In real life Josh Allen had an NFL average game yesterday.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

25 points and a lead with two minutes to go is what mattered yesterday. 
 

Apparently not, because we lost.

 

If the offense shows up and plays in the first half (something they haven't done in 3 weeks and counting), we could have put this team away. We could have gotten the Pats completely out of their script of bully ball, forced them to throw, and had the game over by the second quarter.  You know, like how the Chiefs go up 2 scores early on bad teams and then coast?

 

But of course, we didn't.  We put up 3 points. We let them run and play ball control, instead of forcing Mac to need to make throws to get points.

 

I'm of the opinion that when you pay a QB and WR $70M, the offense should be able to flat out win you games. They haven't won us a game this season besides the Dolphins one and they've lost us a couple now. The game is 60 minutes and this offense seems to only play for 5.

Edited October 23, 2023 by FireChans

[Andrew Son]

Maybe he should get an average salary then.  Imagine all the weapons he could have!

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2

Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th.  - Tampa is 3-3. 

 

Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90.  If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good.  If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. 

Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team.  This loss is an indictment of the whole team.  Josh is not paid to be average.  But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good.  If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender.  Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry.  Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry.  Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. 

It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28.  The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. 

No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault".

 

I agree. The team lost not because of Josh, simply because of the way it was constructed.

 

Can there still be any doubt of this?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Imagine if we had any other QB other than Josh (or Mahomes) yesterday. We would have given up like 10 sacks.

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Bills were giving Jones far too many easy completions with nobody around the receiver, and they threw a lot of short stuff as well.

The defensive game plan sucked yesterday. 
 

We brought extra rushers and played soft, well off the receiver. The rush couldn’t come close to getting home and Max was quick/efficient with the ball. I wish we would have either pressed the WR off the line, or stopped sending extra guys.

 

On the opposite side of the ball, the play calls looked “fine” to me yesterday but we couldn’t get out of our own way with drops, penalties, and poor decisions. A million execution errors. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

5 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Imagine if we had any other QB other than Josh (or Mahomes) yesterday. We would have given up like 10 sacks.

 

I don't know how people can watch our O-line get caved in play after play and think Allen only had an average game. 

 

Joe Burrow behind this O-line would've been sacked a dozen times on his way to 50 yards passing and no points scored for the entire game. 

 

The offense had 1 turnover (I'm not counting the final play fumble) and 1 punt against a very good defense. I'd call that a pretty good outing

[Chaos]

4 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I don't know how people can watch our O-line get caved in play after play and think Allen only had an average game. 

 

Joe Burrow behind this O-line would've been sacked a dozen times on his way to 50 yards passing and no points scored for the entire game. 

 

The offense had 1 turnover (I'm not counting the final play fumble) and 1 punt against a very good defense. I'd call that a pretty good outing

Fair point. My point in the original post was that he was was arguably statistically avg.  QBR is intended to compensate for the types of issues you raised. By that measure Allen was well above average. 

[Mango]

19 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I agree. The team lost not because of Josh, simply because of the way it was constructed.

 

Can there still be any doubt of this?

Whatever ownership does with this staff going forward, I think they need to pull some control from Josh. We keep signing his friends to be back up QB’s, he picked his own OC, we have his boy Knox on a bloated contract. It’s just too many things not working out at the moment.
 

Miller, Tre, Morse, Dawkins and Knox contracts are hampering us next year. Some of that isn’t their fault due to injury. But it doesn’t change the reality of cost v production. Our secondary is aging quickly. We need at least two starting OL plus a WR or too. It’s a lot to address without much space.

 

The Bills either had to win in the last season or two, or be a little more cautious with spending/extensions and better with getting value from their draft picks if they were going to keep the train full speed ahead. They’ll have to take a step back for a year or two for a brief reset. The true test for Beane is managing the last year or two along with the next year or two. 

[DuckyBoys]

defense sucks  We have played 5 bad qbs this season or the numbers would more accurately reflect what this defense is.  Its more of the same crap  Cant hold a lead  The offense has been figured out No new wrinkles no creativity  Still cant run a screen   Still cant run the football with any sort of consistency  QB has to play very well every game to even have a chance to win  Bad drafting and bad coaching imo

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2

Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th.  - Tampa is 3-3. 

