Bills @ Patriots Post game thread

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Allen shaky 

 

Cook strong

 

OL looking overrun

 

Knox a liability

 

Diggs elite

 

Davis irrelevant

 

Kincaid Promising

 

DL obsolete

 

Coach horrific

 

I am depressed. The state of the team, given the outlook on this AND future seasons, is very different than how I imagined this whole thing going just even a year or two ago. 
 

Rough. 

 

[Success]

I'd love to be one of those guys who can say "I'm out" and really not be a fan anymore.  I'm sick of this.

 

Can't do it, though. It would be like trying to walk away from my name, or one of my appendages.  I'm a lifer, for better or WORSE.

 

[VaMilBill]

12 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Ah yes, our fully intact elite offense with 10 points with seven minutes left in the game, just like the last two crap performances and 4 of 7…. But let’s blame the mash unit

Happened in the Washington game too. Went into the 4th with 16 points only. Jets game too

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

But I think you have to put it in proper perspective. The Bills offense has struggled for three straight games. That's just not going to win you a lot of games especially with a depleted defense. 

Two of those games involved the London hangover. But yes, unless we see an immediate improvement, the offensive problems may not be fixable with the current coaching & talent on the Bills.  The ONLY solution may be to go all in on hero ball Allen.  Sure that will mean there will be a couple of clunkers but there will be a lot more highly productive offensive games like we saw the last 2 years.

 

Allen & Diggs are the only excellent players on Offense.  After them you have average to below average talent at every position.  Maybe Kincaid will rise above that as he's shown glimpses of the productive player he could be.  And if we're lucky Cook will join him.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[stuvian]

Maybe we can put aside the Superbowl talk until we earn our way into the conversation 

[Tierlifer]

The only good news is there have the calendar on their side as it’s still not too late to right the ship. Problem is there’s no signs point to that happening and the schedule is about to get brutal. 
 

 

Was todays excuse jet lag on that 1:10 flight to Logan?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, damj said:

Yes. Every QB has one of those games ...

 

But it's been 3 games in a rowhnow with Josh l. Not good

Like Herbert.  The defensive mindset and talent surrounding Allen is not fixable when Allen is being reined in and the offense structured to please Bean & MCD. Sorry but we are in deep trouble if Allen can't make this offense work.  And IMO it's not on Allen. 

 

 

[RunTheBall]

I don’t think you can just flick a switch and Allen will be the gunslinger of old. They’ve neutered him. This could be a career defining year for him. He looks disinterested. He’s getting snippy with the media where he was always Joe Cool. I’m seeing that deer in the headlights look too much. Josh isn’t in the top 5 of Bills problems but because this team is so reliant on him, it really has an effect on the entire team. Dorsey should be fired for this development alone.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Completely agree, and it's a bummer. It feels like each week they just try and see what will stick.

 

I think it's time to just let Josh go back to his old ways and playing style. Is it reckless? Sure, a little I guess, but a lot more effective than what we are seeing these days. 

Seems like a more long possession based offense which relies pretty strongly on minimizing mistakes which we have not at all been able to do lol 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

Ok, but the D has 4 key starters out; 5, if you count Miller. It would be nice if they could rely on the offense to help them a little. Especially since it’s supposed to be one of the best in the league led by an “elite” QB. Instead they come out flat as a pancake and force the team to play from behind all day. Do you think Jones would look a little different if he was playing from behind?

If you don't think Allen is "elite" you don't know football.  So please lose the damn quotation marks.  

 

I think it's obvious that as a whole the Bill's offense is not elite.  The times they do look "elite" is when Allen & Diggs are playing great and firing on all cylinders.  But it's a mirage created by the FACT that Allen & Diggs are truly elite and can raise the level of the offenses play.

 

Sure the D has been hit hard by injuries but NE had the worst QB & offense in the NFL and yet went up and down the field.  

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I don’t think you can just flick a switch and Allen will be the gunslinger of old. They’ve neutered him. This could be a career defining year for him. He looks disinterested. He’s getting snippy with the media where he was always Joe Cool. I’m seeing that deer in the headlights look too much. Josh isn’t in the top 5 of Bills problems but because this team is so reliant on him, it really has an effect on the entire team. Dorsey should be fired for this development alone.

 

This. Honestly I’m worried we’ve ruined him. Let josh be josh. Designed runs PLEASE! Scrambles PLEASE! Rollouts PLEASE! We have one of the best weapons in the league and only McDermott and Dorsey would be dumb enough to not let him do everything he’s good at. It’s absolutely malpractice. We wasted his window on a bum like McDermott. 

