Identity on offence

[Niagara Dude]

It seems like once the Bills fall behind in games their answer is these long time consuming drives that sometimes ends up without points.  The Bills have lost their identity and everything seems like a struggle. Very few if any big shot plays and not sure this by design pushed by McDermott to keep his defence off the field.  One of their best drives yesterday was late when they played with urgency and impose their will. Very difficult to have 8 first down touchdown drives which seems like what the Bills having been trying to do. The key to the Bills success in previous years was score fast and just keep scoring. 

[MasterStrategist]

I posted this in another thread "12 personnel", Dorsey has forced us into a bad/mismatched identity on offense this year.

 

Trying to be a short/efficient passing offense and more run game.  Less explosive plays.  

 

That type of offense is great when you have a better OL/run game and a 2nd WR that can win 1-1 in short zones.  

 

Problem is, we don't have the the OL or WR2 to execute that scheme.  So we've become a team that eats up 8 min drives (scores a FG) OR goes 3 and out.

 

We need to be more aggressive on offense from the start.  We'd get frustrated that Daboll would come out throwing 10 straight passes, but maybe that's exactly what we need some games.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I posted this in another thread "12 personnel", Dorsey has forced us into a bad/mismatched identity on offense this year.

 

Trying to be a short/efficient passing offense and more run game.  Less explosive plays.  

 

That type of offense is great when you have a better OL/run game and a 2nd WR that can win 1-1 in short zones.  

 

Problem is, we don't have the the OL or WR2 to execute that scheme.  So we've become a team that eats up 8 min drives (scores a FG) OR goes 3 and out.

 

We need to be more aggressive on offense from the start.  We'd get frustrated that Daboll would come out throwing 10 straight passes, but maybe that's exactly what we need some games.

 

It helps when the first throw of the game is to your own team not the opposing one.  

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I posted this in another thread "12 personnel", Dorsey has forced us into a bad/mismatched identity on offense this year.

 

Trying to be a short/efficient passing offense and more run game.  Less explosive plays.  

 

That type of offense is great when you have a better OL/run game and a 2nd WR that can win 1-1 in short zones.  

 

Problem is, we don't have the the OL or WR2 to execute that scheme.  So we've become a team that eats up 8 min drives (scores a FG) OR goes 3 and out.

 

We need to be more aggressive on offense from the start.  We'd get frustrated that Daboll would come out throwing 10 straight passes, but maybe that's exactly what we need some games.

That’s McDermott, not Dorsey. Remember last year? We all complained about deep shots on 3rd and 3. Dorsey’s MO is to take deep shots most of the time. He’s a lunatic. McDermott wants to win with defense and a ball-control offense. After week one’s debacle he had all the ammunition he needed to win that argument. Now Josh doesn’t run and he took one deep shot all game.  That’s all McD.

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

It helps when the first throw of the game is to your own team not the opposing one.  

Agree, Josh isnt perfect either.  

 

Plenty of blame to go around.  But the offense hasn't looked this bad, to me it's mostly coaching. Nobody respecting our "12 personnel" for us to consistently run the ball, and the combo of Knox/Kincaid/Davis isn't enough speed to win 1-1 against the nickle defenses we face.

 

Poor personnel decisions in the offseason are squarely on Beane.  He neglected WR2, brought in 2 "meh" Wrs, and drafted a future stud at TE (meanwhile overpaying our current starter).

 

Unless we make a trade (unlikely), we need to adjust our "identity" (scheme/personnel groupings/tempo/etc).

 

Coach likely pushing some of this more conservative offense on Dorsey.  But at some point, they need to realize it's time to move on/adjust what we're doing.

4 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That’s McDermott, not Dorsey. Remember last year? We all complained about deep shots on 3rd and 3. Dorsey’s MO is to take deep shots most of the time. He’s a lunatic. McDermott wants to win with defense and a ball-control offense. After week one’s debacle he had all the ammunition he needed to win that argument. Now Josh doesn’t run and he took one deep shot all game.  That’s all McD.

I agree McD definitely heavily involved in that decision process.

 

Without anyone knowing exactly, I think it's fair to say the entire coaching staff is underperforming with our current talent.  Especially on offense.  

[Big Turk]

The identity on offense was to let Allen do whatever he felt was best on a play and also use him in the designed run game.  They have literally cut their nose off to spite their face on offense by neutering him in the way they have.  Yes he is taking "less hits", but the offense is also much easier to defend now than when Allen was consistently a running threat and teams had to spend significant time preparing for those designed runs.  Do teams even bother anymore?  I don't know if we have seen one yet other than maybe a draw here or there and a few QB sneaks on short yardage.  

 

Where is the QB Power?  The QB Sweep?  Get the D at least preparing for that again even if you aren't going to use it every game. 

 

Allen seems so hesitant to run now, it's like he would rather try and throw up a pass with a 5% chance of being completed than take off running.  That was a HUGE part of his game and teams are no longer really forced to defend that much anymore.

 

They want to "fix" the offense? Then bring back the Allen runs.  I'm sorry, this is who your QB is.  THAT'S your identity on offense.  You have an unstoppable force back there that can make you wrong no matter what you try and do on defense.

 

Mahomes is running more than he ever has and it seems to be working.  Allen is running less than he ever has and it isn't...at least not in the first half.  

[benderbender]

Identity means nothing and the proof is asking yourself what is the Chief's identity? They run, pass, and do trick plays when needed so they don't have to stick to a script. 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, benderbender said:

Identity means nothing and the proof is asking yourself what is the Chief's identity? They run, pass, and do trick plays when needed so they don't have to stick to a script. 

