Can someone explain defensive holding to me?

[pennstate10]

Here’s what I saw on a “great” non call. The Pat DB has his hands on Diggs the entire way down the field, including a jersey tug or two. That’s not holding. 
 

Taron Johnson contacts a receiver minimally for a millisecond. That’s defensive holding. 
 

This rule needs some clarity and consistency. Its called completely at random. 
 

And why did they pick up the flag on lineman downfield. 60 was 5 yds downfield before the throw. 

[T.E.]

I've always suspected that it's an infraction that only exists so that the league can manipulate games towards outcomes they see as favorable, whether that be keeping games interesting or even benefiting one team over another. It's only a five-yard penalty, so it never grabs too much attention, but it consistently pops up to bail teams out on what were failed 3rd/4th downs.

[ToGoGo]

1 minute ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

I've always suspected that it's an infraction that only exists so that the league can manipulate games towards outcomes they see as favorable, whether that be keeping games interesting or even benefiting one team over another. It's only a five-yard penalty, so it never grabs too much attention, but it consistently pops up to bail teams out on what were failed 3rd/4th downs.

How about that Murray penalty that wiped out the Knox td? 
 

It’s not about yards or number of penalties, it’s about the timing. 

[Dr.Sack]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

I've always suspected that it's an infraction that only exists so that the league can manipulate games towards outcomes they see as favorable, whether that be keeping games interesting or even benefiting one team over another. It's only a five-yard penalty, so it never grabs too much attention, but it consistently pops up to bail teams out on what were failed 3rd/4th downs.

This. And it helps the narrative of the unbeatable Mahomes, who gets 2.0 of these calls per game since I began tracking these. Unfortunately the Bills average below this amount. These are the plays that Chris Collingsworth types are great bloviating about.  

[T.E.]

14 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

How about that Murray penalty that wiped out the Knox td? 
 

It’s not about yards or number of penalties, it’s about the timing. 

Exactly. Pretty borderline (I think you could even argue the NE defender initiated the contact), but those points were the difference in the game.

 

Also the PI on Benford at the end. I saw nothing, and it stopped the clock and gave NE a 1st down, essentially assuring the win. Or the defensive holding on the Floyd sack on 3rd down that gave NE a 1st down at the 20 when we had them out of FG range.

 

All of those calls are totally subjective, but can be seismic in the right spots.

[ToGoGo]

15 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Exactly. Pretty borderline (I think you could even argue the NE defender initiated the contact), but those points were the difference in the game.

 

Also the PI on Benford at the end. I saw nothing, and it stopped the clock and gave NE a 1st down, essentially assuring the win. Or the defensive holding on the Floyd sack on 3rd down that gave NE a 1st down at the 20 when we had them out of FG range.

 

All of those calls are totally subjective, but can be seismic in the right spots.

And you’ll often see the makeup call later on in the drive turning a 2nd and 5 into a 2nd and 10. But the damage has already been done and they are already in field goal range. 
 

I also noticed the phantom pass interference that stopped the clock. Would’ve been a spike with a few ticks left. 
 

It’s game manipulation that always makes me weary of the Bills never winning a championship. I guess I just don’t get it. Why not rig it FOR a special talent like Allen? Why send him to London to get hung out to dry with jet lag? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

37 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

How about that Murray penalty that wiped out the Knox td? 
 

It’s not about yards or number of penalties, it’s about the timing. 

What about it? It was the worst rub play in NFL history. Murray has to do a better job

20 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Exactly. Pretty borderline (I think you could even argue the NE defender initiated the contact), but those points were the difference in the game.

 

Also the PI on Benford at the end. I saw nothing, and it stopped the clock and gave NE a 1st down, essentially assuring the win. Or the defensive holding on the Floyd sack on 3rd down that gave NE a 1st down at the 20 when we had them out of FG range.

 

All of those calls are totally subjective, but can be seismic in the right spots.

Agree on the PI it was a no call situation 

That said everyone knows we got away with a penalty last week. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

What about it? It was the worst rub play in NFL history. Murray has to do a better job

Why is an RB out there running that rub route anyway? 🤯

[DapperCam]

21 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Exactly. Pretty borderline (I think you could even argue the NE defender initiated the contact), but those points were the difference in the game.

 

Also the PI on Benford at the end. I saw nothing, and it stopped the clock and gave NE a 1st down, essentially assuring the win. Or the defensive holding on the Floyd sack on 3rd down that gave NE a 1st down at the 20 when we had them out of FG range.

 

All of those calls are totally subjective, but can be seismic in the right spots.

Not to mention Mac Jones threw the ball out of the endzone. The ball is supposed to be catchable for it to be PI. Refs just don’t seem to include that part of it anymore.