If the Bills Don’t Make it to the AFCCG, Should McDermott Be Fired?

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love when people say something like this. The 2016 bills went seven and nine and were in the playoff hunt until week 16(ot loss to Miami and Rex resigning fired).  He took the 16th ranked offence to 29th and the defence  was pretty much the same.  Yep got some breaks and Andy Dalton got them into the playoffs.

 

Then came Allen.  

The team was different in 2017 than any of the "almost years" prior. And if you couldn't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. The all out effort and way the team played was better under McDermott than Rex Ryan. I would have put money on Rex not making the playoffs if he stayed in 2017 and if you would have, you would have lost big time 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Buffalo03

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Yes

[Chaos]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Get this thru your brain.

 

McDermott is NOT getting fired after this season for any reason. 

 

Him and Beane just got extensions. They are not going anywhere.

 

Words are important.  Each of them has a different meaning. For example, the original poster used the word "should".  Your post seems to be a furious reply to a different question. 

[HappyDays]

My concern with McDermott ever winning a Super Bowl, or even getting to one, is that he has a patten of making awful coaching decisions in high leverage moments.

 

13 seconds has been re-hashed to death but it was a huge coaching failure.

 

This year in our two losses there were critical coaching failures.

 

Against the Jets we had a dumb shotgun run on 2nd and 15 in OT, and then special teams fell apart on the punt. That is coaching malpractice. Maybe Dorsey called the 2nd and 15 run but ultimately those decisions fall on the head coach.

 

Against the Jags, he took Elam out of the game and his replacement Ingram missed a tackle on the game ending Etienne long TD run. What is he thinking taking a superior run stopping CB off the field in favor of a PS player off the bench, in a situation where we know the Jags are trying to run out the clock? His timeout management was also poor in the 2nd half and left us with zero margin for error at the end.

 

Against the Giants, yeah we scraped out a win, but my God the final two minutes was mismanaged to an extreme level. McDermott ran the only series of play calls that could have given the Giants a realistic chance of victory at the end, and if we're being honest his former OC's game plan was better than his own. No reason a game with such a wide talent gap should have come down to basically a coin flip at the end.

 

There are other examples of critical coaching failures in losses and barely scraped out wins that I can think of, but I won't write them all out here. Taking it all together though it paints a picture of a coach that falters in critical moments and those are the moments that win Super Bowls.

 

It's fun when we're beating teams 48-20 but that is not a path to the Super Bowl. We need to beat equally or slightly more talented teams 31-28 and I have yet to see any evidence that McDermott can do this even 50% of the time let alone in consecutive playoff games.

[CircleTheWagons99]

I said no but Doresy should be. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Words are important.  Each of them has a different meaning. For example, the original poster used the word "should".  Your post seems to be a furious reply to a different question. 

He has a point though.  It’s useless trying to have this debate because there’s not a remote chance of it happening.

 

It’s like starting a thread called “should the Bills trade Gabe Davis for Devante Adams?”

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I voted yes but only if they can get Ben Johnson… I want to see what Josh can do with an elite offensive minded head coach.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:38 AM, boater said:

These tired and worn out "Fire McD.. wasting Allen's best years" crusades never address the next more important question: And replace him with who? I especially love the arrogant statements along the lines of "Who wouldn't want to work with Josh Allen"

 

Name the new coach and why you think:

• he would be a step up from McD
• he will be available
• he'd be interested in the Bills
• his family would be willing to move to WNY (we've lost a couple there)
• he would work well with Beane
• Pegs would be willing to eat the remaining 4 years of McD's contract

I caution against naming any college coaches. Most want nothing to do with the NFL. The ones who try are often wash-outs.

lol coaches literally spend their whole careers trying to find a QB like Josh Allen. It’s definitely not arrogance, it’s facts . 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I voted yes but only if they can get Ben Johnson… I want to see what Josh can do with an elite offensive minded head coach.

Ben would have to deal with a massive pass blocking downgrade if he came here which gives me hesitation…these ‘genius’ offensive minds always happen to have tons of talent in the trenches coincidentally lol 

[Kirby Jackson]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. But it was a bad comparison.

