Bills @ Patriots Post game thread

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. I think if Mahomes ended up here Bills would have won at least 1 superbowl. I also believe if Allen went to KC they would also win 1 but not be as dominant as they have been the last 5 years.

 

Reid > McD.

Mahomes > Allen.
 

Take your Bills glasses off and you can see that Mahomes is a better player. He’s not as physically gifted as Allen but his intangibles are greater than Allen’s. He has that drive to be the best that I don’t see Allen possess. A player like Mahomes will succeed no matter where he ended up. It’s just bad for the league that he ended up with the most innovative offensive mind that unlocked all his potential. 

Mahomes will be patient, even though you can tell he hates it.  
 

Allen refuses to do this for any extended period of time.  
 

This is the main difference between them right now. 

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What, you want great play both half's all the time?  Do you watch NFL football?  Allen was meh in the first half and exceptional in the 2nd half.  The Bills got a 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game and the D let the Pats go 75 yards for the winning TD. And that was that.

 

I honestly can’t tell if you’re being serious right now….
 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Thought he threw that 4th down Knox drop a couple of beats too late at least. Knox should have still caught it but we were screaming at the TV before Allen saw him. He certainly could have made it easier.

 

Yes, this is another "Josh cant run anymore but he still kinda wants to so he has a moment of hesitation and THEN throws and it disrupts the timing of the entire thing so the guy drops the ball and we dont get the conversion and Josh should have just tucked it and picked up the 2 yards we needed" situation.

 

It happens every game now.

 

Coaching has managed to RUIN Josh, not make him better.

 

If people are worried about longevity, I'd rather have classic, running Josh for 5 more years than this Josh for 10.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 penalties for 46 yards.

 

So if that was 5 for 25 would that be good enough execution? 
 

Allen was 27/41 - 65% today, so the answer is he needs to be at 70% - 75% ? 
 

I agree with the offensive line getting mauled in the first half. So that’s execution.

 

I guess we have to keep rolling Gabe Davis out there 95% of the time. 
 

Does it pass to the logic test that Diggs gets the ball over and over, but Davis manages 1 catch and it’s Josh/Dorsey’s fault? They just call bad routes for him, but not Diggs?
 

Congratulations Bills you have finally broken Allen down to where he never runs anymore. He tried once and got tripped for 2 yards. 
 

When they were desperate they did call Allen’s number (not a sneak) in the red zone once. 
 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. I think if Mahomes ended up here Bills would have won at least 1 superbowl. I also believe if Allen went to KC they would also win 1 but not be as dominant as they have been the last 5 years.

 

Reid > McD.

Mahomes > Allen.
 

Take your Bills glasses off and you can see that Mahomes is a better player. He’s not as physically gifted as Allen but his intangibles are greater than Allen’s. He has that drive to be the best that I don’t see Allen possess. A player like Mahomes will succeed no matter where he ended up. It’s just bad for the league that he ended up with the most innovative offensive mind that unlocked all his potential. 

You don't have to be wearing "Bills glasses" to see that the way the bills structured their team after Allen was drafted would not have worked any better with Mahomes.  In fact the bad O line and lack of multiple elite play makers on the Bills from 2018 - 2022 might have meant that Mahomes would have struggled on the Bills.  It was Allen's physical gifts that allowed him to survive and often thrive with an inferior O line. 

 

And for the record I'm not saying Mahomes would not have thrived on the Bills and been considered elite.  He would have been successful in the same way Allen has just minus the Super Bowl wins like Allen.

 

To say Allen doesn't have the same drive as Mahomes is a crappy cheap shot.  Allen has had to overcome a lot more to reach an elite status then Mahomes has had to. 

 

 

[Realist]

Coaching staff has coached the run right out of Allen. I have barely seen any RPO’s and he never scrambles anymore. When forced out of the pocket, he runs backwards at an angle and throws up a prayer. Opponents no longer have to fear Allen running.

 

And for the love of God, can the defense please stop a freaking screen pass! Also wouldn’t mind if the offense could run a successful screen.

