Please HELP save Niagara Falls Air Base

[scribo]

As much as I hate to see bases closing, it's going to happen. You can right 10 million letters and it won't change their plans. It's unfortunate because a lot of Americans are going to be put out of work. I see it on Camp Lejeune which is one of the, if not THE largest Marine base population wise. We're losing MILITARY positions to civilian contractors. Our military is starting to dwindle and we are already stretched too thin. It's not a good trend. 

351927[/snapback]

The military is not dwindling at all. In fact, both the Marine Corps and Army have both received Congressional authorization to grow their ranks. The Air Force and Navy are indeed lowering the overall number of airmen and sailors they currently have, but those decreases are less than the increases the Corps and Army are getting. The military is growing (assuming recruiting can keep up, of course).

 

As for the civilianization of many positions, this is definitely happening in a big way. But the reasoning behind this is two-fold. First, it can be cost effective for DOD to have civilians do certain jobs. Second, and more importantly, the reason many soldiers and Marines are losing billets to a civilian is because in this time of war, the services recognize the need for more trigger-pullers in the field and less trained warriors in the office, or mowing the lawn or fixing tanks stateside.

 

My input here has little to do with the Niagara Falls closing, which I'm fairly sure will happen regardless, but it is the same type of thinking that is closing many, many Guard and Reserve bases around the country.

 

In all, I think the Pentagon has the right idea -- streamline the military and create a more expeditionary force in readiness.

 

Incidentally, to avoid getting this thread moved to PPP, I am not saying I necessarily believe (or disbelieve) the BRAC list accomplishes what it meant to accomplish.

[stuckincincy]

Shut bases could get nuclear waste  -  How do you like this in your back yard?

www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/05/28/shut_bases_could_get_nuclear_waste/

 

Reasons to keep the base open:

 

As Niagara County's second largest employer with nearly 3,000 full and part-time workers, this would deliver another devastating blow to our region's economy.

 

The base site lies within close proximity to four major border crossing between the U.S. and Canada, along with the New York State Power Authority's Hydropower complex which harnesses the waters of the Niagara and supplies substantial power to the Northeast United States Grid.

 

While the base serves as a logistical backbone for the War on Terror, it is also strategically placed and fully expandable to allow the addition of a fighter squadron to further secure America's northern border and power grid infrastructure.  It should be expanded rather than closed.

 

According to the Niagara Military Affairs Council:

 

Closure of Niagara would reduce the Air Force presence in NY by 40%, and eliminate the last Federal Air Force flying mission in the State. Since 1995, Niagara has been modernized with $35M in new facilities and lengthened runways which have improved the operational effectiveness of the wings.

 

We have also reduced our Base Operations Support costs by not less than 33% (to include a 25% reduction in utilities) to make the base one of the most cost-efficient facilities in the Air Force Reserve Command.

 

Closure of the base would also eliminate the ability to recruit and retain New Yorkers in a region in which the units have both maintained in excess of 100% manning rates.

 

Niagara Falls existing infrastructure can accommodate 8 additional C-130H model aircraft without any military construction.

 

Niagara Falls faces no physical encroachment nor air traffic control constraints and has acreage on the base and adjacent to the installation for expansion.

 

I humbly request that you strongly reconsider the decision to close the station. The fine men and women of the 107th Air Refueling Wing and 914th Airlift Wing have been instrumental in securing the homefront and fighting the war on terror overseas.

352059[/snapback]

 

Do you work there or are you connected somehow that if it closes it will personally cost you money? You've not responded to my question about your claim of security.

 

Frankly, your post seems to be "let's give our money so this guy can cash a check".

 

No?

[BILLS02138]

Reality check:  You people need to look at the big picture.  Closing this base will certainly have an effect on the local economy but the reality is that alot of bases need to close both for strategic and economic reasons.

 

Everyone bitches about paying taxes but the minute the government does something that makes sense, the argument swings the other direction.