 

Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90.  If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good.  If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. 

Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team.  This loss is an indictment of the whole team.  Josh is not paid to be average.  But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good.  If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender.  Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry.  Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry.  Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. 

It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28.  The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. 

No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault".

 

 

Yeah the Bills offense played well enough to win the game but the first play INT throw to Knox and the 4th down drop by Knox were two turnovers that really hurt.    

 

Good article in The Athletic today..........Bills actually improved their season EPA offensively in the Pats game but the defense and special teams were just really bad.

 

[dave mcbride]

57 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the Bills offense played well enough to win the game but the first play INT throw to Knox and the 4th down drop by Knox were two turnovers that really hurt.    

 

Good article in The Athletic today..........Bills actually improved their season EPA offensively in the Pats game but the defense and special teams were just really bad.

 

Yep. I don’t have a good feeling about this defense going forward. McDermott needs to do some serious self-scouting to get this defense to average-level through superior scheming because the talent is bad right now: no interior d-linemen who are any good, JAGs at the boundary corner position who don’t make game-changing plays, and a total question mark at outside LB. The DE rushers are still above average relative to the rest of the league, but it really concerns me that 3 games in Von Miller is playing 6 snaps in total and none on NE’s pass-heavy game winning drive. You shouldn’t be rostering him if that’s all you’re getting from him. The safeties are above average too. Overall, I think they’re currently well below average at DT (and I fear Oliver’s toe issue will be a nagging one), below average at boundary CB, above average at DE, and moderately above average at safety. That spells “mediocre NFL defense,” right in the mix with all the average-level teams whose defenses occasionally get steamrolled. 
 

McDermott is blitzing a ton to cover up for the bad interior pressure situation, but the result over the last two weeks has been to make Tyrod and Jones look like pro bowlers. The Patriots had SEVEN scoring drives - the same number as the Bills had in the Bills-NE playoff game from January 2022.

Edited October 23, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2

Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th.  - Tampa is 3-3. 

 

Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90.  If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good.  If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. 

Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team.  This loss is an indictment of the whole team.  Josh is not paid to be average.  But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good.  If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender.  Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry.  Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry.  Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. 

It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28.  The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. 

No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault".

I'm sure the All-22 will say the Bills weapons are "fine" and Allen missed open reads all day. 

 

Look at the play-by-play, the Bills largely moved the ball in dinks and dunks. 

 

But the feeling I have is third game in a row where the offense/defense starts slow, and in the second half it's taking 10-15 play drives to get the ball into the endzone.

 

2nd Game in a row that your #2 WR is invisible. 

[Big Turk]

They have taken the fun out of the game for Allen...he wants to play loose and let it all hang out and he is being coached to be way more conservative.  Let the man play...at least a little bit. You have to give him some of that every game, not only for him, but for the offense to be as effective as it can be.

[Fleezoid]

Yay! I knew I didn't see what I just saw.....

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

They have taken the fun out of the game for Allen...he wants to play loose and let it all hang out and he is being coached to be way more conservative.  Let the man play...at least a little bit. You have to give him some of that every game, not only for him, but for the offense to be as effective as it can be.

If it's not Diggs, where are the personnel answers? 

 

Throwing to Kincaid for 8 yards is loose and hanging out? 

 

I mean right now, I'm searching around, looks like more of the same lack of speed on this offense, so run the ball a little less, throw to Cook and Harty more? 

 

We'll be told all week about how Gabe Davis is untouchable and can't be taken off the field, so Harty will have to maximize his 19 snaps. 

[dave mcbride]

35 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I'm sure the All-22 will say the Bills weapons are "fine" and Allen missed open reads all day. 

 

Look at the play-by-play, the Bills largely moved the ball in dinks and dunks. 

 

But the feeling I have is third game in a row where the offense/defense starts slow, and in the second half it's taking 10-15 play drives to get the ball into the endzone.

 

2nd Game in a row that your #2 WR is invisible. 

I have gotten the weird sense that Allen started looking away from Davis after the fumble. Maybe he's been directed to; McDermott is supermely intolerant of non-quarterback fumbles.

[GunnerBill]

The loss is not "Josh Allen's fault." 