[WideNine]

11 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

The thing is, every single time he has gotten banged up, it has been in the pocket or behind the LOS.  He has never gotten hurt while running.  He may be banged up now, but should be back to normal in a couple weeks.  This offense will not get better until you either let him start being himself again or you completely overhaul it and make it an under center offense that uses play action a lot.  You have to get the defense to respect the run, especially Allen's ability to take off at any time.  Right now, they have no reason to do so and that is why the same offense that used to be one of the most dynamic in the league is now easy to defend.  

 

When folks talk about Allen running they are usually referring to him scrambling and not designed runs which is one key difference that often gets lost 

 

Secondly, defenses are doing a  better job sealing the edges and keeping Allen from escaping the pocket...especially to his right where he prefers to roll out to throw or run.

 

More defenses are keeping a fast spy on Allen and they are on him as soon as he does roll out.

 

If you watch, many of Allen's scrambles now happen between the Tackles when and if that opens up if LBs and S's vacate the middle.

 

Defenses have adapted and there is less open field for Allen to exploit. It is not like it is always an available option for him and coaches are saying "no".

 

Sometimes he is able to do this more later in games, but defenses are often sitting back in those situations trying to prevent the big play so giving up more space for him to run.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

27 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I’m now kind hoping we don’t…I think it would a waste on this season, and hinder us from building for next year…

I kind of agree.  Let the season play out with McD/Dorsey.  No big signings either. If they right the ship and we go on and win the division and win at least one playoff game then we keep the status quo and try to tweak our way to a Super Bowl.  But if we don't make the playoffs then a day after the season ends coaching and GM heads roll and we turn the direction of the franchise 180 degrees.

 

[bouds]

Harty touched the ball once and made something happen with two missed tackles. This offense doesn’t do enough of that, hit guys in stride and just let them make plays with ball. It’s a slow plodding offense at this point with little explosive plays and zero rac.  Just frustrating. 

[Bob Jones]

48 minutes ago, vincec said:

It would have been a very close, tricky tack call that had absolutely nothing to do with the play. Is that what we’re crying about now? How about making a tackle?

I totally agree with you. I was just giving an explanation for somebody who asked about it.

 

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

 

 

Massive mistake by Pegula giving both McDermott and Beanne extensions.

Well, this is completely irrelevant. If they want to move on it doesn't matter what their contracts are. And no matter who your guys are, they need to have your full support until it's time to move on.

[BILLieve85]

9 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

Well, this is completely irrelevant. If they want to move on it doesn't matter what their contracts are. And no matter who your guys are, they need to have your full support until it's time to move on.

Actually it’s not. He’s given Sabres executives and coaches extensions and then fired them within a year or two 

[Bob in STL]

Like a lot of losses in Gillette, we lost it in the trenches. 
 

Josh was not at his best and part of it was the poor pass protection from the OL.  The bigger problem of course is that the offense is Allen and Diggs.  There are no playmakers emerging, maybe Cook and Kincaid, but Knox and Davis should not start next week.  Message time. 

 

The worse part of today was the defense.  They played a team that averages 12 points a game and they got rolled over when it counted most.  Lots of injuries but still should have played better. 

[jahnyc]

Some thoughts below:

 

1.  Not sure I understand the repeated up the middle running plays by the Bills using Cook (not just this week, but last week as well).  Is he the right type of back for this?  Are the current players that we have on our o-line the type of players that will wear down a defense?  Is Cook that type of player?  There was no creativity in our play calling on offense in general, and specifically our rush offense.  No rushes outside, no WR sweeps and no screens to take the pressure off of JA.

 

2. The D. Jones injury has had a negative impact on the defense, but this happened at the end of last season as well.  Overall, our rush defense is poor. I believe McD and Beane knew that an adequate back-up was needed, but P. Ford is not the answer, and the defense will struggle because of the failure to address this need in a meaningful way.

 

3. Why is Kincaid only running short routes?  If he is being used as the second or third option for passing plays, why is his usage being limited in this way?

 

4. I am a supporter of McD. but it is disconcerting that the Bills have been unprepared and out coached for three games in a row.  We should be 3-4 at this point of the season after completing the easier part of our schedule. 

 

5.  I am pessimistic about seeing improvement any time soon.  We hit the same rough patch last year with our offense and whatever the problems are, they have not been remediated.  Our defense played poorly today, and this was against a team that had been struggling to score points and move the ball.  The effects of losing White, Milano and Jones seem to be too much for our defense to overcome.

 

 

 

 

[Franco_92]

4 minutes ago, BILLieve85 said:

Actually it’s not. He’s given Sabres executives and coaches extensions and then fired them within a year or two 

This literally proves what I said