Simms: Gabe Davis is a good player, but he's not a number two

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

What does "not a number 2" even mean anymore?

 

Do you really mean he's not a number 1 playing the number 2 role like Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Tyler Lockett or Devonta Smith?

 

 

This is where I am at. Two number ones is the new black. 

[Maine-iac]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And now the people who have been defending Gabe as a #2 are reacting to his continued inconsistency by claiming that they just need a better slot receiver.  

 

Ignoring the fact that the majority of the teams that the Bills are trying to get thru to win a SB have second options that can succeed at any of the WR positions.

 

It's a process getting some of these people to "see the forest for the trees".

Name me the majority of the teams.  I can think of 3 teams that might have a better number 2 than Davis.  I can think of one team that did win a SB that doesn't have a single WR that is better than Davis.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

 

Do we love Chris Simms again, now that he agrees with what seems like a vast majority of the people posting here?

 

He's not wrong that the passing offense has looked far too reliant on Stefon Diggs

 

On the other hand....the Bills are a whopping 5 yards off from being a top-10 rushing team (currently 12th), WITHOUT as much contribution from Josh Allen's legs at this time (and most of his contribution did come in the first 3 games)

 

Right now, Mahomes has more rush attempts and more rush yards than Allen....they are right next to the Bills for rushing yards.  I will grant that they seem to be utilizing 2nd round rookie Rashee Rice more and relying on Kelce a bit less in the passing game.  But again, similar rush yards - Mahomes more rush yards than Allen - what does Chris Simms say about the Chiefs, are they too reliant on Mahomes?

 

AJ Brown has 60 targets and 672 yds, Devonta Smith 44 targets and 344 yards, while Hurts of course has 30% of the teams rush attempts and close to 30% of their rush yards....does that mean the Eagles are too reliant on Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown?

 

(for context, Diggs 66 receptions 620 yds, Davis 30 targets 341 yds)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Beck Water

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And now the people who have been defending Gabe as a #2 are reacting to his continued inconsistency by claiming that they just need a better slot receiver.  

 

Ignoring the fact that the majority of the teams that the Bills are trying to get thru to win a SB have second options that can succeed at any of the WR positions.

 

It's a process getting some of these people to "see the forest for the trees".

It’s a hell of a lot easier finding a slot guy than a boundary WR better than Davis.

 

unless you’re Brandon Beane and can do neither.

[Dr.Sack]

Imagine if Gabe was a #2 he’d be dominant 8tds vs 4tds and pushing Diggs for #1 level targets. 

[Doc Brown]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

That's true because he knows the offense and has chemistry with Josh. That doesn't make him a solid WR2. The Bills should have upgraded the WR2 position. Obviously, Kincaid isn't that guy. 

It should be way too early to say Kincaid isn't that guy even for the most negative posters.  They definitely should've upgraded at WR2 though which is why most of us were clamoring for Hopkins.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It should be way too early to say Kincaid isn't that guy even for the most negative posters.  They definitely should've upgraded at WR2 though which is why most of us were clamoring for Hopkins.

It’s almost November….

[Maine-iac]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It should be way too early to say Kincaid isn't that guy even for the most negative posters.  They definitely should've upgraded at WR2 though which is why most of us were clamoring for Hopkins.

I mean just because Davis has more catches and TD's than Hopkins is no reason to think Hopkins might not have been much of an upgrade.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Maine-iac

[Doc Brown]

Just now, FireChans said:

It’s almost November….

He's a rookie TE who's only played five games.  

[FireChans]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

He's a rookie TE who's only played five games.  

Almost like it’s a poor strategy to rely on a late first round rookie TE to significantly contribute as a starting big slot receiver on a team trying to make a deep playoff and superbowl run.

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Maine-iac said:

I mean just because Davis has more catches and TD's than Hopkins is no reason to think Hopkins might not have been much of an upgrade.

He has Ryan Tannehill throwing him the ball in an offense that thinks it's 1972.

Just now, FireChans said:

Almost like it’s a poor strategy to rely on a late first round rookie TE to significantly contribute as a starting big slot receiver on a team trying to make a deep playoff and superbowl run.

It is but to say he's never going to be that guy is extremely premature.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

He has Ryan Tannehill throwing him the ball in an offense that thinks it's 1972.

It is but to say he's never going to be that guy is extremely premature.

He ain’t gonna be that guy this year, and we are trying to win a Super Bowl this year. 
 

I am not supremely concerned that Kincaid is going to be a bust. I am supremely concerned that he was penned as the missing link and has been mostly just missing 

[Maine-iac]

Maybe we should have brought in Julio Jones  ............. hell bring back Anquan Boldin that worked out pretty well.  What we shouldn't be focused on are the positions that are not producing at all like slot or TE.  

[Doc Brown]

Just now, FireChans said:

He ain’t gonna be that guy this year, and we are trying to win a Super Bowl this year. 
 