 

I put his performance fourth on my list of reasons last night:

 

1. Lost the trench battle on both sides of the ball;

2. The slow start (again, 3 in a row);

3. The defensive performance was pathetic;

4. Josh Allen did not play well;

 

And @Gugny - I missed your response to these in the shoutbox last night but I am absolutely NOT excusing coaching. Coaching is implicated most strongly in both #2 and #3. When a team comes out flat as a one off that is normally on the players. When it comes out flat 3 weeks in a row despite the Bills supposedly "putting emphasis" on starting fast this week that becomes a coaching issue. Their scripts, their preparation, their mindset. On #3 see elsewhere on this board where I have been hyper-critical of McDermott's gameplan on defense. Relentlessly blitzing a Quarterback who is throwing the ball within 2 seconds is idiotic. It just means you have one fewer player to cover the short and intermediate zones he is throwing into. Way too reliant on the blitz. At no point did they really step back and make a concerted effort to flood the zones Jones was living in. Confuse him. Make him hold the ball. I hope all the "Frazier sucks cos he doesn't blitz enough" folks are happy. Blitzing is for dummies and Madden players. 

 

I do excuse Dorsey actually yesterday having been pretty critical of him last week. I thought he called a good game yesterday. The offensive issues were primarily execution issues not gameplan / playcalling ones IMO. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The loss is not "Josh Allen's fault." 

 

I put his performance fourth on my list of reasons last night:

 

1. Lost the trench battle on both sides of the ball;

2. The slow start (again, 3 in a row);

3. The defensive performance was pathetic;

4. Josh Allen did not play well;

 

And @Gugny - I missed your response to these in the shoutbox last night but I am absolutely NOT excusing coaching. Coaching is implicated most strongly in both #2 and #3. When a team comes out flat as a one off that is normally on the players. When it comes out flat 3 weeks in a row despite the Bills supposedly "putting emphasis" on starting fast this week that becomes a coaching issue. Their scripts, their preparation, their mindset. On #3 see elsewhere on this board where I have been hyper-critical of McDermott's gameplan on defense. Relentlessly blitzing a Quarterback who is throwing the ball within 2 seconds is idiotic. It just means you have one fewer player to cover the short and intermediate zones he is throwing into. Way too reliant on the blitz. At no point did they really step back and make a concerted effort to flood the zones Jones was living in. Confuse him. Make him hold the ball. I hope all the "Frazier sucks cos he doesn't blitz enough" folks are happy. Blitzing is for dummies and Madden players. 

 

I do excuse Dorsey actually yesterday having been pretty critical of him last week. I thought he called a good game yesterday. The offensive issues were primarily execution issues not gameplan / playcalling ones IMO. 

The problem I have is that when you play a bad team and you are a good team with a great QB, your offense can quite literally "win" the game by starting fast.

 

Daboll understood this. If the Bills went out, scored twice, the Pats would've crumbled and the game would've ended. If you give bad teams life, they will scratch and claw. It's still professional football.

 

The slow starts are killing us and turning easy wins into dog fights.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, FireChans said:

The problem I have is that when you play a bad team and you are a good team with a great QB, your offense can quite literally "win" the game by starting fast.

 

Daboll understood this. If the Bills went out, scored twice, the Pats would've crumbled and the game would've ended. If you give bad teams life, they will scratch and claw. It's still professional football.

 

The slow starts are killing us and turning easy wins into dog fights.

 

I agree and the stats of first drive scoring with Dorsey are concerning. But yesterday I don't think he did a lot wrong. Drive 1 - Josh threw a bad pick on the first play. Drive 2 - Murray plays the rub badly and gets called for OPI. Drive 3 - Josh fails to check out of a run play to a side where the Pats have an overload and then we get a DOG penalty. 4th drive we fail to pick up a blitz that ends the drive then Bass misses the kick.....

 

It was a comedy of execution errors. 

[Dukestreetking]

Passing slash lines: data that may only interest me.

 

GroupA: Kinkaid, Cook, Shakir, Murray, Harty, Sherfield

 

GroupB: Diggs, Davis, Knox

 

Rec-Tgt-Yds-Comp%-TD-Ypc-Ypa-PasserRating

 

A: 19-19-191-100-1-10.1-10.1-126.1

 

B: 8-20-74-40-1-9.3-3.7-46.7

Edited October 23, 2023 by Dukestreetking
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