 

Mahomes is also running more than ever and using his legs to pick up big chunks.  Allen needs to get back to doing the same and the offense needs to encourage him to do so.  They have gone too far in the other direction of trying to "play it safe" with him.  There needs to be somewhere in the middle and this assuredly isn't it.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

The identity on offense was to let Allen do whatever he felt was best on a play and also use him in the designed run game.  They have literally cut their nose off to spite their face on offense by neutering him in the way they have.  Yes he is taking "less hits", but the offense is also much easier to defend now than when Allen was consistently a running threat and teams had to spend significant time preparing for those designed runs.  Do teams even bother anymore?  I don't know if we have seen one yet other than maybe a draw here or there and a few QB sneaks on short yardage.  

 

Where is the QB Power?  The QB Sweep?  Get the D at least preparing for that again even if you aren't going to use it every game. 

 

Allen seems so hesitant to run now, it's like he would rather try and throw up a pass with a 5% chance of being completed than take off running.  That was a HUGE part of his game and teams are no longer really forced to defend that much anymore.

 

They want to "fix" the offense? Then bring back the Allen runs.  I'm sorry, this is who your QB is.  THAT'S your identity on offense.  You have an unstoppable force back there that can make you wrong no matter what you try and do on defense.

 

Mahomes is running more than he ever has and it seems to be working.  Allen is running less than he ever has and it isn't...at least not in the first half.  

 

Mahomes scrambles - he doesn't have designed powers and sweeps.  

 

Seeing Anthony Richardson get 3 different injuries in like 6 weeks and have his season end makes me a bit apprehensive to add tons of QB runs to the playbook.  He's getting shoulder surgery in his rookie season.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Mahomes is also running more than ever and using his legs to pick up big chunks.  Allen needs to get back to doing the same and the offense needs to encourage him to do so.  They have gone too far in the other direction of trying to "play it safe" with him.  There needs to be somewhere in the middle and this assuredly isn't it.

 

New england is smart - they may not have a ton of pass rush talent, but they were pushing the middle and the outside contain players don't get caught up field.  Without their best pass rusher they decided it was best to just get him 10-20 yards back from LOS and let him run around.   Force allen to go backwards to get out of the pocket and then there isn't room to run, and there isn't space to step up.  

[26TrapDraw]

Us on first downs

 

[zow2]

Orlovsky spoke about this on ESPN this morning.  There's a serious lack of a plan when teams pressure heavily or blitz.  He says it's a 5 year issue for Buffalo and they react to it poorly.  it's on everyone, coached included.  But all agreed that Allen is not the problem, he still brings them back in miraculous fashion by just being Josh Allen.   

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

I posted this in another thread "12 personnel", Dorsey has forced us into a bad/mismatched identity on offense this year.

 

Trying to be a short/efficient passing offense and more run game.  Less explosive plays.  

 

That type of offense is great when you have a better OL/run game and a 2nd WR that can win 1-1 in short zones.  

 

Problem is, we don't have the the OL or WR2 to execute that scheme.  So we've become a team that eats up 8 min drives (scores a FG) OR goes 3 and out.

 

We need to be more aggressive on offense from the start.  We'd get frustrated that Daboll would come out throwing 10 straight passes, but maybe that's exactly what we need some games.

I think McDermott has his hands on this offence,  he keeps talking about complimentary football. It's like he prefers these long time consuming drives to keep his defence off the field. Our success has come in just playing with pace and being explosive,  to the point that we get so far ahead the other team becomes one dimensional. 

[Niagara Dude]

7 hours ago, zow2 said:

Orlovsky spoke about this on ESPN this morning.  There's a serious lack of a plan when teams pressure heavily or blitz.  He says it's a 5 year issue for Buffalo and they react to it poorly.  it's on everyone, coached included.  But all agreed that Allen is not the problem, he still brings them back in miraculous fashion by just being Josh Allen.   

Problem is with Beane not surrounding Allen with better weapons

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, zow2 said:

Orlovsky spoke about this on ESPN this morning.  There's a serious lack of a plan when teams pressure heavily or blitz.  He says it's a 5 year issue for Buffalo and they react to it poorly.  it's on everyone, coached included.  But all agreed that Allen is not the problem, he still brings them back in miraculous fashion by just being Josh Allen.   

 

That's not true...in 2020 they had some of the best blitz pickups I'd ever seen from an OLine and backs...literally looked like Allen had a wall around him and nobody was even getting close to him.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[billsfan_34]

8 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

It helps when the first throw of the game is to your own team not the opposing one.  

Yeah that wasn’t good. I think his shoulder is worse than anyone thinks.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Yeah that wasn’t good. I think his shoulder is worse than anyone thinks.

 

Underthrown sail route.  He seems to be struggling with placement on down field throws at times.  You want that ball almost out of bounds and his throw... was not almost out of bounds.  

[billsfan_34]

33 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Underthrown sail route.  He seems to be struggling with placement on down field throws at times.  You want that ball almost out of bounds and his throw... was not almost out of bounds.  

Exactly! He had a handful of balls that were not where they needed to be yet others were there. Im confused lol 😂 

[Aussie Joe]

8 hours ago, zow2 said:

Orlovsky spoke about this on ESPN this morning.  There's a serious lack of a plan when teams pressure heavily or blitz.  He says it's a 5 year issue for Buffalo and they react to it poorly.  it's on everyone, coached included.  But all agreed that Allen is not the problem, he still brings them back in miraculous fashion by just being Josh Allen.   

In Josh’s break out 2020 season he dispatched this narrative that he was poor when being blitzed …