Talk about McD and Allen are always linked Any QB ever become a transcended star on another team?

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

The best example for a QB who became a star on a different team that drafted him would be Steve Young. 
 

Drafted by the Bucs and traded to the 49ers and became a HOF QB. Ibdont remember if he was a top pick for the Bucs though. 

Young was a top pick and TB gave up after 2 years, bit then Young also didn't play much behind Montana.  He is a very interesting case.

 

I was referr8ng to those who were considered busts and then had success.  Alex Smith is a good example, but even end the end he was just above average when better coached.

 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

I say let’s trade Josh to San Fran and see if he’ll have success.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:37 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who is responsible for the Bills success is always a hot topic.

 

There are those who hold McD in mythical regard as he resurrected a 2-14 franchise and is the saviour.  Yes hyperbole (never were they 2-14), because I have pointed out many times that Buffalo was seldom really bad during the 19 year drought, just never good enough.

 

I know I will hear just what bad shape the Bills were in due to salary cap and other issues when Rex left, but they were too a team vying for the playoffs his last year too.

 

Is McD a good coach, I think he is.  Is he great, I don't think so and thus I am one to say his success is basically due to having Josh Allen as the QB.

 

I have also blamed McD for holding Allen back and we still have not seen what he is fully capable of.

 

This is the divide on TSW....  The chicken or the egg so to speak.  Some think the Bills success is a 50/50 split, some may give McD more credit for the Bills and others say it is 80% due to Josh.

 

Now that brings me to the next part of the thread and we have been through all these highly drafted QB's and when a team hits the jackpot with one, they better cash in or else.

 

It then occurred to me that all the busts (or those that didn't live up to the hype) never really blossomed on another team.  Yes some back-ups and fringe starting QB's have done well with a change of scenery and better coaches, but has ever a top pick (ie. first 15) flamed out and then became a star elsewhere?

 

Jared Goff maybe the closest and is the perfect example of what having a great OC means to a QB.

 

Anyone else?

Lol, does ANYONE think McDermott is more responsible than Allen?!? If so, please identify yourself because I will not respect your football opinions moving forward. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[Bray Wyatt]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, does ANYONE think McDermott is more responsible than Allen?!? If so, please identify yourself because I will not respect your football opinions moving forward. 

 

Like i said, this thread is a strawman

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Like i said, this thread is a strawman

The OP does these to draw attention to himself.

[Captain Hindsight]

Jake Plummer had some good years in Denver after being in AZ

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Young was a top pick and TB gave up after 2 years, bit then Young also didn't play much behind Montana.  He is a very interesting case.

 

I was referr8ng to those who were considered busts and then had success.  Alex Smith is a good example, but even end the end he was just above average when better coached.

 

Hmm how about Jim Plunkett? Drafted in the first round by NE (God we were dysfunctional for like 30 years lol) and ended up winning a SB with the Raiders later on in his career. I think most consider him a fringe HOFer type talent.  

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Young was a top pick and TB gave up after 2 years, bit then Young also didn't play much behind Montana.  He is a very interesting case.

 

I was referr8ng to those who were considered busts and then had success.  Alex Smith is a good example, but even end the end he was just above average when better coached.

 

 

Rich Gannon...he accomplished far more than Alex Smith did.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Young was a top pick and TB gave up after 2 years, bit then Young also didn't play much behind Montana.  He is a very interesting case.

 

I was referr8ng to those who were considered busts and then had success.  Alex Smith is a good example, but even end the end he was just above average when better coached.

 

 

Young was considered a bust. Now okay, he then served as a backup for 4 years before he became a starter and a top end starter at that. But he meets your criteria. 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, does ANYONE think McDermott is more responsible than Allen?!? If so, please identify yourself because I will not respect your football opinions moving forward. 

 

Nope. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, does ANYONE think McDermott is more responsible than Allen?!? If so, please identify yourself because I will not respect your football opinions moving forward. 

There are many who do hold McD as the saviour of the franchise.  Look at any thread questioning him and the emoji's that almost all are vomits,disagrees and negative as they disagree with any criticism.

 

I will pound on the drum that McD has hindered more then helped Allen.

 

The moves and money have been invested more in the defense then the franchise qb.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

There are many who do hold McD as the saviour of the franchise.  Look at any thread questioning him and the emoji's that almost all are vomits,disagrees and negative as they disagree with any criticism.

 

I will pound on the drum that McD has hindered more then helped Allen.

 

The moves and money have been invested more in the defense then the franchise qb.