 

The strategic importance of NFANGB is negligible.  Close it.

352127[/snapback]

 

 

Reality Check: When have you last seen your taxes go down?

 

How long were tolls supposed to be on the NY Thruway? Grand Island Bridges?

 

Once gov't get's its tax money - they never relinguish.

[stuckincincy]

Reality Check: When have you last seen your taxes go down? 

 

How long were tolls supposed to be on the NY Thruway?  Grand Island Bridges?

 

Once gov't get's its tax money - they never relinguish.

352142[/snapback]

 

 

Still no answer to the security issue, or your own pocketbook.

 

I liked the bunch of talking points, though - good job with the propaganda transmission.

 

Pretty poor deflection attempt, though - the G.I. Bridge and the air base?

 

I suspect you might be one of the reasons why it's closing...

[BILLS02138]

Do you work there or are you connected somehow that if it closes it will personally cost you money? You've not responded to my question about your claim of security.

 

Frankly, your post seems to be "let's give our money so this guy can cash a check".

 

No?

352134[/snapback]

I grew up in the Town of Niagara. Went to Niagara Wheatfield. I have no connection other than the fact that the air force base is literally in my parents backyard. I'm tired of seeing the Niagara Region decline.

 

So, we loose 3000 jobs here in Niagara - a ton of families - what's the big deal?

What's next? The Ford Stamping Plant? American Axle? GM-Tonawanda Plant? Oh, so now we see other companies and jobs leaving - what's the big deal? Then the inevitable -- WNY can't support the Bills and Sabres, ah, big deal - let em go.

Right?

 

Other than that - if I don't do my part and volunteer here and there to help save the region - who will? I'm honestly amazed at the response by BILLS fans and fellow WNY'ers to this thread. If you don't know what good the base seves - don't be ignorant - do research, google, and find out.

 

Where do you live? What have you done to help save the WNY economy? Thought so.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I know that there is some sort of standard canned answer for this question.....but do the folks that close these bases factor in what it does to the local economy to kill a base?

 

Norton was just handled horribly I think.....it was bad enough that I had to watch businesses that had been open for years and years force to close their doors when the base started going away to nothing.....but then I was transferred to a detachment just off the side of was once Norton AFB and I had to actually stay there a while longer......

 

The place where me and my wife actually met no longer exists.......

352117[/snapback]

 

From what I saw of the coverage of the closure reccomedations it is written into the law that the commision consider the potential for alternate economic use as a factor in their decisions who to close and who to leave open.

 

I'm not sure to what extent this was a factor in their decision regarding Nigara Falls versus other bases but there should be a paper trail on this issue. Whether this paper trail is good info or mere lip service is something that one would have to read and research to make a rational judgment.

[BILLS02138]

Still no answer to the security issue, or your own pocketbook.

 

I liked the bunch of talking points, though - good job with the propaganda transmission.

 

Pretty poor deflection attempt, though - the G.I. Bridge and the air base?

 

I suspect you might be one of the reasons why it's closing...

352157[/snapback]

 

If my pocketbook had something to gain - do you think I would be here - encouraging fellow Bills fans and former WNY's to take two seconds to forward an email to the commission?

 

I'm sorry I have great feeling for Western New York. And I'm sorry you're stuck in cinncy... that's not my fault.

 

WNY is a great place and something worth fighting for. Sorry you don't feel that way.

 

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

 

ps: "I liked the bunch of talking points, though - good job with the propaganda transmission" <-- answers everyone one of your questions. sorry you don't like it - and clearly you can't argue with them because you criticized me instead of arguing the merits of keeping the base open.

[Alaska Darin]

Reality Check: When have you last seen your taxes go down? 

 

How long were tolls supposed to be on the NY Thruway?  Grand Island Bridges?

 

Once gov't get's its tax money - they never relinguish.

352142[/snapback]

Nothing like wasting a post preaching to the choir.

