OLINE/QB UNFORCED ERROR REVIEW - ALL 22 - WEEK 6 GIANTS

[Bocephuz]

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 3

MORSE - 1

TORRENCE - 1

BROWN - 4

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion mainly held up in pass pro.. however one of the pressures he surrendered indirectly led to Allen getting hit and hurting his shoulder

- MCGOVERN - This is the first week McGovern clearly struggled. He misread a stunt and was beaten cleanly by #93 several times. 

- MORSE - Not a clean sheet.. he misread a late developing stunt in q4.. but other than that another fine day for Mitch. 

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. Only surrendered 1 pressure to my eye. 

- BROWN  - Brown showed a glimmer of hope last week.. but that glimmer was snuffed out against the Giants. He regressed back to the mean .. surrendering 4 pressures against the G Men and commiting a bad false start penalty

- DORSEY -  To my eye Dorseyused TEs to chip twice and actually used Gabe Davis on a wham block once. It appeared the strategy this week was to get the TEs out in patterns for quick blitz beater throws rather than keep them in to chip. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The Giants were able to beat the Bills O line in multiple ways. Both #93 and #5 were able to win one on one against their Bills O LIne counterparts.  DC Martindale blitzed frequently.. and was particularly successful sending delayed stunt blitzes. Dawkins, McGovern and Morse were all caught off guard by delayed twist stunts where the DE or OLB hid out and then snuck in to pressure qb up the gap in the middle. #58 for Giants was a spy on Allen and was very effective .. had a pass tip and also a hit on Allen. Not the best day for the OLine but Martindale really did throw the kitchen sink at them. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 4 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - UE1 - Josh throws out route too early before Diggs starts his break..Diggs turns around but ball is already on him and its incomplete

 

q1 - UE2 - Josh overthrows Davis on a deep crosser. 

 

q1 -UE 3 - Josh has time .. has Shakir open to his right but locks on Diggs too long (who isn't open). Pocket collapses and 17 throws dirt ball to Diggs general direction. 

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush of #99

 

q1 - McGovern and Dawkins do not recognize twist stunt .. pocket collapses resulting in incompletion

 

q1 -  UE4- Allen bails clean pocket early and drifts to the right.. incomplete

 

q2 -Brown beaten by speed rush of #5.. forcing incompletion

 

q2 - McGovern beaten by 97.. flushes Allen and Allen takes a hit

 

q2 - Brown false start

 

q2: Dawkins beat to the inside by #5 flushing Allen to his right.. end result Allen is hit hard and hurts his shoulder

 

q2: Gabe Davis stays in to wham block 

 

q2 - INT - 97 beats Torrence cleanly altering Allen's throw .. which is intercepted. 

 

q3 - Brown beaten again speed rush #5... flushes Allen but Allen gets small gain scrambling. 

 

q3 - Morse misses delayed twist stunt giving up pressure on Allen

 

q3 - Cook whiffs on pass block against LB 41.. Allen miracuously escapes and makes completion to Diggs

 

q4- McGovern beaten by #93

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Allen had a poor first half.. in particular .. a poor first few series. In my opinion he was a little to anxious to show he could get the ball out on time knowing Daboll was on the other sideline ..causing a few poor uncharacteristic unforced errors on his part. The first UE to Diggs was Allen being impatient and getting ball out to early before Diggs was in his break. He also overthrew an open Davis onthe next throw ( even though Davis tripped.. ball was still too high). Allen settled down in the second half and succeeded in spite of his O Line. In general.. Allen had a few reps where he bailed out of clean pockets early.. but for the most part he got the ball out quickly to counter the blitzing. . Brown regressed back to his old self.. being consistently beat on speed outside rushes and throwing in a false start for good measure. McGovern had a tough game as well. Cook had a very strong start to the year with good blitz pickups.. but he has now had several weeks in a row where he's whiffed on pass protect blocks. I expect to see more of Murray on pass downs if the trend continues. At the end of the day #17 successfully improvised on a few big plays ( TD to Morris.. first down to Diggs after miracle escape) to pull it out. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Bocephuz

[Simon]

Thanks again for doing this.

And thanks for confirming my suspicion that McGovern had, by far, his worst game as a Bill.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Thanks for doing this! 
 

Seems the offense is just sloppy, would that be a good term?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Thanks for doing this! 
 

