How Good is Josh Allen Really?

[Ya Digg?]

44 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

What excuse will you guys come up with next when Kelce retires and Mahomes still wins a Super Bowl with a rookie TE? 

So admittedly I’m just seeing this thread and have no interest in reading through your other probably not great posts to find out so I’ll just ask-where do you rank Josh among all of the QBs in the league? Clearly you don’t have him ranked very high, is he even in your top 10? I’m not even trying to be condescending, I’m genuinely interested

[Man with No Name]

i think allen is really, really great, but his coaches are not. what he isn't though is peyton manning. Peyton Manning, and probably Tom Brady  as well, took ownership of his entire offense, and the players on it. He spent time with the receivers, making sure they could run routes. He made some really mediocre guys look awesome. if you want to be on the level of those guys, you have to be responsible for everything that happens. making the right calls, helping guys prepare, etc. 

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

 

Mahomes has a huge advantage over Allen just based on the fact that he has Andy Reid designing and calling plays.  

 

Unfortunately,  I'm starting to think that Allen is comparable to John Elway under Dan Reeves.  It took them a decade to bring in a coaching staff that would allow Elway to reach his full potential.  I think that may be the case here as well.  

[Nelius]

Man it was so awesome when Mahomes willed the Chiefs to victory with nothing but the corpse of Sammy Watkins and a bunch of no-names…

 

oh wait no he had the greatest TE and greatest offensive minded coach in history, nevermind. Araiza is a lazy troll.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

We all know fans who believe McD should be fired if we don't get to the Super Bowl when we have Josh Allen as our QB.

 

But Josh has given us some clunkers.  There are games when he bails out of the pocket when he doesn't need to, makes bad decisions with the ball, and delivers errant throws.

 

But are Josh's subpar games truly his fault?

Sometimes I put the blame squarely on Dorsey for poor play design and bad play-calling.

 

And when I blame Dorsey, McD deserves his share of blame too.  He made Dorsey the OC and oversees the entire team.  He doesn't escape culpability.

 

But sometimes I blame the receivers who, at times, struggle to gain separation.  (Though maybe that's more of a Dorsey problem).  

And some games I blame the OL.  Josh has spent much of his career in Buffalo scrambling for his life.

 

Of course, Beane deserves some blame, too.  He's never prioritized the OL.  You would think that when you've found a generational QB, you'd build a line to protect his health and well-being as well as give him time to throw.  Beane didn't do that.  

 

There are days when Josh looks like one of the best to ever play the game.  Other times, not so much.  So, I've been wondering how good Josh really is and who's principally to blame when he's not as productive and efficient as he 'ought' to be.  

He is physically one of the best to ever play the position.  But he still has things to learn and improve on.  When subpar some of it is Dorsey (and before him Daboll-we all seem to have short memories about how we’d rant about him as we do with Dorsey).  But Josh has moments and games when he just does not play smart, and makes mistakes a 6 year guy simply shouldn’t.  The Jets game was a perfect example.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

 

you're fun

[GunnerBill]

Josh is elite. But QB performance is the single biggest contributor to results. That is true whether you win or lose. 

 

He was unbelievable in the 2021 playoffs and the coaching and defense blew it. But the other playoff losses Josh has been a significant part of those. 

 

There is plenty of blame to go around. It starts with McDermott, it includes Beane's roster building, it includes Quarterback play. Sometimes people talk like we have had 2021 Josh Allen every year in the post season and it has been everyone else that has blown it every time. That is not the truth.

 

If Josh gets hot at the right time in any single year the Bills can beat anyone. And if there is another year where he is all world and it doesn't get it done then heads should and will roll.

Edited October 20, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Best Player Available]

Josh has been must see since he entered the NFL WTF?

[Draconator]

2 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

Josh Allen is the most handsome, butch, masculine QB I've ever pictured naked

Hailey doesn't need to picture it. 

[stevestojan]

Best QB we’ve ever had. And yes, that includes Kelly. And Kelly had more tools. 
 

That’s not a knock to Jimbo; that’s a credit to Josh. 
 

 

[Da webster guy]

Not only is he elite, he and Lamar are the most fun QB's in the world to watch. 

 

I think Josh is averaging 30 a game for three years rolling now.  I can't imagine us having anyone else, and I'd take him over any QB in the league in a second.

[Brand J]

There’s only one other QB I’d rather have. That other guy is almost never the reason his team loses a game, he’s like MJ on the gridiron, but Josh proved he can go toe to toe with him when he’s “on.”

If our offense, which isn’t decimated like our defense, fails to move the ball, I want it to consistently be that everyone around Allen has failed him: the receivers are dropping passes, the line can’t block, no one can get open, etc. I don’t want Josh to share half of the blame because he’s missing reads, underthrowing/overthrowing passes, or not trusting what he’s seeing. To win a SB he’ll need to elevate the offense, to get production out of guys who ordinarily wouldn’t or shouldn’t be producing. If he can raise the floor of his worst level of play we’d be considered a dominant team. Right now we’re an inconsistent one, or “immature” as some talking heads have labeled us.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Greatest QB we will ever have…period…👍

Which is incredibly disturbing and produces tremendous anxiety in terms of the pressure to win one now. 'Cause if we don't...