Lol, no it wasn’t. It was spot on. You just missed the point originally. Different people are acceptable, to good, in different phases of a rebuild. If you’re a championship contender, you wouldn’t want Tyrod. To this point, you wouldn’t want McDermott either. Tyrod took a perennially bad team and made them okay. McDermott took a perennially bad team and made them perennially good. He hasn’t proven to be the guy to get them to their ceiling.
 

We aren’t at a point where Divisional Round losses are acceptable. He did the dirty work. McDermott took the team from the base of the mountain to 90% of the way to the summit. He deserves a ton of credit for it. If that’s as high as he can take them than someone else needs to finish the last 10%. He’s had enough chances to finish the job. Hopefully this is the year. 

13 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I believe the ceiling is a Superbowl and I do in fact believe McDermott can get us there. I am willing to give him a little bit longer. The only way, I believe it should even be remotely discussed that he gets fired, is if he is a one and done in the playoffs. The only way he should actually be fired, is if he misses the playoffs entirely. If he is a one and done. I give him one more shot, if he fails again, then we can move on

I think that Houston, KC, KC, and Cincy was enough for me. I didn’t need to see this year and I certainly wouldn’t need to see it again next year. 4 times (5 including this year) they’ve been good enough to go to the Super Bowl (including a season where they were the favorites). They’ve fallen short each time. If they don’t go again this year, I don’t need to see a 6th bite at the apple. 

[NoSaint]

14 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Let me ask it differently. What do you think the ceiling is/has been? If you think 1 championship game appearance is it, then you should be satisfied.
 

I’m not at a point where I’m worried about “it could be worse.” That’s where I was with Tyrod and that’s because the team was bad for a generation. I was of the belief that the high floor was good at that time. Now, it is not acceptable to me to get bounced in the Divisional Round. I believe that this team is/has been Super Bowl Caliber. He isn’t getting his team where they belong. You don’t get “Josh Allen’s” very often. You better take advantage of his prime.

 

Another example that I think works is Dwayne Casey. He won the Coach of the Year and was fired that offseason!! His team won the title the next year. Don’t settle for “it could be worse” while you have Josh Allen in his prime.

yea, I’ll risk a step back to try to take a step forward here. I don’t care if we turn into a wild card loser instead of a divisional loser if it’s taking a swing at being a Super Bowl winner. 
 

I hope McDermott proves me wrong but that he couldn’t get it done in easier windows makes me skeptical about finishing the job with less margin of error 

[Bill from NYC]

On 10/18/2023 at 4:46 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't been in that war room but I have spoken to two separate people who have been in that building and have been in those rooms and have heard those conversations. Brandon Beane runs personnel. Of course he has input from Sean because they are basically joined at the hip. But the idea he is a puppet GM just picking who McDermott tells him to is just wrong. That is not how the building is run. 

Do you think that Beane could override McDermott on a draft day decision? If not, what you are describing is NOT equality.

 

Of course many people have input but I doubt that there is or ever has been one team in NFL history where there wasn't one person who ultimately wielded the most power in the organization. It isn't possible imo. For instance, if the 2 men disagee on a first round trade/selection and cannot come to a mutual agreement, what do you think happens? Do they toss a coin? Will they simply skip the pick?  This is not the same as buying groceries with my wife at the supermarket, and even there; she would make the decision.  

 

I cannot understand your reluctance to what is simply how life (and certainly business) works. 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yea, I’ll risk a step back to try to take a step forward here. I don’t care if we turn into a wild card loser instead of a divisional loser if it’s taking a swing at being a Super Bowl winner. 
 

I hope McDermott proves me wrong but that he couldn’t get it done in easier windows makes me skeptical about finishing the job with less margin of error 

 

Also, it's in how we lose in the playoffs.

 

Giving the game away (13 Seconds), showing up unprepared, having the #1/2 defense during the regular season but playing like a bottom tier D in the playoffs, major inconsistencies on offense, these are not indications that a coach needs a few more seasons.  

 

It was the same in the 90s, Levy held us back at that level.  If Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs had been our coach, we'd have our Lombardi by now.  