Seems the offense is just sloppy, would that be a good term?

Giants defense was nearly flawless imo…they were able to disguise coverages long enough to get pass rushers home pretty much all night and their stunts were massively effective.  I know it’s the ‘giants’ but that was probably the best opponent defensive performance we’ve seen all year 

 

couldn’t even help those OL out much…cook forgot how to pass block also 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Bocephuz]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

Thanks again for doing this.

And thanks for confirming my suspicion that McGovern had, by far, his worst game as a Bill.

sure thing.. your suspicion was well founded. Hopefully just a one game aberation as he was excellent in all previous games 

5 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Thanks for doing this! 
 

Seems the offense is just sloppy, would that be a good term?

sloppy would be good term

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Giants defense was nearly flawless imo…they were able to disguise coverages long enough to get pass rushers home pretty much all night and their stunts were massively effective.  I know it’s the ‘giants’ but that was probably the best opponent defensive performance we’ve seen all year 

Not a coincidence it came from the guy who laid the foundation and framework of what the offense currently is. Dorsey added a few additions, but the majority of it is the house that DaBoll built. I think Dabs knew how to play Dorsey and Allen because he knows them so unbelievable well. 
 

McDermott also just happened to know how to play DaBoll. I hope Giants figure it out and have a competitive team, because this rivalry could be a treat. 

[Scott7975]

I had so much hope for this oline after their fairly good start.  Outside of Brown. They seem to be getting worse as the weeks go on. A weakness was spotted with the stunts and other teams are replicating it but our line isn't getting better at it.  It also doesn't help that Josh doesn't run anymore. That threat made D's play different. The run game that we have, while better, still isn't good enough to strike fear.

[Rubes]

I wasn't watching very closely at the time, but after the fracas with multiple personal fouls I noticed Brown came out of the game. Was that due to injury? Was he benched? Did he come back in the game later?

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Not a coincidence it came from the guy who laid the foundation and framework of what the offense currently is. Dorsey added a few additions, but the majority of it is the house that DaBoll built. I think Dabs knew how to play Dorsey and Allen because he knows them so unbelievable well. 
 

McDermott also just happened to know how to play DaBoll. I hope Giants figure it out and have a competitive team, because this rivalry could be a treat. 

I wonder if things might’ve gone differently if Kincaid was healthy…the whole 12 personnel is a bit of a new wrinkle. 
 

this game legitimately scared me all week lol bill belichicks ex coaches always gave him a relative amount of trouble and they were never any good against anyone else.  

part of me feels bad for Daboll that would’ve been a huge win and their schedule gets softer in the second half.  I don’t think things are looking good for him long term in ny as it stands.  The Daniel jones contract has an out but it’s still a bit of a head scratcher 

 

[Mango]

45 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

 

 

q2: Dawkins beat to the inside by #5 flushing Allen to his right.. end result Allen is hit hard and hurts his shoulder

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Allen had a poor first half.. in particular .. a poor first few series. In my opinion he was a little to anxious to show he could get the ball out on time knowing Daboll was on the other sideline ..causing a few poor uncharacteristic unforced errors on his part. The first UE to Diggs was Allen being impatient and getting ball out to early before Diggs was in his break. He also overthrew an open Davis onthe next throw ( even though Davis tripped.. ball was still too high). Allen settled down in the second half and succeeded in spite of his O Line. In general.. Allen had a few reps where he bailed out of clean pockets early.. but for the most part he got the ball out quickly to counter the blitzing. . Brown regressed back to his old self.. being consistently beat on speed outside rushes and throwing in a false start for good measure. McGovern had a tough game as well. Cook had a very strong start to the year with good blitz pickups.. but he has now had several weeks in a row where he's whiffed on pass protect blocks. I expect to see more of Murray on pass downs if the trend continues. At the end of the day #17 successfully improvised on a few big plays ( TD to Morris.. first down to Diggs after miracle escape) to pull it out. 

 

Thank you for this. Always appreciated. I just watched the A-22 today and have some scribbles I was going to post on the PG Thread and never got around to. I think your summary is pretty accurate. 

