Bills @ Patriots Post game thread

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You said he wasn't "patient" I showed you evidence that in the last two games he was plenty patient.

 

As far as comparing Allen directly to Mahomes over the last 5 plus seasons how can I when Mahomes has enjoyed significantly better offensive coaching; significantly better weapons and a significantly better O line?  Apples and oranges.

 

 

 

 

He’s not consistently patient.   You seem to be one of the few people who thinks that a controversial statement. 
 

In a stretch where our offense desperately needs to just stack first downs, he constantly neglects the quick check down/release to the flat because he wants something further down field and/or goes to the short pass a second late due to holding for a down the field play, which negates any YAC ability. 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by SCBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

He’s not consistent patient.   You seem to be one of the few people who thinks that a controversial statement. 
 

In a stretch where our offense desperately needs to just stack first downs, he constantly neglects the quick check down because he wants something further down field and/or goes to the short pass a second late due to holding for a down the field play, which negates any YAC ability. 

Then DON’T freaking draft a rocket armed QB.

 

Take away his running and give him journeyman WRs behind Diggs. 
 

Allen isn’t a perfect QB, but he completed 65% of his passes today and the average is 6.5 ypc. 
 

He is taking short stuff, came into this game 9th in check-downs and 30th in first read throws. 
 

🤷🏻‍♂️

[Billsfanatic8989]

Had a bad feeling about this game. Everyone in the press was talking about how Belichick would be fired. Patriots are looking to tank etc. Bills will blow them out. 

 

Maybe the Bills thought they could just show up & NE would quit within no time at all. 

[90sBills]

28 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You don't have to be wearing "Bills glasses" to see that the way the bills structured their team after Allen was drafted would not have worked any better with Mahomes.  In fact the bad O line and lack of multiple elite play makers on the Bills from 2018 - 2022 might have meant that Mahomes would have struggled on the Bills.  It was Allen's physical gifts that allowed him to survive and often thrive with an inferior O line. 

 

And for the record I'm not saying Mahomes would not have thrived on the Bills and been considered elite.  He would have been successful in the same way Allen has just minus the Super Bowl wins like Allen.

 

To say Allen doesn't have the same drive as Mahomes is a crappy cheap shot.  Allen has had to overcome a lot more to reach an elite status then Mahomes has had to. 

 

 

When the Chiefs struggle against inferior opponents they usually find a way to win in the end because Mahomes finds a way to do what’s necessary to secure a win. He has that ‘it’ factor. Brady had that. Now it’s Mahomes. You see glimpses from Allen but not consistent enough to pull tough games out. That trait alone is why I think Mahomes would’ve thrive anywhere, including here.

 

As far as being driven it comes directly from Allen so I don’t see how you think it’s a cheap shot. He doesn’t watch as much film because he doesn’t think it’ll help. This was from him this past offseason. He doesn’t work as hard in the offseason compared to both Burrow and Mahomes. Mahomes holds an offseason receivers camp. Burrow has his qb camp. These are both his competition. He stated that he’s ‘more focused than ever to football’. That’s speaks of immaturity. He’s the face of an NFL franchise not the starting qb at your local hs. All these snippets adds up to someone that’s not unilaterally driven to be the best a his craft. It’s not a slight. Not everyone can be driven. 
 

Yes I absolutely agree that he has worked hard in the early years to improve his game to elite status. It seems complacency has taken roots lately.

 

I’ve always maintained that he’s the second best qb in the league and that’s good enough to get a championship. Bills struggles is not all his fault. It’s not even the majority his fault. But he is on the team and its leader no less so part of the blame will be on his shoulders. There’s still enough season left for the team to right the ship. I’m still holding out hope for a strong finish but this loss has taken a big dent for sure.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Then DON’T freaking draft a rocket armed QB.

 

Take away his running and give him journeyman WRs behind Diggs. 
 

Allen isn’t a perfect QB, but he completed 65% of his passes today and the average is 6.5 ypc. 
 

He is taking short stuff, came into this game 9th in check-downs and 30th in first read throws. 
 

🤷🏻‍♂️

Someone tweeted “Dorsey turned Allen into Herbert”. 
 

This was a quintessential Herbert type game from him.  
 

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t think Allen is playing situational football to anywhere near the caliber Mahomes does .. again .. consistently.   And that’s a huge difference in the two.   It’s a big reason why KC wins these games (typically) and we manage to lose a bunch of them.  

KC’s offense this year is not more talented than ours.  They’re 6-1 and aren’t an unmitigated disaster for half of the year thus far. 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Someone tweeted “Dorsey turned Allen into Herbert”. 
 

This was a quintessential Herbert type game from him.  
 

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t think Allen is playing situational football to anywhere near the caliber Mahomes does .. again .. consistently.   And that’s a huge difference in the two.   It’s a big reason why KC wins these games (typically) and we manage to lose a bunch of them.  

KC’s offense this year is not more talented than ours.  They’re 6-1 and aren’t an unmitigated disaster for half of the year thus far. 

 

KC's skill players may not be more talented but their offensive coaching and Offensive line are significantly better then the Bills.

 

 

[90sBills]

49 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t think Mahomes has rings if he were in Buffalo. I do think if Reid had Allen in KC he’d still have won a couple Super Bowls with him , though. You need the coaching too. 

I do. So we have different opinions. Who knew.