 

SMH, I still recall the last Super Bowl, we were up 13-6 at the half.  The field reporter related the info that Johnson was in the locker room throwing chairs and swearing up a storm, and that Levy was reading Hemingway quotes.  Whatever happened, 24-0 Dallas in the second half.  

 

 

[McBean]

He should be fired if he doesn’t make it to the Super Bowl imo.

 

We are wasting the best QB in franchise history on a defensive minded clown who claps 24/7 and makes horrible in game decisions.

 

Also, he cost this city a Super Bowl with 13 seconds. Should’ve been fired on the tarmac.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think that Beane could override McDermott on a draft day decision? If not, what you are describing is NOT equality.

 

Of course many people have input but I doubt that there is or ever has been one team in NFL history where there wasn't one person who ultimately wielded the most power in the organization. It isn't possible imo. For instance, if the 2 men disagee on a first round trade/selection and cannot come to a mutual agreement, what do you think happens? Do they toss a coin? Will they simply skip the pick?  This is not the same as buying groceries with my wife at the supermarket, and even there; she would make the decision.  

 

I cannot understand your reluctance to what is simply how life (and certainly business) works. 

 

McDermott weilds the most power in the organisation. Do I believe he can ultimately put his foot down and veto a selection by Brandon Beane? Yes. But talking to people who have been in that room and have seen those conversations it doesn't happen that way. Brandon Beane runs the draft process. He takes views from the entire scouting department in the first instance. Then they get input from the coaching staff. Then when they are narrowing down to final decisions Beane takes advice from his two senior lieutenants - originally Schoen and Gaine; then Schoen and Morgan; now Gaine and Gray - and from McDermott. Then Brandon sets the board and Brandon runs the draft. This isn't opinion, this is verified information. Two sources. One still with the team, one formerly with the team. Both describe it almost identically.

 

You seem to think that because McDermott has the most power it must mean he is using it constantly and running the draft. He isn't. The picks (since 2018) are Brandon Beane's for good or ill. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, McBean said:

He should be fired if he doesn’t make it to the Super Bowl imo.

 

We are wasting the best QB in franchise history on a defensive minded clown who claps 24/7 and makes horrible in game decisions.

 

Also, he cost this city a Super Bowl with 13 seconds. Should’ve been fired on the tarmac.

 

If he takes the team into the playoffs and loses, but plays our best game, coaching included, and is simply beaten by a better team that outplayed us all things being equal otherwise, that's one thing.  Granted, it would be a first.  

 

But if we produce another stinker like the Cincy game, get out-coached, allow an inferior team to beat us because we didn't bring our best, or the team showed up unprepared, then that's another.  

 

In the case if the latter it should take care of itself.  These discussions both here and in the media would become a lot more lopsided.  

 

Right now it already appears that we were off to another fast start and have already slowed down after expending a lot of emotional capital on our first four games.  

 

Floyd for example is on pace for 18 sacks.  What fool thinks that that's really going to happen.  

 

I'm thinking that 10-7 and a wild-card spot would actually help us come playoff time, not be a detriment.  

 

Let's see how things play out and see where things stand when the music stops.  Who knows, maybe it'll be 7 a.m. and the party downtown just ended.  😎

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott weilds the most power in the organisation. Do I believe he can ultimately put his foot down and veto a selection by Brandon Beane? Yes. But talking to people who have been in that room and have seen those conversations it doesn't happen that way. Brandon Beane runs the draft process. He takes views from the entire scouting department in the first instance. Then they get input from the coaching staff. Then when they are narrowing down to final decisions Beane takes advice from his two senior lieutenants - originally Schoen and Gaine; then Schoen and Morgan; now Gaine and Gray - and from McDermott. Then Brandon sets the board and Brandon runs the draft. This isn't opinion, this is verified information. Two sources. One still with the team, one formerly with the team. Both describe it almost identically.

 

You seem to think that because McDermott has the most power it must mean he is using it constantly and running the draft. He isn't. The picks (since 2018) are Brandon Beane's for good or ill. 