I am not supremely concerned that Kincaid is going to be a bust. I am supremely concerned that he was penned as the missing link and has been mostly just missing 

Not with that attitude.  He'll improve and five games it too small of a sample size.  It is interesting though that their worst game offensively production wise happened to be the one he missed.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's like how a lot of Bills fans thought we made a mistake letting Isaiah Hodgins go last year because he had decent production for the Giants. How's that looking now? Targets and catches have to go somewhere. The #2 passing target in one of the most high volume passing offenses in the league with an elite QB is ALWAYS going to get 800-900 yards. Pointing to Davis's pure volume numbers is a crutch for people who want to avoid talking about his actual capabilities as a player.

This is all true. But what did you expect?

 

If anyone was thinking that Gabe was gonna turn into a Diggs-lite in year 4, they were crazy. 
 

But there’s still a Cole Beasley sized-hole missing on this offense. If you want to say that missing player should be WR2 in target shares, fine. I don’t disagree. 
 

But we don’t have that player. That ain’t Gabe’s fault.

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Not with that attitude.  He'll improve and five games it too small of a sample size.  It is interesting though that their worst game offensively production wise happened to be the one he missed.

It also rained at my house when the Bills lost in London. Must’ve been the weather. 
 

I’ll believe that Kincaid can produce and contribute at a high level this year when I see it, not before. Already got sucked into the camp hype once to watch this dude run Reggie Gilliam routes.

[Beck Water]

#2 WR has become this decade's "Franchise QB".

 

Remember when we used to have heated debates here about who was or was not a franchise QB on other teams?

 

What it usually came down to, is different people had different ideas of what "franchise QB" meant, and for a sizeable proportion it meant "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it".

 

The relevant question for anyone wishing to debate this issue is "What exactly do you mean by #2 WR? How do you define that?  What traits does this #2 guy have?"

 

After that's defined, then we can have a discussion. 

 

Fact: from 2019 to 2021, the Bills #2 receiver in targets and in yards, was Cole Beasley, a slot.

 

 

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Not with that attitude.  He'll improve and five games it too small of a sample size.  It is interesting though that their worst game offensively production wise happened to be the one he missed.

I think they are on the right track with 12 personnel and more running game.  I'm optimistic that Kincaid will look like a great pick by the end of the year and between the running game and finding the TE's and RB's more short we'll be moving the chains better.  I think they are find with Davis doing what he does and they can easily get the production they need from other places.  They're still learning how to do that.  They have to walk before they can run but I think they'll get there.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Franchiseneedsme said:

I would.like to se Andy Isabella get a call up and some reps at WR2. He gets open 

 

Can he do the role of Beasley?  I think with someone doing that role well I think Gabe can handle WR role.

I noticed that Gabe is often on field when Diggs is off and he seems to be doing Kumerow's role blocking.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

#2 WR has become this decade's "Franchise QB".

 

Remember when we used to have heated debates here about who was or was not a franchise QB on other teams?

 

What it usually came down to, is different people had different ideas of what "franchise QB" meant, and for a sizeable proportion it meant "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it".

 

The relevant question for anyone wishing to debate this issue is "What exactly do you mean by #2 WR? How do you define that?  What traits does this #2 guy have?"

 

After that's defined, then we can have a discussion. 

 

Fact: from 2019 to 2021, the Bills #2 receiver in targets and in yards, was Cole Beasley, a slot.

 

 

From 2019 to 2021, Beasley was our WR2 IMO.

Edited October 19, 2023 by FireChans

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

26 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Do we love Chris Simms again, now that he agrees with what seems like a vast majority of the people posting here?

 

He's not wrong that the passing offense has looked far too reliant on Stefon Diggs

 

On the other hand....the Bills are a whopping 5 yards off from being a top-10 rushing team (currently 12th), WITHOUT as much contribution from Josh Allen's legs at this time (and most of his contribution did come in the first 3 games)

 

Right now, Mahomes has more rush attempts and more rush yards than Allen....they are right next to the Bills for rushing yards.  I will grant that they seem to be utilizing 2nd round rookie Rashee Rice more and relying on Kelce a bit less in the passing game.  But again, similar rush yards - Mahomes more rush yards than Allen - what does Chris Simms say about the Chiefs, are they too reliant on Mahomes?

 

AJ Brown has 60 targets and 672 yds, Devonta Smith 44 targets and 344 yards, while Hurts of course has 30% of the teams rush attempts and close to 30% of their rush yards....does that mean the Eagles are too reliant on Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown?

 

(for context, Diggs 66 receptions 620 yds, Davis 30 targets 341 yds)

I still don’t get ‘too reliant on diggs’ … he’s not forcing it into triple coverage all game to get him the ball…diggs is our best pass catcher and he’s pretty much always got a step on his defender and when a play breaks down he always helps out his qb..  our best receiver having what’s likely to be a career year that has been pretty much impossible to stop should be a positive.. 

 

gabe is certainly frustrating though lol