Seems coaching took away 1 of Allen's biggest assets - Him running the football

[Herc11]

2 minutes ago, gjv said:

Whether you realize it or not, you have made my point. 

 

Comprehension sure is a challenge for you, huh? 

[TheBrownBear]

I think the majority of it is defenses are playing Allen much more effectively with that spy and it's causing him a lot of indecision with the run/pass options on scramble drills, and actually leading to some of his inaccuracy since he isn't committed with his decision-making.  

[msw2112]

Other than the occasional short yardage sneak or RPO when the defensive end crashes down inside, I'm fine with the Bills taking the designed Allen runs out of the offense.  They are unnecessary and subject him to injury.  That said, when the pocket breaks down and he can scramble for the first down or more, he absolutely should be running.  If there's green grass ahead of him, he should take it.  Even where he might have a chance to dump it off, he should run it if there's a big open lane.  I've seen many times this season where such a lane has been there and he has not taken it.  The thing he needs to do differently than in the past is to slide and or go out of bounds.  As exciting as it may be, he should be taking tacklers head-on, bulling them over, or hurdling over them.

 

Mahomes' running is highly effective for the Chiefs' offense, but he's scrambling when the defense gives it to him and he's getting to the sidelines or sliding.  He's not taking on linebackers.  Allen can and should do the same.

Edited October 23, 2023 by msw2112

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm telling you , it's killing us, especially in or around the RZ but really the whole field. So many times in the past he bailed out the O with a massive run, moving the chains or getting a TD and this staff seemingly took that aspect away from his game. It's disappointing to say the least

 

They have attempted to turn Allen into Herbert...a guy who extends plays outside the pocket but only will run if he absolutely has to.  It's killing their offense. defenders don't bother trying to stop Allen from running anymore, they go back and take away his receivers, leaving him with plenty of room to run and instead he continues to throw passes into tight windows downfield when he could have those windows open back up if he would take advantage of the open spaces, especially early in games, to give defenders something to think about and put them in a bind.

 

The numbers don't lie.  Herbert ran only 54 times last year. Allen ran 124 times.  This year they are basically equal(Allen 29, Herbert 28).  It's unacceptable and it needs to change if they want their offense to go back to being explosive.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

22 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They have attempted to turn Allen into Herbert...a guy who extends plays outside the pocket but only will run if he absolutely has to.  It's killing their offense. defenders don't bother trying to stop Allen from running anymore, they go back and take away his receivers, leaving him with plenty of room to run and instead he continues to throw passes into tight windows downfield when he could have those windows open back up if he would take advantage of the open spaces, especially early in games, to give defenders something to think about and put them in a bind.

 

The numbers don't lie.  Herbert ran only 54 times last year. Allen ran 124 times.  This year they are basically equal(Allen 29, Herbert 28).  It's unacceptable and it needs to change if they want their offense to go back to being explosive.

 

Both NYG and patriots seemed to not commit to rushing their defensive line up field - and created havoc up the middle with stout DTs and blitzing.  There wasn't space to step up towards the LOS in a pocket, or side-step into rushing lanes.  They were content to give him the sideline, and most of his sideline running throws have been down field.  

 

He's been super late on check downs recently as well, meaning he's looking to make that big play and its costing us YAC.  

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Both NYG and patriots seemed to not commit to rushing their defensive line up field - and created havoc up the middle with stout DTs and blitzing.  There wasn't space to step up towards the LOS in a pocket, or side-step into rushing lanes.  They were content to give him the sideline, and most of his sideline running throws have been down field.  

 

He's been super late on check downs recently as well, meaning he's looking to make that big play and its costing us YAC.  

 

Roll the pocket and that blunts the effects of all those inside rushes...where has that been at all?

[gmcintos99]

3 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

I think we were all on board with him running less.  It is not panning out the way we hoped. 

nah. Never really heard anyone say he should run less. What an insane thing to say.

[nedboy7]

23 minutes ago, gmcintos99 said:

nah. Never really heard anyone say he should run less. What an insane thing to say.

