Talk about McD and Allen are always linked Any QB ever become a transcended star on another team?

[Billsfan1972]

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who is responsible for the Bills success is always a hot topic.

 

There are those who hold McD in mythical regard as he resurrected a 2-14 franchise and is the saviour.  Yes hyperbole (never were they 2-14), because I have pointed out many times that Buffalo was seldom really bad during the 19 year drought, just never good enough.

 

I know I will hear just what bad shape the Bills were in due to salary cap and other issues when Rex left, but they were too a team vying for the playoffs his last year too.

 

Is McD a good coach, I think he is.  Is he great, I don't think so and thus I am one to say his success is basically due to having Josh Allen as the QB.

 

I have also blamed McD for holding Allen back and we still have not seen what he is fully capable of.

 

This is the divide on TSW....  The chicken or the egg so to speak.  Some think the Bills success is a 50/50 split, some may give McD more credit for the Bills and others say it is 80% due to Josh.

 

Now that brings me to the next part of the thread and we have been through all these highly drafted QB's and when a team hits the jackpot with one, they better cash in or else.

 

It then occurred to me that all the busts (or those that didn't live up to the hype) never really blossomed on another team.  Yes some back-ups and fringe starting QB's have done well with a change of scenery and better coaches, but has ever a top pick (ie. first 15) flamed out and then became a star elsewhere?

 

Jared Goff maybe the closest and is the perfect example of what having a great OC means to a QB.

 

Anyone else?

Edited October 19, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[BuffaloBillyG]

Steve Young immediately comes to mind.

[Charles Romes]

If the Bills win it all it will because McD schemed 2+ turnovers in successive huge playoff games, and he will get the credit. Plunkett

[Trogdor]

Drew Brees, 2nd QB taken in his draft and really flourished in NO after getting injured on the Chargers. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Drew Brees, 2nd QB taken in his draft and really flourished in NO after getting injured on the Chargers. 

Drew really was the other example, but already showed he was a good QB prior to the trade.  

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Drew really was the other example, but already showed he was a good QB prior to the trade.  

I think it was the comeback from injury. Generally teams don't let good QBs walk, so it's going to be a short list lol. 

[Chaos]

Steve Young is the best example.  Not many teams trade superstar QBs. Another that comes to mind for having second team success is Tom Brady 

[BobbyC81]

Jim Plunkett

[Andrew Son]

Geno!

[oldmanfan]

43 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who  is responsible for the others success is always a hot topic.

 

There are those who hold McD in mythical regard as he resurrected a 2-14 franchise and is the saviour.  Yes hyperbole (never were they 2-14), because I have pointed out many times that Buffalo was seldom really bad during the 19 year drought, just never good enough.

 

I know I will hear just what bad shape the Bills were in due to salary cap and other issues when Rex left, but they were too a team vying for the playoffs his last year too.

 

Is McD a good coach, I think he is.  Is he great, I don't think so and thus I am one to say his success is basically due to having Josh Allen as the QB.

 

I have also blamed McD for holding Allen back and we still have not seen what he is fully capable of.

 

This is the divide on TSW....  The chicken or the egg so to speak.  Some think the Bills success is a 50/50 split, some may give McD more credit for the Bills and others say it is 80% due to Josh.

 

Now that brings me to the next part of the thread and we have been through all these highly drafted QB's and when a team hits the jackpot with one, they better cash in or else.

 

It then occurred to me that all the busts (or those that didn't live up to the hype) never really blossomed on another team.  Yes some back-ups and fringe starting QB's have done well with a change of scenery and better coaches, but has ever a top pick (ie. first 15) flamed out and then became a star elsewhere?

 

Jared Goff maybe the closest and is the perfect example of what having a great OC means to a QB.

 

Anyone else?

Jim Plunkett.

[Gregg]

Peyton had some really good years with the Broncos. But the last year or year and a half his skills were shot.

[The Jokeman]

59 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who  is responsible for the others success is always a hot topic.

 

There are those who hold McD in mythical regard as he resurrected a 2-14 franchise and is the saviour.  Yes hyperbole (never were they 2-14), because I have pointed out many times that Buffalo was seldom really bad during the 19 year drought, just never good enough.

 

I know I will hear just what bad shape the Bills were in due to salary cap and other issues when Rex left, but they were too a team vying for the playoffs his last year too.

 

Is McD a good coach, I think he is.  Is he great, I don't think so and thus I am one to say his success is basically due to having Josh Allen as the QB.

 

I have also blamed McD for holding Allen back and we still have not seen what he is fully capable of.

 

This is the divide on TSW....  The chicken or the egg so to speak.  Some think the Bills success is a 50/50 split, some may give McD more credit for the Bills and others say it is 80% due to Josh.

