Simms: Gabe Davis is a good player, but he's not a number two

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think he had the ball in his wrong hand though for the fumble. I think he had it on the left side but could be wrong.

 

But yes, I agree 

 

I don't remember details, but, he definitely had the ball towards the field instead of towards the sideline as running backs (and receivers who RAC) are trained to do.

[SectionC3]

Maybe he’s a #2.  Maybe he’s not.  He’s better in the tertiary role he played when Beasley was here. 

 

Related observation: I like both players, but I won’t miss watching the ball bounce off of Davis or watching one of Knox’s flailing drops when they’re gone.  

[Chicken Boo]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

What constitutes a "#2 WR"?  Because by any metrics you choose to use, Davis is squarely in the middle of #2 WR's compared to his peers in the rest of the NFL. Was last year and is even higher this year...I mean he is #27 in receiving yards this season(#26 if we take out Kelce and only count WRs), which is above #2 levels if we are considering there are 32 #1 WR's and 32 #2 WR's on teams.  Also is tied for 4th in TDs, 1 TD behind Diggs, and 11th in Successful play percentage at 66.7%. Interestingly Kincaid is the highest Bill in this category at 68.4% and is 7th.

 

I think what the issue is, is that we see a very few teams with high level, high pick WR 2's like Philadelphia, Cincinnati and San Diego(before Mike Williams got injured) and we assume EVERY #2 WR across the NFL should be putting up those numbers, but what people don't actually realize is that MOST #2 WR's in the NFL are putting up in the range of 600-700 yards in a season, which is a bar Davis easily clears.

 

 

If this team is going to be as reliant on Josh Allen as they have been so far in his career, then he needs to be surrounded by the best weapons possible.

 

Gabe Davis's spot can be upgraded.  I don't think that's up for debate.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Scott7975]

22 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

But who else to we have to run the deep clear out routes?  Isn't that the idea?  Gabe can take the top off,  Diggs can do everything, and you have Knox and Kincaid to work the middle and stretch the seem.  A gadget jitterbug in Harty and a good receiving back in Cook.

 

I think our weapons are fine, as you can see with our big output games.  It is consistency that hurts us.

 

Its not like Davis has speed.  Any receiver can run sprints down the field.  Need a guy that can do more than that.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

I’m fairly certain if the Bills somehow signed Devante Adams and moved Davis to the third outside receiver Diggs would still get most of the targets by a wide margin. 
 

Upgrade Davis wi the somebody more explosive. Definitely find somebody in the slot.

 

But getting the ball to other players not named Diggs has been an issue since Diggs came to Buffalo. I’m not saying Diggs sucks. He obviously balls. But rewatching some of these games in A-22, defenses are just ignoring some of our TE and RB in coverage. And we’re tossing it to double covered WR’s. 
 

All these things need to be better. And we can’t go out and draft a new WR in week 6 so I am going to keep harping on the things we can control. Commit to running the ball under center more and throw the ball to the open pass catcher. 

 

I think you'd take a real risk of finding someone not as "explosive" in terms of downfield plays if you replaced him.  Like him or not, the man averages more YPC than anyone other than MVS since 2020. He may not have blazing speed but he is effective at getting downfield in a major way.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Turk

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Replace him with a guy who isn't able to take the top off a defense and see what happens...you wouldn't like it.

 

Since 2020, the only WR with more than 75 catches who has a higher yards per reception is Marquez Valdez-Scantling.

 

 

As I said above, he isn't taking the top off a defense with speed or some superior route skills.  He is running sprints and catching balls on busted coverage or off script plays.  There aren't many receivers in the NFL that can't do that.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Its not like Davis has speed.  Any receiver can run sprints down the field.  Need a guy that can do more than that.

 

But yet he has the 2nd highest YPC in the NFL since 2020 next to MVS.  There is far more to getting open downfield than speed.

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

As I said above, he isn't taking the top off a defense with speed or some superior route skills.  He is running sprints and catching balls on busted coverage or off script plays.  There aren't many receivers in the NFL that can't do that.

 

Then there must be a WHOLE LOT of busted coverages because he creates separation downfield a lot...far more than would be expected for simply "busted coverages".  I think you desperately want to believe something that simply isn't true.  He gets open downfield, not thru speed but he is deceptively fast and uses his large body to create separation at times running by players.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Turk

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't remember details, but, he definitely had the ball towards the field instead of towards the sideline as running backs (and receivers who RAC) are trained to do.

 

Yes, he had it in his left arm.

[Mango]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

I think you'd take a real risk of finding someone not as "explosive" in terms of downfield plays if you replaced him.  Like him or not, the man averages more YPC than anyone other than MVS since 2020.

