is two deep the blueprint on how to beat the Bills?

[boyst]

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

A throwback to Cook on this play would be something nice to see

Isn't Gilliam the FB? 

he is a FB/TE

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

it just  isn't happening right now. when he's the only target and he's being bracketed we need to have other options and we just aren't using them, or trusting them, or recognizing them. it's infuriating. 

i meant unintentional. was entirely distracted this morning. 

 

it's like all the information and influence that has been put upon him the last 2+ years has finally sank in and made this hybrid mutt of a player. i am, as i said, concerned that he will easily transition out of it to be take-over josh.

oh, i know. but it's like josh is just surrendering to these throws vs. find the holes. i have some hope after those TD's he threw last week - especially to Gilliam that his confidence is there and his trust in players is there - this is a big reason why i like Gilliam at TE. he has the best hands of our TE corps.

Don’t discount Kincaid and his hands.  He only dropped two catches in his college career and has 17 receptions on 19 targets so far in the NFL.  I know some are disappointed in Kincaid’s results so far, although his role and connection with Josh should only improve over time.

Edited October 18, 2023 by strive_for_five_guy

[boyst]

Just now, strive_for_five_guy said:

Don’t discount Kincaid and his hands.  He only dropped two catches in his college career and has 17 receptions on 19 targets so far in the NFL.  I know some are disappointed in Kincaid’s results so far, although his role and connection with Josh should only improve over time.

i don't judge rookies on their rookie year....well, i try not to.

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, colin said:

so, the nfl has almost entirely copied what mcd (and others, lets be honest) more or less pioneered, the disguise coverage deep safety very balanced 4-3 D.  that can be run more or less aggressively, but everyone is 4-3 nickel base now.

 

So ya, it makes sense they put this stuf fin to slow down mahomes and allen (and have done so, for the most part).  

 

to me our issue is the oc and allen together don't read things presnap to punish the d for being biased in their D.  we sort of try to beat all defenses w every play, but if the other team is playing advantage football taking one thing away, it should leave them soft vs something else and we don't do a good enough job of reading that and exploiting it.  

 

not having a zone buster like bease makes us hold the ball too long vs zone, josh not running doesn't punish man enough, and imo a big issue is our protections are simple and exploitable, so when there are long developing zone beater routes, we might get a stunt and overload on the spencer brown side, and then we have what we did vs jax.

 

it's all correctable, but do we have the coaching to do it?

 

This really isn’t any sort of surprise.  All of the talk last year was improving the run game and finding slot options with YAC to counter the 2 high looks.  

 

The offense has improved in these areas but not as much as everyone would like.   Certainly not enough to make teams pay.

 

I think the problem is partly on coaching…also on Josh to do a better job with making the right decision at the right time, and on the receivers to get into the right spots in the defense.  
 

It’s only week 6….theres still time 

[The Red King]

If only we drafted a TE that could provide mid-field relief for Josh.  Oh...wait...we did?  Okay, if we only had an OC that would actually use that TE in that role...

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

We should have more RAC ability in the skill positions, particularly the receiving core. Diggs is the only WR really effective in that area and we're too reliant on him as a result.

 

Um.... (click to embiggen)
 

 

It's notable that Shakir, Harty, Knox and Kincaid all have more YAC than YBC.  Sherfield is 4 yds off an even split.

 

Now a large part of that, of course, is how Diggs and Davis are used, but to say that Diggs "is the only WR really effective in that area" or to imply that's the reason we're reliant on him, is simply not correct.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Coldfronts said:

 

 

Yes, Cover2 is commonly used to take away the deep throws and keep everything underneath.

Yes, it has been effective against the Bills especially when the plays called try to push it deep, or when Josh tries to force it deep against good coverage of Diggs or Davis.

 

But this isn't novel, and it won't be consistent, just as the defensive coverage the Bills used to slow Miami isn't going to be consistent.  And it won't work if Dorsey and Josh pivot, and take what the defense offers them

 

It reminds me of a podcast Brett Kollman (The Film Room) did after the Bills-Dolphins game 3 where he revealed the KEY to slowing Josh Allen - kind of ignoring that the Bills put up 497 yds of offense in a heat-stroke game that saw one of their OTs playing snaps on a torn ACL because there was no one else left.  The Bills, of course, went on to be the #4 offense in the NFL and flame out in the Divisional round, either because they were emotionally drained and suffering 1 too many injuries, or because their HC and OC should be fired (your choice)

 

You got to remember that these guys are now "in it" to generate clicks and views, and you don't do that by being even handed and meticulous in your X's and O's knowledge.  That's why we get pieces from Kollman that...um....don't age as well as the single malt he touts, like "Mac Jones terrifies me".