[Boatdrinks]

14 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. I think if Mahomes ended up here Bills would have won at least 1 superbowl. I also believe if Allen went to KC they would also win 1 but not be as dominant as they have been the last 5 years.

 

Reid > McD.

Mahomes > Allen.
 

Take your Bills glasses off and you can see that Mahomes is a better player. He’s not as physically gifted as Allen but his intangibles are greater than Allen’s. He has that drive to be the best that I don’t see Allen possess. A player like Mahomes will succeed no matter where he ended up. It’s just bad for the league that he ended up with the most innovative offensive mind that unlocked all his potential. 

I don’t think Mahomes has rings if he were in Buffalo. I do think if Reid had Allen in KC he’d still have won a couple Super Bowls with him , though. You need the coaching too. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

The offense wasn’t inept the first half. Just mistakes at key moments.

Most times they moved the ball (steadily). They had a steady diet of 6, 7, 4, 8 yard gains. 

 

But it is laborious. There is an occasional Cook 22 yard run, or 18-yard bullet to Diggs. 

[BILLieve85]

19 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

The offense wasn’t inept the first half. Just mistakes at key moments.

Inept or not the offense wasn’t ready. I don’t know which is worse

[LifeLongBillsFan]

26 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. I think if Mahomes ended up here Bills would have won at least 1 superbowl. I also believe if Allen went to KC they would also win 1 but not be as dominant as they have been the last 5 years.

 

Reid > McD.

Mahomes > Allen.
 

Take your Bills glasses off and you can see that Mahomes is a better player. He’s not as physically gifted as Allen but his intangibles are greater than Allen’s. He has that drive to be the best that I don’t see Allen possess. A player like Mahomes will succeed no matter where he ended up. It’s just bad for the league that he ended up with the most innovative offensive mind that unlocked all his potential. 

I agree - trading away Mahomes was the dumbest - rigged NFL - move in a century 

and then to use two first round picks to get Allen sealed the deal

dumb as stones 

[BILLieve85]

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Mahomes will be patient, even though you can tell he hates it.  
 

Allen refuses to do this for any extended period of time.  
 

This is the main difference between them right now. 

I honestly can’t tell if you’re being serious right now….
 

Case In point. Go back and watch the first play on offense. Knox wide open in the flat for at least 7/8 yards. Nope. Throw into coverage and pick. JA17 has to take the easy play more. 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Mahomes will be patient, even though you can tell he hates it.  
 

Allen refuses to do this for any extended period of time.  
 

This is the main difference between them right now. 

I honestly can’t tell if you’re being serious right now….
 

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient?  Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make.

 

Against the Giants the TD drives were:  89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays.

 

Against the Pats:  FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays,

 

Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience.  Maybe he was being to patient?

 

 

1 minute ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

I agree - trading away Mahomes was the dumbest - rigged NFL - move in a century 

and then to use two first round picks to get Allen sealed the deal

dumb as stones 

Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

 

 

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient?  Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make.

 

Against the Giants the TD drives were:  89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays.

 

Against the Pats:  FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays,

 

Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience.  Maybe he was being to patient?

 

 

Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

 

 

I critique Allen on the same level as Mahomes. 
 

You seem to be critiquing him on the same level as Derek Carr. 
 

I don’t expect Carr to lead a top offense.   I don’t expect Carr to be consistently great.   I don’t expect Carr to make high level plays.  
 

Because right now… Allen isn’t blameless as to why this offense has been a high variance mess these past 3 weeks.   
 

He’s on the cover of Madden.  Makes a ton of money.  
 

He should be held to a higher standard.  Not a “well he played a good half.. what more do you want?”

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by SCBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

25 minutes ago, klos63 said:

10 play drives are good. They tire the defense and rest ours. It was good earlier in the season when are defense was healthy, they dominated.