I don’t disagree with you. I’ve been against borrowing from other position group spending and signing a 1a/1b WR. Allen and Diggs combine for $70M+ next year. Adding another $15-20M receiver isn’t how franchises set themselves up for success year after year. That’s a move that puts you all in once then you turn into the Rams. Allen is better than Goff and Stafford. I have zero interest in mortgaging the future when you have a real capable QB in place.  
 

If we want to draft a top WR high, I’m OK with it. 

 

 

[HOUSE]

Gabe needs new gloves. This pair is greasy 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

Gabe needs new gloves. This pair is greasy 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But yet he has the 2nd highest YPC in the NFL since 2020 next to MVS.  There is far more to getting open downfield than speed.

 

Then there must be a WHOLE LOT of busted coverages because he creates separation downfield a lot...far more than would be expected for simply "busted coverages".  I think you desperately want to believe something that simply isn't true.  He gets open downfield, not thru speed but he is deceptively fast and uses his large body to create separation at times running by players.

 

Because he has Josh Allen throwing him the football.  The guy that extends plays. Routes aren't covered forever. The guy averages 3 catches a game.  As I said, he is a chunk receiver but not a chain mover.  We need a chain mover not named Diggs.

 

He isn't fast.  He isn't good at contested catches. He doesn't separate accept on long developing busted coverage.  He runs 2 routes.  He doesn't even fight the ball on potential ints.  Typical his hands aren't good.  They have been so far this season but it's a small sample size.  There is nothing special about this guy.  He isn't doing anything special to catch a couple deep balls a game.  There are a ton of receivers that can catch a couple deep balls a game.  The reason he has the yards he does and other receivers around the league might not is because most other teams aren't using their receivers like that.  They are running standard routes.  Davis is just running sprints.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

10 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Chiefs have the best TE (aka a WR1) and like five WR3s. They do just fine.

That's literally the only comp where that's true imho, because Andy's probably the best in the league at scheming open "easy" passes for his QB--put that same situation in say, New England for example with Mac n Cheese's offense, and see how that's been going? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

100% correct in the way he said it. Gabe is a product of scheme and Josh Allen. He doesn’t win on routes consistently and he has no run after catch ability. Not even going to mention his inconsistency catching the football.
 

Also agree no one else on the team besides Diggs has shown that ability either. The Bills need someone else that can either win on their route consistently without scheme or someone that can turn a 7 yard catch into 30

yards with yac. Someone that does both would be great.

 

I actually don’t need Gabe’s role to change. They just need someone else besides Diggs that makes plays and wins consistently for Josh Allen. Someone like what Beasley was in his prime.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[C.Biscuit97]

I think we need to redefine what a number 2 receiver is then. By all accounts, Davis has been producing at a number 2 level. But are we hoping for more of a 1A and 1B situation like the Bengals or fins? Well that’s a different story.

 

davis has completely exceed his draft status. And despite how many 100 page threads you post, with the cap situation as it is, we aren’t going to get one of those guys in FA/ trade. The best bet is drafting one high and we haven’t done that. 

[juno999]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yeah, so far this year his hands have been ok.  He had one or two drops that were drive killers but other than that he has been mostly catching the stuff that he should. I can't even really blame him for the fumble.  I was pissed when that happened but since then, I have seen a video replay and the defender punched him in the head.  Hard enough that his head twisted to the limits.  Even still, he is one trick pony and this offense needs more than that.

I can fault him for the fumble.  Ball was in wrong hand and only one hand.  He had 3 Giants around him.  He needed to protect the ball better.  I thought that was a big play early on in the game.  Gave Giants life and it killed a promising Bills drive.

[SoCal Deek]

Davis is his own worst enemy. His drops always seem to be at the worst times and his fumbles always seem to be when he’s just not playing smart after a catch. As others have posted, his actual receiving numbers are comparable to other #2 WRs. (The Bills 2023 offense does miss a reliable slot receiver.)

[CEN-CAL17]

I saw a weird play against the Giants in regard to Davis…. He was put into motion, and then asked to stay in and block, like a TE, in the pocket.

 

How many number 2s in this league are asked to not run routes and block?

 

Just different and I thought it was a little weird.

[Warriorspikes51]

Solution:

 

D. Adams & Diggs  1A & 1A 

Gabe   3

[Big Turk]

11 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Chiefs have the best TE (aka a WR1) and like five WR3s. They do just fine.

 

Their points per game has taken a pretty sharp drop this year. Surprisingly it's their defense that has been playing well to help them win some of these games they might have otherwise lost.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Turk