Bills vs Tampa Bay. On to Week 8

[ALG1130]

15 minutes ago, Negan said:

Just took Bucs ML +280, not bad value there.

 

We've see this offense we know this team... might as well make some money off them.

 

I'm sure Mike Evans will go nuclear Thursday night too, with Baker dominant.

 

I can already hear the Boo's after the first 3 and out Thursday night on the first possession.

I keep thinking this could be a "bounce back" game, and then I realize The Bucs are competent and have Evans. I think our D is going to get shredded.

 

After this one, we get to go against Burrow and Chase and Higgins. Sigh.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right, sometimes bad decisions are part of the Josh Allen ride. Chucking it down field when there are better options, run or pass, has always been apart of Josh’s game. 
 

Allen ran the ball more in 16 games last year than he did in 17 any other year. Dorsey has been Allen’s coach since the 2019 season. He has coached Josh’s run game for basically his entire career. All of those things combined are going to make me very slow to be convinced that Ken Dorsey woke up one day and was like “you know what Josh, do the exact opposite thing we’ve been talking about since 2019”. 
 

People act like Dorsey hasn’t been influencing Allen’s game his entire career as his QB coach, and he’s just some dude who came off the street and entered Josh’s life out of nowhere.
 

 

 

Allen still doesn't have a game with 8 rushes this year...last year by this time he has 4 of those, including 3 with double digit rushes.  Yesterday was the most he has ran this year with 7 rushes and 3 of those were sneaks, and another was on the last lateral play.  Those aren't really runs.  Out of Allen's 29 rushes this year, how many are sneaks? 8 or 9?  Plus that lateral run?  This means he has been running BY FAR at career low numbers this year. Him with under 3 true rushes/scrambles a game IS A PROBLEM for both him and the offense.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

How much are the Bucs favored by?

[MAJBobby]

Will we see some down field passing thursday?

 

Or will they continue to ignore 15-30 yards because they are scared of the Shell? Like it is still 2000s

[Mango]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Allen still doesn't have a game with 8 rushes this year...last year by this time he has 4 of those, including 3 with double digit rushes.  Yesterday was the most he has ran and 3 of those were sneaks, and another was on the last lateral play.  Those aren't really runs.  Out of Allen's 29 rushes this year, how many are sneaks? 8 or 9?  Plus that lateral run?  This means he has been running BY FAR at career lows. Him with under 3 true rushes/scrambles a game IS A PROBLEM for both him and the offense.

Cool, let’s have a reasonable conversation with Josh Allen’s decision making. That seems to be a problem with him this year in both the pass and run game. It’s a problem he’s had throughout his career.  

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

How much are the Bucs favored by?

Funny enough, the Bills are still favored by 7.5.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Mango said:

Cool, let’s have a reasonable conversation with Josh Allen’s decision making. That seems to be a problem with him this year in both the pass and run game. It’s a problem he’s had throughout his career.  

Yep still a major problem.  Also lets not add seems to be late on throws now this season as well. 

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Bills simply need to start faster in the 1st half and a lot of this goes away.  

 

The last 9 "real" possessions in the 2nd half of the last 3 games? 7 TDs, 1 missed FG, 1 turnover on downs after gaining 42 yards and going for it on 4th down in NE territory.  That's high level production.  If anything, the D not giving them more opportunities in the 2nd half and allowing far too many long drives is killing them. If the D gets a stop or 2 in any of those games, the Bills win going away.

 

Simply need to get this going earlier and stop trying to force Allen to be a Herbert clone.

This is a huge and underappreciated factor in the Offenses problems.  The opposition is forcing the Bills offense to take long, time consuming drives.  So when the D allows the opponents O to go on long drives that chew up time that leads to a couple of less offensive possessions and scoring opportunities.  Against the Giants didn't we have only 3 possessions the whole 2nd half?

 

 

[Big Turk]

18 minutes ago, Mango said:

Cool, let’s have a reasonable conversation with Josh Allen’s decision making. That seems to be a problem with him this year in both the pass and run game. It’s a problem he’s had throughout his career.  

 

That's fair, but I think it's pretty clear with all of the comments coming from all sides before the season and during training camp that has been a HUGE area of emphasis and they likely have not figured out a way to compensate properly for it.  

 

He is SCARED to run now...or at the very least discouraged from running.  Those throws downfield while he is on the run outside of the pocket he used to make all the time? They aren't there because defenders don't respect him running anymore and don't think he is going to do it...they just turn and run with the receivers now and force much tighter window throws. A few runs on those early in the game would loosen all of that up.

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a huge and underappreciated factor in the Offenses problems.  The opposition is forcing the Bills offense to take long, time consuming drives.  So when the D allows the opponents O to go on long drives that chew up time that leads to a couple of less offensive possessions and scoring opportunities.  Against the Giants didn't we have only 3 possessions the whole 2nd half?

 

 

 

Yes...D is allowing too many long drives and too many 3rd down conversions.  They do well getting teams to 3rd downs but not getting off the field which is hurting them more than if they would let teams get 1st downs quicker and then force FG's later in the drives. Basically when the D is playing OK in the 1st half, the O is sucking and when the O starts playing good in the 2nd half, the D starts sucking.  They need to get in sync as a team and play complimentary football...

 

When you hear McD say they aren't playing complimentary football, this is what he means...when the O is playing well, the D isn't getting them the ball back and when the D is playing well and getting the ball back for Allen and company on offense, they are going 3 and out too much.  Need to start feeding off each other.  Both sides have been disjointed the last few weeks.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[MAJBobby]

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a huge and underappreciated factor in the Offenses problems.  The opposition is forcing the Bills offense to take long, time consuming drives.  So when the D allows the opponents O to go on long drives that chew up time that leads to a couple of less offensive possessions and scoring opportunities.  Against the Giants didn't we have only 3 possessions the whole 2nd half?