[stuckincincy]

If my pocketbook had something to gain - do you think I would be here - encouraging fellow Bills fans and former WNY's to take two seconds to forward an email to the commission?

 

I'm sorry I have great feeling for Western New York.  And I'm sorry you're stuck in cinncy... that's not my fault.

 

WNY is a great place and something worth fighting for.  Sorry you don't feel that way.

 

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

 

ps: "I liked the bunch of talking points, though - good job with the propaganda transmission" <-- answers everyone one of your questions.  sorry you don't like it - and clearly you can't argue with them because you criticized me instead of arguing the merits of keeping the base open. You're a loser man - you really are.

352164[/snapback]

 

You seem somewhat rattled..

 

The appelation, "man", says something about your maturity. As well as that infintile tribal attack against Cincinnati - I happened to live in Bflo for a third of a century.

 

Oh, BTW, when you advocate a position, expect some query as to motive. This is not High School here, with Honor Roll quotas and multiple head pets bestowed on the many Valedictorians.

 

I note your snit.

 

You have yet to make a single statement about the security necessity.

[BILLS02138]

You seem somewhat rattled..

 

The appelation, "man", says something about your maturity. As well as that infintile tribal attack against Cincinnati - I happened to live in Bflo for a third of a century.

 

Oh, BTW, when you advocate a position, expect some query as to motive. This is not High School here, with Honor Roll quotas and multiple head pets bestowed on the many Valedictorians.

 

I note your snit.

 

You have yet to make a single statement about the security necessity.

352182[/snapback]

 

You win. You win. Happy?

[scribo]

Reality Check: When have you last seen your taxes go down? 

 

How long were tolls supposed to be on the NY Thruway?  Grand Island Bridges?

 

Once gov't get's its tax money - they never relinguish.

352142[/snapback]

Actually, I remember my taxes going down about five years ago. But I realize that won't happen again for a long time regardless of what bases are closed. I also know that taxes would have to go up a great deal if BRAC didn't take place.

 

I am not for doing anything that will hurt an already weak economy in Western New York. I moved away some seven years ago and still miss it. I wish nothing but the best for everyone in the region.

 

I can say this much, those who want to stop this closing need to come up with more than just reasons to keep the base open. They need to come up with other ways to streamline the Air Guard in the Northeast and save funds at the same time. If DOD keeps that base open, which one should they close? Are there certain activities at the base that can be eliminated, rather than closing the entire base? That is the way other bases have survived being on the list before.

[BillnutinHouston]

If the base closes, what are they going to use that airport for?  A huge 10,000 ft runway and acres of land for a few Cessna 172's  a couple cargo flights and a charter maybe once a month? yikes, the NFTA will have to think of something.

351934[/snapback]

 

What a beautiful spot for a new casino or a Bass Pro shop.

[Berg]

When I was in the Air Force one of the assignments I was given was being on the base closier team for Norton and March AFB's here in California....

 

I cannot tell you how much I hated those assignments.....I actually put the locks on the friggen biuldings after everyone was gone (among other things) and when I roll back through those areas I am saddened to see what barren wastelands they have become (March is a reserve base but nowwhere near what it once was...Norton is just horrible)

 

They wanted to put me in for a Medal for my work....I declined it.  It just didn't seem right to me.

352030[/snapback]

 

I put the padlocks on George AFB in Victorville back in Dec 1992. It was pretty brutal being on of the last 150 off the base, but from a BRAC perspective, it was the right move. So is the Niagara Falls decision.

[Tux of Borg]

Fort Gillum (Atlanta) made the list to be closed as well. I spent some time there a few years back and hate to see it shutdown. But like Niagara Falls AFB, shutting it down saves money and won't impact our national defense.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Reality Check: When have you last seen your taxes go down? 

 

How long were tolls supposed to be on the NY Thruway?  Grand Island Bridges?