 

So given all that, and keeping in mind that even those relating that info to you are going to have their biases, but that aside, how do you reconcile the enormous gap between Kincaid's obvious capabilities, and his lack of proper use, which has led to massive underachievement by him, and mid-late day-3 performance on pace for 334 yards, 0 TDS, and notable less than one 1st-down per game? 

 

If he were on Jax, Cincy, KC, Philly or perhaps a handful of other teams, how do you think he'd be doing?  ... Generally speaking contrasted with here.  

 

I'll add some more context;

 

In Davis' rookie year, he logged 35 catches, 599 yards, 7 TDs, and 20 1st-Downs, as a 4th-round selection that didn't have Kincaid's route-running ability, hands, etc.  

 

I didn't use Davis to try to bolster Davis, the opposite actually.  

 

But that is definitely an enigma of sorts. 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott weilds the most power in the organisation. Do I believe he can ultimately put his foot down and veto a selection by Brandon Beane? Yes. But talking to people who have been in that room and have seen those conversations it doesn't happen that way. Brandon Beane runs the draft process. He takes views from the entire scouting department in the first instance. Then they get input from the coaching staff. Then when they are narrowing down to final decisions Beane takes advice from his two senior lieutenants - originally Schoen and Gaine; then Schoen and Morgan; now Gaine and Gray - and from McDermott. Then Brandon sets the board and Brandon runs the draft. This isn't opinion, this is verified information. Two sources. One still with the team, one formerly with the team. Both describe it almost identically.

 

You seem to think that because McDermott has the most power it must mean he is using it constantly and running the draft. He isn't. The picks (since 2018) are Brandon Beane's for good or ill. 

I agree with the top sentence 100!!! However, the last sentence woluld seem to contradict the first. Think about it GB. Are you sure that McDermott has never overridden Beane since 2018, especially given the focus on defense? 

McDermott's fingerprints would appear to be all over those defensive picks, or so it would clearly seem.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So given all that, and keeping in mind that even those relating that info to you are going to have their biases, but that aside, how do you reconcile the enormous gap between Kincaid's obvious capabilities, and his lack of proper use, which has led to massive underachievement by him, and mid-late day-3 performance on pace for 334 yards, 0 TDS, and notable less than one 1st-down per game? 

 

If he were on Jax, Cincy, KC, Philly or perhaps a handful of other teams, how do you think he'd be doing?  ... Generally speaking contrasted with here.  

 

I'll add some more context;

 

In Davis' rookie year, he logged 35 catches, 599 yards, 7 TDs, and 20 1st-Downs, as a 4th-round selection that didn't have Kincaid's route-running ability, hands, etc.  

 

I didn't use Davis to try to bolster Davis, the opposite actually.  

 

But that is definitely an enigma of sorts. 

 

 

 

I don't need to reconcile anything. There is nothing inconsistent between saying Brandon Beane runs the draft and Kincaid hasn't yet seen significant usage by the coaches.

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

I agree with the top sentence 100!!! However, the last sentence woluld seem to contradict the first. Think about it GB. Are you sure that McDermott has never overridden Beane since 2018, especially given the focus on defense? 

McDermott's fingerprints would appear to be all over those defensive picks, or so it would clearly seem.

 

There is no contradiction. Am I sure it has never happened? No I am not, I can't be. But I have spoken to people who have seen those conversations and that is not the way it operates. If it has happened then that happening is exceptional. Whereas because they have picked defensive players you are convinced McDermott is running the draft. He isn't. The process is as I set out per people who have been in those draft meetings.

[Chaos]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't need to reconcile anything. There is nothing inconsistent between saying Brandon Beane runs the draft and Kincaid hasn't yet seen significant usage by the coaches.

 

There is no contradiction. Am I sure it has never happened? No I am not, I can't be. But I have spoken to people who have seen those conversations and that is not the way it operates. If it has happened then that happening is exceptional. Whereas because they have picked defensive players you are convinced McDermott is running the draft. He isn't. The process is as I set out per people who have been in those draft meetings.

It is unlikely others in the room are privy to McDermotts and Beanes private conversations. They could be reporting 100% accurately what the see. But what they see is very unlikely the whole picture.