 

The biggest problem with the team is mistakes.  Jets game, 3 terrible interceptions and punt return TD,  Jax game, probably a mistake in logistics cost them there, and today, poor interception, drop on 4th down, missed FG, costly penalties and so many missed tackles, especially on the final drive. Yeah, maybe the coaching needs to be better, but eliminate the stupid mistakes and we are 6-1, maybe 7-0.

Okay, but our players (listened to Morris and Knox and Allen) say the exact same thing: watching the tape and correcting mistakes. 
 

Of course film study is mandatory, but mistakes going to corrected once and for all after this weeks film sessions? 
 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I critique Allen on the same level as Mahomes. 
 

You seem to be critiquing him on the same level as Derek Carr. 

You said he wasn't "patient" I showed you evidence that in the last two games he was plenty patient.

 

As far as comparing Allen directly to Mahomes over the last 5 plus seasons how can I when Mahomes has enjoyed significantly better offensive coaching; significantly better weapons and a significantly better O line?  Apples and oranges.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[LifeLongBillsFan]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient?  Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make.

 

Against the Giants the TD drives were:  89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays.

 

Against the Pats:  FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays,

 

Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience.  Maybe he was being to patient?

 

 

Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

 

 

Yea not my point - not stupid to pick Allen once we were there - having Mahomes and trading that away because the twi first round picks would make us better - only to trade away both picks to pick a QB anyway 

Edited October 23, 2023 by LifeLongBillsFan

[Goin Breakdown]

36 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I do. I think if Mahomes ended up here Bills would have won at least 1 superbowl. I also believe if Allen went to KC they would also win 1 but not be as dominant as they have been the last 5 years.

 

Reid > McD.

Mahomes > Allen.
 

Take your Bills glasses off and you can see that Mahomes is a better player. He’s not as physically gifted as Allen but his intangibles are greater than Allen’s. He has that drive to be the best that I don’t see Allen possess. A player like Mahomes will succeed no matter where he ended up. It’s just bad for the league that he ended up with the most innovative offensive mind that unlocked all his potential. 

I can agree with this based on the idea that Allen seems to get in his feels more. We all talk about sugar high josh. I think there is a sad josh. Once things go bad, he gets down. He didn't used to but the last couple of years he has lost that ice in his veins. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient?  Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make.

 

Against the Giants the TD drives were:  89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays.

 

Against the Pats:  FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays,

 

Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience.  Maybe he was being to patient?

 

 

Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

 

 

17/17 on throws less than 2.5 seconds.

 

10/24 on throws that took longer than 2.5 seconds. 
 

I think this team has largely been fine this year working smaller, steady gains, throwing short.

 

Thanks for these play counts, I ball-parked 10-15 play drives, and we’re disappointed that a penalty or a couple penalties occur on drives that long?

 

One thing the Bills could do better is get the play call in faster, how many times does the play clock run to 0 before the Bills get the snap off?

 

Foxboro noise accounts for all of that?

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, LifeLongBillsFan said:

Yea not Emmy point - not stupid to pick Allen once we were there - having Mahomes and trading that away because the twi first round picks would make us better - only to trade away both picks to pick a QB anyway 

I think they only didn’t pick a QB because they knew Whaley was a goner and most incoming GMs want to pick their own QB. By all accounts McD ran that draft. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

17/17 on throws less than 2.5 seconds.

 

10/24 on throws that took longer than 2.5 seconds. 
 

I think this team has largely been fine this year working smaller, steady gains, throwing short.

 

Thanks for these play counts, I ball-parked 10-15 play drives, and we’re disappointed that a penalty or a couple penalties occur on drives that long?

 

One thing the Bills could do better is get the play call in faster, how many times does the play clock run to 0 before the Bills get the snap off?

 

Foxboro noise accounts for all of that?

 

Greg Roman offense past with team's does that lots clock almost to zero. I think it makes it easier for defense to read

[WideNine]

52 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Thought he threw that 4th down Knox drop a couple of beats too late at least. Knox should have still caught it but we were screaming at the TV before Allen saw him. He certainly could have made it easier.

 

Thought the same thing, but was more angry at stone hands.