12 Personnel

[MasterStrategist]

I think 1 major adjustment to the offense is to stop using 12 personnel so much.

 

We need to get back to our 11, and give Kincaid majority (60/40 snaps) over Knox.  

 

Second adjustment is going back, not all the time but alot more often, to our 7 step/deep crossing route development plays.

 

We've become a "small ball" offense, almost overcompensating for what we saw LY at times (too aggressive/too many long developing plays).  Yes, there will be times and we still need to mix in the quick passing.  Right now, we need to get bigger plays and let Josh be who he is.

 

But we've turned into an offense that needs to sustain 10+ play drives.  Often times getting behind the sticks, or 3rd & long situations, because we're throwing too many very short passes/bad playcalling rhythm/poor execution. 

 

These 2 adjustments alone won't do it.  We need better execution/playcalling/decision making by Josh.  But, it's the start of getting back to ehat this offense can and should be.  

 

Do you agree/other thoughts on what can be adjusted with scheme?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I just don’t know how they would’ve pulled off a 7 step drop in this one…there’s just too much quick pressure.
 

that quick underneath throw stuff is being run out of necessity 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I just don’t know how they would’ve pulled off a 7 step drop in this one…there’s just too much quick pressure.
 

that quick underneath throw stuff is being run out of necessity 

A seven step drop mean ms you throw once you reach the drop, not bounce in the pocket 2 more seconds then run to the right. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I think 1 major adjustment to the offense is to stop using 12 personnel so much.

 

We need to get back to our 11, and give Kincaid majority (60/40 snaps) over Knox.  

 

Second adjustment is going back, not all the time but alot more often, to our 7 step/deep crossing route development plays.

 

We've become a "small ball" offense, almost overcompensating for what we saw LY at times (too aggressive/too many long developing plays).  Yes, there will be times and we still need to mix in the quick passing.  Right now, we need to get bigger plays and let Josh be who he is.

 

But we've turned into an offense that needs to sustain 10+ play drives.  Often times getting behind the sticks, or 3rd & long situations, because we're throwing too many very short passes/bad playcalling rhythm/poor execution. 

 

These 2 adjustments alone won't do it.  We need better execution/playcalling/decision making by Josh.  But, it's the start of getting back to ehat this offense can and should be.  

 

Do you agree/other thoughts on what can be adjusted with scheme?

Teams are playing cover 2 and then beating our tackles with wide rushes.  I don’t think seven step drops are going to work.

[Process]

Kincaid TE 1. Knox demoted to role player/primarily blocking TE, then cut in the off-season. 

 

A LOT more Harty. 

[thenorthremembers]

Its hardly 12 personnel.    Most of the time Kincaid is lining up off the line anyways.   The issue isn't the formation.  Arguably you have your 4 best pass receivers on the field anyways.   What would help is if Dawson Knox remembered how to catch a football.

Edited October 23, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[vincec]

Honestly, there are so many things wrong that formation seems like the least of it. I would probably start with: 

- lack of big plays

- pre snap penalties

- OL getting steamrolled

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Teams are playing cover 2 and then beating our tackles with wide rushes.  I don’t think seven step drops are going to work.

I think Josh is getting rid of it too quick against Cover 2 at times.  Going for 2-3 yards.  There's time to find a better balance in the intermediate areas, even a 7 step drop release point is doable against the wide rush/goal is to hit more intermediate passing zones.

[Baba Booey]

Kincade should be TE #1. Dude was

making plays and the all

of a

sudden stop going to him. Year is over. On to the draft. Hopefully with a new coach and GM

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its hardly 12 personnel.    Most of the time Kincaid is lining up off the line anyways.   The issue isn't the formation.  Arguably you have your 4 best pass receivers on the field anyways.   What would help is if Dawson Knox remembered how to catch a football.

Agree, I'm saying we need to get Harty/Shakir/Sherfield on the field with Kincaid more often.  Less Kincaid/Knox combo.

[boyst]

Kincaid is out there because Sherfield is ST player who can be the 4th or 5th WR, Harty isn't what we paid for and can't beat Shakir who hasn't been given many chances at WR3.

 

Kincaid is better as our 3rd or 4th down field target than anyone else. Cook maybe as good but that's arguable..

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Instead of playing 12 personnel, why not put the TE that can’t catch on the bench where he belongs? Get another WR on the field or even idk the FB that we carry 🤷‍♂️Instead of forcing Knox in like he’s a starter, how about we realize 5 years after the fact that he just isnt good.

[vincec]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Instead of playing 12 personnel, why not put the TE that can’t catch on the bench where he belongs? Get another WR on the field or even idk the FB that we carry 🤷‍♂️Instead of forcing Knox in like he’s a starter, how about we realize 5 years after the fact that he just isnt good.

Then how are they going to keep 7 guys in to block?

[boyst]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

I think Josh is getting rid of it too quick against Cover 2 at times.  Going for 2-3 yards.  There's time to find a better balance in the intermediate areas, even a 7 step drop release point is doable against the wide rush/goal is to hit more intermediate passing zones.

100% agree

 

Josh took a few plays to find comfort and make a good read to place the ball well. He's getting too much pressure and not being given much. It happened on the play to Morris for the TD. Josh just placed it perfectly. 

 

He is not getting and maybe not giving himself enough time. Especially when we have Davis who needs to run the route deep and Diggs when on the outside needs his route to be crisp to lose a defender in 3 second. 

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree, I'm saying we need to get Harty/Shakir/Sherfield on the field with Kincaid more often.  Less Kincaid/Knox combo.

I dont disagree.   Just wish those werent the options we had to choose from.    Beane dropped the ball big time when it comes to receiving options.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, vincec said:

Then how are they going to keep 7 guys in to block?

Use a Tackle as the TE if you are worried about it. We already do that constantly. Plus Sherfield can absolutely block if he’s out there on a run play and the FB can too.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's not the personnel grouping it is how it is being used. That said Allen missed a wide open Kincaid down the sideline that was probably set up by all the short out patterns he runs.

The team is broken in so many ways. A simple formation change won't matter.

We just haven't endure until McD is gone in 2025. 

[vincec]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Use a Tackle as the TE if you are worried about it. We already do that constantly. Plus Sherfield can absolutely block if he’s out there on a run play and the FB can too.

Ok. Let’s give it a try.

[Mikie2times]

Team play our two TE's with Nickel or Dime. They have no respect for it being a bulked up package. They treat it as a 3 WR set and rightfully so. 

[vincec]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

Team play our two TE's with Nickel or Dime. They have no respect for it being a bulked up package. They treat it as a 3 WR set and rightfully so. 

This is a core problem. The Bills do run it more and have been better at it than last season, but not so much that teams come out of their pass defenses.