[JoshAllin]

If Knox and Davis don't drop some keys balls, bills are 5-6 wins right now and some games aren't so tight

[Success]

I said after the 13 seconds game that he had potential to be not just the best in the league today, but the GOAT.  His skillset is so complete.  He has ALL of the physical skills, all of the throws, and all of the intangibles & competitiveness.

 

I still think that.  As a possibility, of course.

 

[HappyDays]

He is a better QB now than he was in 2020 when he took us to the AFCCG. Unfortunately the talent around him is much worse now than it was then, so the results of that improvement aren't showing up on the record. His #2 and #3 targets are, respectively, a marginal and limited WR, and a TE who struggles with route running and drops 1 out of every 6 targets (keeping in mind that that includes all targets including uncatchable ones, so in reality it's even worse than that). It's almost unbelievable that Allen is performing as well as he has with this group. I would put him and Mahomes on the exact same level this year, and both I would say have an equal supporting cast when you factor in pass catchers, OL, and offensive coaching.

 

Some day I would love to see what Allen looks like with one of the best groups of pass catching weapons around him. I think it could be a top 5 greatest offense in history.

[GoBills808]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh is elite. But QB performance is the single biggest contributor to results. That is true whether you win or lose. 

 

He was unbelievable in the 2021 playoffs and the coaching and defense blew it. But the other playoff losses Josh has been a significant part of those. 

 

There is plenty of blame to go around. It starts with McDermott, it includes Beane's roster building, it includes Quarterback play. Sometimes people talk like we have had 2021 Josh Allen every year in the post season and it has been everyone else that has blown it every time. That is not the truth.

 

If Josh gets hot at the right time in any single year the Bills can beat anyone. And if there is another year where he is all world and it doesn't get it done then heads should and will roll.

You don't need all world QB play to get to a super bowl

 

The fact that we've actually had it and still haven't sniffed one should be indictment enough imo

[todd]

Did Tiger Woods win every tournament he played? Did he make every single cut? 

 

I get your point, though. Expecting Josh to win every game by himself, despite sub par play by some players on offense, is a bit much. And Dorsey has called some pretty bad games at times. 

 

I think that's the reason Josh relies on Diggs so much. He's really the only one on the same level as Josh. Nobody else comes close to those two talent-wise. People talk about the great teams having triplets. Dallas had aikman, irvin, and Emmit Smith. Buffalo had Kelly, Andre and Thurman, with Lofton as a wildcard. Who is the third guy after Allen and Diggs? Nobody. It's a huge disservice to Allen to put it on him, when there's really only two stars in skill positions on offense, and then there's a huge dropoff.

[hondo in seattle]

I wish we could hire Andy Reid as our offensive coordinator.  I think Josh would set records with Reid running the offense.  But that's not a realistic wish.  

 

So, barring that, I'd love to see Josh behind a good offensive line.  He'd have more time to throw.  Receivers would have more time to get open.  Backs would have holes to run through - meaning defenses would have to respect our run game and not focus solely on stopping Josh.  And a good OL would keep Josh healthy.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Fair question.

I think that Josh Allen is a no-doubt-about-it top five QB. Probably top 3. 

He is on pace to have a Hall of Fame level career. One championship will make it a no-brainer.

I think that Josh Allen can sometimes be beaten mentally. Certain defenses and defensive coordinators know how to get into his head, make him question what he's seeing, not trust his eyes, and overthink things. We've seen it against the Jets. We've seen it two years in a row against the Jaguars. We saw it against Wink Martindale and the Giants. The Steelers gave him fits the first two times he played them.

Josh Allen's greatest opponent is his own mind. When he's feeling confident, gets into a rhythm, and trusts what he sees, he's nearly unstoppable. That's not hyperbole -- when he's in that zone, he very literally CANNOT be stopped. When he can't get into a rhythm, is lacking in confidence, is not trusting what he's seeing, he becomes his own worst enemy. He starts pressing and overthinking things and the offense grinds to a halt.

So to answer the original question succinctly: Josh Allen is elite, and may go down as one of the greatest of all time. He is not without weaknesses, though, and his primary weakness is the ability of the opposition to beat him mentally via quality defensive scheming and by making him question what he's seeing.

 

 

Agree........his biggest problem is absolutely himself.

 

Second biggest problem is that there are A LOT of other good QB's in the league now.    It's not the dark ages where you had 6-7 QB's or less in the entire NFL who you could win a SB with without some kind of miracle happening in your favor...........and now you have more than that in the AFC alone.

 

Third.........he lacks the weapons that some of his competition have at their disposal.

 

This Bills team is a lot like the Chargers of Schottenheimer/Norv Turner in their combination of regular season dominance and playoff failure........and it was often said, and taken for granted even, that Philip Rivers would just win a SB at some point because those Chargers had such deep and talented rosters for a fairly long time.

 

Never materialized.