 

Yes you do need coaching. You also need qb’s. As NE proved with Belicheck and Brady…the qb is more important than the coach. Great QBs overcome mediocre coaching. Great QBs and great coaching? Well that’s where dynasties exist. 

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He is taking short stuff, came into this game 9th in check-downs and 30th in first read throws.

Seriously? That seems like a massive indictment of Dorsey right there, how is the first read never open?

Edited October 23, 2023 by Warcodered

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, 90sBills said:

I do. So we have different opinions. Who knew.

 

Yes you do need coaching. You also need qb’s. As NE proved with Belicheck and Brady…the qb is more important than the coach. Great QBs overcome mediocre coaching. Great QBs and great coaching? Well that’s where dynasties exist. 

Then by your definition Allen is a great QB because over his career he has overcome mediocre coaching and offensive talent to lead the Bills to 4 straight playoff berths, 3 straight division titles and one AFC Championship game.  And he did this for a franchise that went 18 years with ONE playoff berth (miracle backing into the playoffs) and no division titles or playoff wins.  18 years.  How did the Chiefs do in the 5 years before Mahomes arrived?

 

 

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

When the Chiefs struggle against inferior opponents they usually find a way to win in the end because Mahomes finds a way to do what’s necessary to secure a win. He has that ‘it’ factor.

 

Allen should have stolen McDermott's headset and called the final 2 minute series. Good post.

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. So we have different opinions. Who knew.

 

Yes you do need coaching. You also need qb’s. As NE proved with Belicheck and Brady…the qb is more important than the coach. Great QBs overcome mediocre coaching. Great QBs and great coaching? Well that’s where dynasties exist. 

The QB is more important than the coach to be sure. Perhaps mediocre coaching can be overcome to a point. Below average coaching ? I don’t think so. That’s where careers are wasted. Dorsey appears below average as a play designer / caller. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Why is it that I know better that the Bills are NOT a running team and the 12 personnel is ineffective, but the idiot coaches don't? TAKE THE ***** TRAINING WHEELS OFF YOU IDIOTS!!!

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Allen should have stolen McDermott's headset and called the final 2 minute series. Good post.

Allen: Screw it I'll play Nose Tackle too.

[SCBills]

I have to say ….

 

Everyone I watch games with calls some of our offensive plays before the snap.  To an absurd level.  
 

Allen bootleg in the red zone that was blown up.  We all knew that’s what we were going to do.   So did the Pats. 

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Then by your definition Allen is a great QB because over his career he has overcome mediocre coaching and offensive talent to lead the Bills to 4 straight playoff berths, 3 straight division titles and one AFC Championship game.  And he did this for a franchise that went 18 years with ONE playoff berth (miracle backing into the playoffs) and no division titles or playoff wins.  18 years.  How did the Chiefs do in the 5 years before Mahomes arrived?

 

 

Of course Allen is a great qb! I’ve never said otherwise. Wth are we even talking about here. Lol. I’ve repeatedly said he’s the 2nd best in the league. If that’s not saying he’s great I don’t know what would.

 

How did the Chiefs do before Mahomes arrived? Stacked meaningless regular season wins then flamed out in the playoffs never threatening to win a superbowl. Does this scenario sound similar to OBD currently?

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The QB is more important than the coach to be sure. Perhaps mediocre coaching can be overcome to a point. Below average coaching ? I don’t think so. That’s where careers are wasted. Dorsey appears below average as a play designer / caller. 

Yes I’m afraid you may be right about Dorsey. That just means another wasted year of Allen’s prime. Heaven forbids another year of Dorsey next season.

[LifeLongBillsFan]

8 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Mac Jones looked like Brady on that final drive. There was no pressure on him, and the Pats O line is one of the worst in the NFL.. 

 

the Giant Oline was a complete make shift line of scrubs - we never got any pressure on them either. 
We lack pressure and the scheme sucks!

Maybe why Frazer left - the scheme sucks

[Cheektowaga Chad]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

He’s not consistently patient.   You seem to be one of the few people who thinks that a controversial statement. 
 

In a stretch where our offense desperately needs to just stack first downs, he constantly neglects the quick check down/release to the flat because he wants something further down field and/or goes to the short pass a second late due to holding for a down the field play, which negates any YAC ability. 

 

I cannot stand this, especially happens when the bills get inside the 30 or red zone, they start aiming for the endzone

 

Wish someone would remind the offense there are still first downs to get and you don't need to score a 20 yard TD pass. A 5 yard TD pass is still worth 6 points 

 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

I cannot stand this, especially happens when the bills get inside the 30 or red zone, they start aiming for the endzone

 

Wish someone would remind the offense there are still first downs to get and you don't need to score a 20 yard TD pass. A 5 yard TD pass is still worth 6 points 

 

Agreed with both of you. Been screaming for Josh to take underneath stuff for years but also he needs to start running again.  He'd take off instantly in the past if a lane was there and vs NE he had multiple opportunities for easy yards rushing and holds the ball usually resulting in a negative play. 

 

It's very discouraging to watch 

[Nihilarian]

What's crazy to me is the Bills have one of the very best pass-rushing units in the league and the Patriots have one of the very worst O lines...what happened?

 

Suddenly the offense can't move the ball against bad defenses? Buffalo should not have lost this game. 

 

Strange stuff...

 

 

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, BILLieve85 said:

Case In point. Go back and watch the first play on offense. Knox wide open in the flat for at least 7/8 yards. Nope. Throw into coverage and pick. JA17 has to take the easy play more. 

The int was thrown to Knox.