 

Now that brings me to the next part of the thread and we have been through all these highly drafted QB's and when a team hits the jackpot with one, they better cash in or else.

 

It then occurred to me that all the busts (or those that didn't live up to the hype) never really blossomed on another team.  Yes some back-ups and fringe starting QB's have done well with a change of scenery and better coaches, but has ever a top pick (ie. first 15) flamed out and then became a star elsewhere?

 

Jared Goff maybe the closest and is the perfect example of what having a great OC means to a QB.

 

Anyone else?

My immediate thought was Daryl Lamonica. Not so much he was limited here but he was stuck playing behind Kemp.

 

Steve Young might be a guy can claim was held back by coaching in Tampa or surrounding cast wasn't so good. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Scott7975]

51 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here at TSW the debate over McD and Allen and who  is responsible for the others success is always a hot topic.

 

There are those who hold McD in mythical regard as he resurrected a 2-14 franchise and is the saviour.  Yes hyperbole (never were they 2-14), because I have pointed out many times that Buffalo was seldom really bad during the 19 year drought, just never good enough.

 

I know I will hear just what bad shape the Bills were in due to salary cap and other issues when Rex left, but they were too a team vying for the playoffs his last year too.

 

Is McD a good coach, I think he is.  Is he great, I don't think so and thus I am one to say his success is basically due to having Josh Allen as the QB.

 

I have also blamed McD for holding Allen back and we still have not seen what he is fully capable of.

 

This is the divide on TSW....  The chicken or the egg so to speak.  Some think the Bills success is a 50/50 split, some may give McD more credit for the Bills and others say it is 80% due to Josh.

 

Now that brings me to the next part of the thread and we have been through all these highly drafted QB's and when a team hits the jackpot with one, they better cash in or else.

 

It then occurred to me that all the busts (or those that didn't live up to the hype) never really blossomed on another team.  Yes some back-ups and fringe starting QB's have done well with a change of scenery and better coaches, but has ever a top pick (ie. first 15) flamed out and then became a star elsewhere?

 

Jared Goff maybe the closest and is the perfect example of what having a great OC means to a QB.

 

Anyone else?

 

Can you list all the current head coaches you think are better than McD and why you think that?  Very few coaches around the league have had the success McD has had. Yes, some have had more success but not many has had as much success.  Allen is a part of that sure, but if you list coaches that haven't had success because they don't have a QB then you don't really know what kind of success they would have if they did have one.

[oldmanfan]

Doug Williams

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I think McDermott is vastly underrated around these parts and this whole talk of firing him because he can’t outduel likely the best qb of all time in the playoffs is an eerily similar setup to the bears firing lovie smith and promptly becoming an absolute dumpster fire.  The guy is getting a ton out of all his defensive players to the point where virtually anyone can step in and play pretty well.
 

We were frequently very bad during the drought and helped out by the fact that two other teams in our division were even worse 

 

this feels very ‘grass is greener to me’…look at the dolphins with their offensive mastermind head coach.  When they face a playoff caliber opponent their offense struggles and their defense gets smoked and barring a miracle they lose.  Dolphins are like 2-7 vs playoff teams in his tenure and those two wins they just barely squeaked by injury ravaged bills and ravens teams 

[mrags]

Steve Young

Brett Farve

Geno Smith

Drew Brees was pretty good for like 2 year in SD but he was nothing like he became with the Saints. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by mrags

[warrior9]

Alex Smith. 

 

He was good with 49ers near the end but very good with Chiefs

[Big Turk]

Rich Gannon...was mostly bad in Minnesota, nothing special in Washington or KC, then went to the Raiders and became 2002 MVP, 4x Pro-Bowler and 2x All-Pro.  Honestly very similar late career transcendence similar to Geno Smith. Smith hasn't reached that level yet and likely won't due to the number of other great QBs in the league right now, but he played very well last year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm

 

Brett Favre was mostly a bust with Atlanta and went to Green Bay,won Super Bowl(s) and became a HOF'er and 2x MVP, 11x Pro-Bowler and 3x All-Pro.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Turk

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Doug Williams

 

Doug Williams was never "transcendent" nor a star at anytime during his career.  He won a Super Bowl, was SB MVP and might have played a few good games here and there, but overall he was worse in Washington than he was in Tampa Bay.  Never threw more than 15 TD passes with the Redskins in a season.  Never was voted to the Pro-Bowl or All-Pro at any time during his career.

 

Simply put, he played the greatest game of his life in the Super Bowl but outside of that was nothing special.  Basically he wasn't even Nick Foles level. Kinda similar to Joe Namath too...everyone remembers the SB guarantee and win but his career numbers are abysmal.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

I don't know if I understand the relationship between the preamble and the question in the OP. 

 

"Here are some words about why I don't like Sean McDermott."

 

"Has any QB ever busted with one team then been good with another?"