 

You were not concerned with him diving into LBs every other play?  I doubt he could have continued on that path.  Then we would be talking about how this coaching staff broke our QB.  Again I agree that its been over corrected at this point. 

[gmcintos99]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You were not concerned with him diving into LBs every other play?  I doubt he could have continued on that path.  Then we would be talking about how this coaching staff broke our QB.  Again I agree that its been over corrected at this point. 

No. This is football. We're after a superbowl - not a Dan marino style career. You have to have apex josh to win it all. 

[Koufax]

What version of a change is best is debatable, but you are exact right here.

 

At some point there was a concerted effort to make him Bledsoe 2.0 at worst, and at best creative outside the pocket but not beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

I think this does two things that hurt the Bills:

 

1) Prevents him from gaining big yards in key moments, instead of forcing something or taking a sack (feel free to slide or step out of bounds like Mahomes, hurdles and hits not necessary).

 

2) Recently has defenses sitting back in coverage a little more without the threat of a run. No surprise that Belichick and Daboll know him really well and adjusted for this change, taking away the success when he does throw it after escaping the pocket.

 

I don't like designed runs that put him in harms way and we have moved away from, but the get outside the pocket, and tuck it and run if you don't have something is a huge part of his amazingness.

 

And now on the flip side, you hear a lot of "avoid hits, avoiding risks" as a reason not to run. I completely disagree with the logic here. While I hope he never has a major injury, I'm much more concerned about the types of things that knocked Brady out for a year than him making contact with a defensive back on his own terms.

 

Not quite as simple as this, but I wish we would:

1) Start the games passing only...do not establish the rush. Try to complete as many 5-15 yard passes as possible (he has been hugely successful at these).

2) When those aren't available and something obvious isn't available deeper, get out of the pocket quickly looking for someone to open up and if not to run for whatever is available.

3) Later in the game as we have established the pass and completions, we know what the defense is doing, we get a lighter box, then start to run the ball with Cook.

 

Josh's accuracy and completion percentage have been awesome. Diggs is incredible in the 10-15 get open catch the laser. Kinkaid is has been awesome at getting open intermediate and catching the ball. Our other receivers are pretty solid too.

 

Or Dorsey can keep doing what he is doing and see if he keeps his job...

[mjt328]

Josh Allen is a good pocket passer.  But he just doesn't read defenses good/quick enough to be great.  

The thing that has always made him special is his mobility, and the threat of him breaking off big runs.

 

It's pretty clear the coaching staff is purposely taking away this aspect of his game, in hopes they can extend his career with less hits.

The smarter play would be to keep letting him run... but drill it into his head to slide and/or get to the sidelines.  Not completely neuter him.

 

Without the threat of Allen running, this offense is extremely one-dimensional.  It took a few games of film, but defenses have figured this out.

Stefon Diggs is the only legitimate threat on the offense.  All the other receivers and running backs are complimentary pieces, and nothing to be concerned about.

Focus on stopping Diggs, and the Bills have nobody else that can stress a defense.  Nor do they have a coordinator capable of scheming people open regularly.

 

Opponents are also starting to figure out the Bills weaknesses on the other side of the ball, and learning where to attack our injury-depleted defense.  Letting up nearly 30 to a pathetic offense like the Patriots is unfortunately only the beginning.  Things are really going to get ugly once we start playing real offenses again in a couple weeks.  Without Milano, White and Jones, we just can't count on the defense to bail us out.  They are now a liability too, and will be so for the rest of the 2023 season. 

 

If the Bills are going to have a prayer at making a postseason run, this offense now needs to consistently put up 35-40 points weekly.  I'm not convinced the coaching staff is smart enough to figure out the problem until it's too late.  

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by mjt328

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I would start off with vying for a seat on his hometown Dana Point city council.  Name recognition might actually justify a try for higher office.

[oldmanfan]

I have no problem with him running more if he slides and avoids big hits.  But he also needs to improve his reads.