 

3 hours ago, boyst said:

it just  isn't happening right now. when he's the only target and he's being bracketed we need to have other options and we just aren't using them, or trusting them, or recognizing them. it's infuriating.

 

Preach!

 

3 hours ago, boyst said:

oh, i know. but it's like josh is just surrendering to these throws vs. find the holes. i have some hope after those TD's he threw last week - especially to Gilliam that his confidence is there and his trust in players is there - this is a big reason why i like Gilliam at TE. he has the best hands of our TE corps.

 

I love me some Sledge, and I wish Gilliam would get a little more airplay, but I believe you mean Morris (and Gilliam has good hands for a FB/TE, but Morris is a converted WR and has the routes and the hands to prove it)

 

1 hour ago, boyst said:

i don't judge rookies on their rookie year....well, i try not to.

 

Bernard and Williams say "hi".  I mean, I own my receipts, I did it too with Bernard.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yes, Cover2 is commonly used to take away the deep throws and keep everything underneath.

Yes, it has been effective against the Bills especially when the plays called try to push it deep, or when Josh tries to force it deep against good coverage of Diggs or Davis.

 

But this isn't novel, and it won't be consistent, just as the defensive coverage the Bills used to slow Miami isn't going to be consistent.  And it won't work if Dorsey and Josh pivot, and take what the defense offers them

 

It reminds me of a podcast Brett Kollman (The Film Room) did after the Bills-Dolphins game 3 where he revealed the KEY to slowing Josh Allen - kind of ignoring that the Bills put up 497 yds of offense in a heat-stroke game that saw one of their OTs playing snaps on a torn ACL because there was no one else left.  The Bills, of course, went on to be the #4 offense in the NFL and flame out in the Divisional round, either because they were emotionally drained and suffering 1 too many injuries, or because their HC and OC should be fired (your choice)

 

You got to remember that these guys are now "in it" to generate clicks and views, and you don't do that by being even handed and meticulous in your X's and O's knowledge.  That's why we get pieces from Kollman that...um....don't age as well as the single malt he touts, like "Mac Jones terrifies me".

 

 

Preach!

 

 

I love me some Sledge, and I wish Gilliam would get a little more airplay, but I believe you mean Morris (and Gilliam has good hands for a FB/TE, but Morris is a converted WR and has the routes and the hands to prove it)

 

 

Bernard and Williams say "hi".  I mean, I own my receipts, I did it too with Bernard.

I have been somewhat held back on Williams. I just don't think he should be starting. I don't think he is a failure as a career. I just don't think he belongs on the field and it should have been obvious to coaches. 

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, boyst said:

I have been somewhat held back on Williams. I just don't think he should be starting. I don't think he is a failure as a career. I just don't think he belongs on the field and it should have been obvious to coaches. 

 

I guess I'm 'toting a bone' here, but you sounded pretty definitive on Williams already.  "We know his floor" "Lifetime Special Teamer" etc sure sounded like career pronouncements.

 

We'd obviously be better off and Williams would not be starting if Milano hadn't been injured, but I thought he shows massive improvement in his 2nd game vs. the Giants over getting thrown in vs. the Jags, which is promising - so I'm ready to wait and see.  I think he'll probably make a couple mistakes a game, but that may be better, overall, than Klein who would know exactly what his assignment is at all times and exactly where he ought to be, but won't physically be able to get there.

 

The main "Captain Obvious" takehome for me is that with all the injuries leading to playing lesser players at DT and starting young players or rookies, the offense better get its collective head out of its rear orifice, and quickly.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[dayman]

The answer is break tackles so they can’t let you get the short stuff. We do not break tackles. Never have. Maybe never will. Not sure why.

[78thealltimegreat]

Teams simply aren’t going to give the bills the deep shots anymore. We have to get used to boring football long winding drives. The only way out of that is guys who can break one after the catch maybe Harty as the season emerges  

[strive_for_five_guy]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:51 AM, boyst said:

i don't judge rookies on their rookie year....well, i try not to.

You like Kincaid’s hands yet? 😉 The kid can catch the ball, it’s one of his top traits and will be for a long time.

[boyst]

10 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

You like Kincaid’s hands yet? 😉 The kid can catch the ball, it’s one of his top traits and will be for a long time.

Catching is neat if you're jastr a wr.

 

The dude needs to develop a tinch more of the TE role.