 

No they don't and not even close.  It's the content of your post that they are vomitting and disagreeing with.  You for whatever reason cannot understand this. 

 

"Oh, they don't hate McDermott as much as me!!  They must think he's a savior!!"

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

There are many who do hold McD as the saviour of the franchise.  Look at any thread questioning him and the emoji's that almost all are vomits,disagrees and negative as they disagree with any criticism.

 

I will pound on the drum that McD has hindered more then helped Allen.

 

The moves and money have been invested more in the defense then the franchise qb.

I’ve asked them to identify themselves. I don’t think that ANYONE believes McDermott is more responsible than Allen. If they do, they can say it.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No they don't and not even close.  It's the content of your post that they are vomitting and disagreeing with.  You for whatever reason cannot understand this. 

 

"Oh, they don't hate McDermott as much as me!!  They must think he's a savior!!"

Again yes we know on my threads it is popular, but go to any thread were one questions McD or his tenure and the person who posted it is eviscerated in the first post.  Conversely praise McD and nothing but positive emoji's (looking at you eball). 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ve asked them to identify themselves. I don’t think that ANYONE believes McDermott is more responsible than Allen. If they do, they can say it.

I hope none, but many link them and doesn't question McD's development of him (which I do and that infuriates some).

 

Do you think McDermott should be credited with Allen's progress?  I say this because Reid certainly has played a hand in Mahomes ascension, Pederson for Hurts, McDaniel for Tua, Ben Johnson (OC) for Goff's resurgence........ 

[Royale with Cheese]

48 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again yes we know on my threads it is popular, but go to any thread were one questions McD or his tenure and the person who posted it is eviscerated in the first post.  Conversely praise McD and nothing but positive emoji's (looking at you eball). 

 

 

 

 

I hope none, but many link them and doesn't question McD's development of him (which I do and that infuriates some).

 

Do you think McDermott should be credited with Allen's progress?  I say this because Reid certainly has played a hand in Mahomes ascension, Pederson for Hurts, McDaniel for Tua, Ben Johnson (OC) for Goff's resurgence........ 

 

Wow, I mean wow.

 

Your strawman is incredible.  This anti-McDermott obsession is pretty damn weird.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Wow, I mean wow.

 

Your strawman is incredible.  This anti-McDermott obsession is pretty damn weird.  

What???? Your obsession with me is scary.  I've said over and over that McD is a decent coach, and damn I hope he and the Bills win a Superbowl this year.  

 

What I've never liked is how bad the offence was 2017-2019, the continual talk of "culture" and yep 13 seconds.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again yes we know on my threads it is popular, but go to any thread were one questions McD or his tenure and the person who posted it is eviscerated in the first post.  Conversely praise McD and nothing but positive emoji's (looking at you eball). 

 

 

 

 

I hope none, but many link them and doesn't question McD's development of him (which I do and that infuriates some).

 

Do you think McDermott should be credited with Allen's progress?  I say this because Reid certainly has played a hand in Mahomes ascension, Pederson for Hurts, McDaniel for Tua, Ben Johnson (OC) for Goff's resurgence........ 

I have never heard 1 single person say that McDermott is more responsible than Allen. You started a thread saying that this is a thing. I’m pretty involved in the “Bills world.” I’ve never once heard that. You just created a topic that no one thinks. Find people that believe McDermott is more responsible than Allen…

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have never heard 1 single person say that McDermott is more responsible than Allen. You started a thread saying that this is a thing. I’m pretty involved in the “Bills world.” I’ve never once heard that. You just created a topic that no one thinks. Find people that believe McDermott is more responsible than Allen…

Just looking for attention.  It’s very sad to see.

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have never heard 1 single person say that McDermott is more responsible than Allen. You started a thread saying that this is a thing. I’m pretty involved in the “Bills world.” I’ve never once heard that. You just created a topic that no one thinks. Find people that believe McDermott is more responsible than Allen…

I never said that what I said is I think McD has stunted Allen and that is my biggest concern about him.  I then cited Pederson, McDaniel, Reid and Johnson as coaches who have had a big hand in their qbs' success. 

[Kirby Jackson]

14 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I never said that what I said is I think McD has stunted Allen and that is my biggest concern about him.  I then cited Pederson, McDaniel, Reid and Johnson as coaches who have had a big hand in their qbs' success. 

 

On 10/19/2023 at 7:37 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who is responsible for the Bills success is always a hot topic.

 

@Billsfan1972 this you?

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

@Billsfan1972 this you?

Biggest problem with TBD is too many folks having debates with the voices in their heads.