 

Once gov't get's its tax money - they never relinguish.

352142[/snapback]

Actually a tax viewed as important to some folks went down when Giambra led the way in putting through two large property tax reductions when he came into office. This substantial tax reduction is cited in the state comptroller's report released the other day in explaining the huge deficit we now have.

 

If one reduces income (taxes) then one should also reduce outflow (spending on voter mandated items). This did not happen.

 

Its hard to rationally let the voters off the hook for this one since they not only elected Giambra based on this platform, but they re-elected him overwhelmingly and gave his party control of the County Legislature as he did this.

[BILLS02138]

Fort Gillum (Atlanta) made the list to be closed as well.  I spent some time there a few years back and hate to see it shutdown.  But like Niagara Falls AFB, shutting it down saves money and won't impact our national defense.

352605[/snapback]

Let's apply the same methodology to the BILLS and WNY -

 

The County gives Ralph Wilson $90 Million to renovate Ralph Wilson Stadium and then $3Million a year for building maintenance - Say, we shut down the Bills - it saves us money, right?

[Ghost of BiB]

Maybe some committee should be working hard on an alternate use plan, istead of a "keep it running because of jobs" forum. There is simply no strategic or operational need to keep the place open. This stuff was not done on a whim. Look at DC. 50,000+ defense related jobs are going to be moved. The entire military presence in Atlanta will become history. Also, this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Anyone job displaced will have plenty of opportunity to look elsewhere. I'm not saying that's good, or fun...but it's not like getting a pink slip with two weeks notice.

 

That's a lot of runway to have sitting there. Maybe WNY could consider incentives for someone to make use of it, rather than find reasons to chase business away.

 

Plenty of other, much larger installations have closed - and those who have considered and intelligently worked out alternative use plans seem to be doing pretty well.

[BarkLessWagMore]

Actually a tax viewed as important to some folks went down when Giambra led the way in putting through two large property tax reductions when he came into office.  This substantial tax reduction is cited in the state comptroller's report released the other day in explaining the huge deficit we now have.

 

If one reduces income (taxes) then one should also reduce outflow (spending on voter mandated items). This did not happen.

 

Its hard to rationally let the voters off the hook for this one since they not only elected Giambra based on this platform, but they re-elected him overwhelmingly and gave his party control of the County Legislature as he did this.

352716[/snapback]

 

Huh? So the tax reduction was evil. That's news to me. Personally, I have enjoyed that extra 30% of MY money these past few years and feel quite confident I have put it to better use than Erie County would have.

 

As a voter, I didn't realize that Giambra losing his marbles was my responsibility. FYI, when initially elected, Giambra's platform was the tax reduction combined with a downsizing of governments through consolidations, staffing cuts, pork cuts, etc. Seems laughable now, but that is what he promised. Look it up, Thurman.

 

Finally, what is a voter mandated item? I have been voting for many years and never new I had the power to do anything except vote. In conclusion, the voters are on the hook for NOTHING and most politicians (including Hevasi) stink.

[stuckincincy]

You win.  You win.  Happy?

352199[/snapback]

 

I apologize to you for my harsh comments.

[scribo]

Let's apply the same methodology to the BILLS and WNY -

 

The County gives Ralph Wilson $90 Million to renovate Ralph Wilson Stadium and then $3Million a year for building maintenance - Say, we shut down the Bills - it saves us money, right?

352761[/snapback]

I really don't understand the comparison here. The Bills make money for the county. A lot of money. The county isn't paying that cash to Mr. Wilson because the board is full of fans. They are paying because it is an investment. The county is a business. If some day the county decided the Bills are no longer worth investing in, yes, the team will likely move.

 

This base appantely isn't cost effective, so the Pentagon isn't going to invest in it anymore.

 

Oh, I agree if you're saying that cutting jobs in WNY endangers the Bills staying in Buffalo. That alone could be reason enough for us to support the move to get the base off the BRAC list.