, the "need weapons" is one of the few things I do agree with and that should have been addressed in the off season, but here we are.

Troll seems to be a popular way for people to discredit anybodies opinion they don’t like without any dialogue. 
 

Less than 1000 posts? I had less than 1000 at one point. Everybody did. If you posted once per day it would take nearly 3 years to get out of troll status. That’s a really unfair standard to hold posters to. There has been a lot of new posters in who have provided some pretty solid feedback. 
 

I’m not holding any grudge. I like Josh. I want him to be better in a few areas. And yes those are things people told me. WTF do you want.
 

You aren’t even having conversations on this board. Unpopular opinions are trolls. And if they aren’t trolls they’re holding a 6 year grudge over the wrong Josh. There’s no good faith back and forth on your part. 
 

You aren’t the gatekeeper of legitimacy. This drives me bonkers. 

[Teddy KGB]

[Billever76]

4 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Josh put us in position to win the game and yet again the defense **** the bed and that falls solely on McD. 

At this point EVERYTHING falls on McDermott...he has had 7 seasons here and this team isn't as good as it should be...he has single handily handicapped our offense with focusing most of the high draft picks and FA money (cough cough von) on the defensive side of the ball and he turned around and gave Ken freaking dorsey the keys to the offense...and allen not running? We all know that fits perfectly into the ultra conservative McDermotts process hand book

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, somnus00 said:

Josh's 3 points in the first half also put the Bills in position to lose that game. This is a team sport, the fails don't fall solely on anyone. I love Josh, he's the QB I want for this team, but the offense has been putrid for the last 3 weeks, and bad for 5 of the 7 games. Josh deserves part of the blame for this as well, no?

They offense scores when they run no huddle. When they do that, Josh is calling the plays, and they look like the 2020-2021 Bills. When Dorsey calls them the other 50-55 minutes of the game, they look horrible. This isn't exactly the Da Vinci Code or a Rubik's cube. 

[4merper4mer]

5 hours ago, Westside said:

These people think that getting rid of Josh will solve all the problems. 

A grand total of zero people have remotely suggested getting rid of Josh.  Not one.  Anyone who dares suggest he might not be a Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan, Ali, Pele and Tendulkar rolled into one is met with derision of the highest order.  It’s weird.

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Boy did I hit a nerve or what? 🙄I have my own thoughts and opinions and am entitled to them, and people can feel free to disagree. I just think when you start getting into a players personal life, you get an idea of why there are some biases.

 

 

I gave a reasonably soft yet direct response without a whole lot of emotion or a at name calling.
 

Again. Stop trying to delegitimize the posters here and have conversations about the topics at hand.

 

So far we’ve talked no football but you’ve mentioned that:

 

- people who have less than 1000 posts  and have an unpopular opinion are trolls.

- people who talk negatively about Josh are holding a 6 year grudge.

- pointing any of this out is overly emotional (“hit a nerve”)

 

Can we please stop putting down posters and start having legitimate conversations about the play and personnel of this football team. Sheesh.