 

 

The Defense is not forcing anything.  The Bills Offense is Settling for those long time consuming drives.  THAT IS THEIR OFFENSE this year, the 15-30 yard routes are out of it. because they are scared of the Shell

[zow2]

I watched their Detroit game.  Baker missed 3 bombs that would've been TD's to Evans and Godwin by inches.  Just barely overthrows.  I worry he could easily hit a couple of those against us.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

The Defense is not forcing anything.  The Bills Offense is Settling for those long time consuming drives.  THAT IS THEIR OFFENSE this year, the 15-30 yard routes are out of it. because they are scared of the Shell

Your lack of comprehension here is startling.  The only choice the Bill's O has is to go on those long drives based on what the D is giving them.  You know the things that you and your fellow travelers repeatedly claim Allen won't take.

 

The point then is that it's on the D to force more 3 & outs as a way to give the Bills O a couple of more possessions.  When the D was forcing a lot of TO's earlier in the season it covered up the problem of opposing offenses converting to many 3rd downs and chewing up clock and gaining field position even on non-scoring drives.

 

 

[Success]

A "Get Righter" if there ever was one..

 

I simply don't see us losing this game, unless I've entered a parallel universe where nothing that formerly made sense does anymore.

 

Get a mini-bye, then a chance at the Bengals again. That's a team that is struggling as bad us we are.  We can right this ship in the next few weeks..

 

[zow2]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The Defense is not forcing anything.  The Bills Offense is Settling for those long time consuming drives.  THAT IS THEIR OFFENSE this year, the 15-30 yard routes are out of it. because they are scared of the Shell

 

Another talking point on ESPN this morning, Josh Allen's yards per completion yesterday was something like 3.8.  His yards per incompletion was around 19.5.  They tried to make the point that Allen is just chucking the ball downfield recklessly.  

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Your lack of comprehension here is startling.  The only choice the Bill's O has is to go on those long drives based on what the D is giving them.  You know the things that you and your fellow travelers repeatedly claim Allen won't take.

 

The point then is that it's on the D to force more 3 & outs as a way to give the Bills O a couple of more possessions.  When the D was forcing a lot of TO's earlier in the season it covered up the problem of opposing offenses converting to many 3rd downs and chewing up clock and gaining field position even on non-scoring drives.

 

 

I dont lack anything.  

 

SO the Defense is giving them only 5 to 10 yard routes, You know who else did the same things, Raiders, Commanders, Dolphins.  You  know the difference the offense wasnt scared and still had those 15-30 yard routes and THREW them.  I get it I guess we are still in the day and age of the fan that the Defense runs the NFL. 

 

It only runs the GAME if you allow it to run the game.  This team allows the other teams to Dictate, not the other way around.  Good Teams DICTATE themselves not play the opponents game

 

Case in point. Shell two high Diggs ran RIGHT by them 

Late Shell and they threw right into it Diggs almost makes the diving catch.  When you play scared the coach speak is well we took what the defense gave us. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Success said:

A "Get Righter" if there ever was one..

 

I simply don't see us losing this game, unless I've entered a parallel universe where nothing that formerly made sense does anymore.

 

Get a mini-bye, then a chance at the Bengals again. That's a team that is struggling as bad us we are.  We can right this ship in the next few weeks..

 

 

After the Giants game and yesterday I could definitely see the Bills losing. I don't think they will, but the Bucs have enough talent to get the win especially with the way the Bills have been playing.

[Another Fan]

Pretty sure this is Bakers first time actually playing in Buffalo

 

Game the Bills should win.  Yesterday was disappointing but if they lose Thursday night yeah I’d start to panic a little 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I’ll be in Disney on my Honeymoon ✌️ 

 

That’s right y’all, YOUR BOY GOT HITCHED! 

[MAJBobby]

My BIGGEST issue with Dorsey's Offense.....

 

WHERE is the offense that was practiced in Camp?

 

Where are those Slants, Arrow Routes, 20 yard Digs and Posts, why is EVERYTHING outside the numbers.

 

You cannot be a Big 12 guy as a Shell beater when you still refuse to attach the shell deep middle.

 

 

This looks like a Chan Gailey Compressed Offense because Fitzy didnt have the arm talent to push deep.  That is what this offense looks like with better QB talent.

Edited October 23, 2023 by MAJBobby

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I dont lack anything.  

 

SO the Defense is giving them only 5 to 10 yard routes, You know who else did the same things, Raiders, Commanders, Dolphins.  You  know the difference the offense wasnt scared and still had those 15-30 yard routes and THREW them.  I get it I guess we are still in the day and age of the fan that the Defense runs the NFL. 

 

It only runs the GAME if you allow it to run the game.  This team allows the other teams to Dictate, not the other way around.  Good Teams DICTATE themselves not play the opponents game

 

Case in point. Shell two high Diggs ran RIGHT by them 

Late Shell and they threw right into it Diggs almost makes the diving catch.  When you play scared the coach speak is well we took what the defense gave us. 

 

This goes back to them not respecting Allen when he escapes the pocket anymore as a runner.  They basically know he isn't going to take off now so they don't worry about trying to run up to stop him from picking up big yards.  They run back and cover the receivers instead, making those easy throws downfield that were so open last year much tighter windows that now often are incomplete.  

 

The way they fix it?  Get Allen on a few runs outside the pocket early in games and force those defenders to respect him running in those situations, even if he wants to throw it...they are closing the windows themselves on their passing lanes by not using his legs.