 

The Dawkins play in Q2 feels like a good synopsis for our entire passing game on Sunday. Dawkins gets beat, so lets get that out of the way. There is no debating that. But to me today it looks like Dawkins is committed to leverage Thibodeaux up and around Allen. But Allen takes a big step up, and Thibodeaux easily disengages. Dawkins certainly gets beat there, but part of the problem is the LT and QB don't have a good feel for what the other is going to do either. 

 

I thought the first two drives had some "unfortunate moments" but those moments started to pile on around the 3rd or 4th drives. Just mental gaffes everywhere.  I think they started to pile on top of each other right around the 3rd or 4th drive. If it wasn't Josh it was a lineman. If it wasn't a lineman it was a WR. Even Diggs got in on it with that crazy unfocused Offside. Then a play or two later went to him on a screen, where he had another blocker engaged outside of Shakir(?) and he cut inside right and go nothing on it. 

Worth noting that Josh was better in the second half but we only had three possessions compared to 6 in the first.

 

I really think these guys thought they were gonna go off and have a crazy Madden on rookie type of performance, and when it wasn't happening started gripping way too tight, got super sloppy, and started playing as individuals rather than a unit. These types of games drive me nuts. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I wonder if things might’ve gone differently if Kincaid was healthy…the whole 12 personnel is a bit of a new wrinkle. 
 

this game legitimately scared me all week lol bill belichicks ex coaches always gave him a relative amount of trouble and they were never any good against anyone else.  

part of me feels bad for Daboll that would’ve been a huge win and their schedule gets softer in the second half.  I don’t think things are looking good for him long term in ny as it stands.  The Daniel jones contract has an out but it’s still a bit of a head scratcher 

 

Not to mindless bash the OC, but I feel we haven’t really figured out how to use the 12-person yet. Our TE’s are just running 2 yard routes. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Rubes said:

I wasn't watching very closely at the time, but after the fracas with multiple personal fouls I noticed Brown came out of the game. Was that due to injury? Was he benched? Did he come back in the game later?

 

 

Yeah, he came back in.

But I think he also went out again later in the game for a few plays and then came back in again.

I'm guessing he tweaked something during the scrum that kept messing with him but that's only a guess.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I had so much hope for this oline after their fairly good start.  Outside of Brown. They seem to be getting worse as the weeks go on. A weakness was spotted with the stunts and other teams are replicating it but our line isn't getting better at it.  It also doesn't help that Josh doesn't run anymore. That threat made D's play different. The run game that we have, while better, still isn't good enough to strike fear.

Teams are still very mindful of josh running which is part of why he’s not doing it.  The giants spied him pretty much all game.  I think they’re trying to get away from designed qb runs since were running the ball fairly well this season. I didn’t watch the presser but it seems like he said some things in frustration imo…a few teams have done some excellent jobs taking his rushing lanes away this year 

 

mcgovern’s bad game really sunk things…the giants dline is actually massively under the radar because people just assume they’re bad at everything.  Dexter Lawrence is an absolute beast and Leonard Williams is good…okereke was playing possessed it reminded me of Bernard’s huge game a few weeks ago.  I do think a good percentage of what the giants were able to do was predicated on Daboll knowing his ex team very well though 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

Just mental gaffes everywhere.  I think they started to pile on top of each other right around the 3rd or 4th drive. If it wasn't Josh it was a lineman. If it wasn't a lineman it was a WR.

 

No doubt.

The self-inflicted wounds were absolutely out of control there for a much of the first half and had a real effect on the scoreboard, imo.

[Beast]

21 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Thanks for doing this! 
 

Seems the offense is just sloppy, would that be a good term?

I think that sums it up. Sloppy.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

No doubt.

The self-inflicted wounds were absolutely out of control there for a much of the first half and had a real effect on the scoreboard, imo.

This team only seems to make plays under massive amounts of duress it is the oddest thing…it’s the football equivalent of missing only layups lol 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

No doubt.

The self-inflicted wounds were absolutely out of control there for a much of the first half and had a real effect on the scoreboard, imo.

 

I watched the game out at a bar, which I hate. So I was really looking forward to sitting down with this one. It was very odd. 

This wasn't as "easy" to watch as the Jets game where so much of it was like "OK Josh calm down". There were moments where Josh is looking right at an open Murray on first and 10. Then just tries to split three defenders to Knox where it gets tipped and picked. What a dumb decision. But then there are other moments where Diggs is just sprinting from the LOS, or not following his blockers. Or Josh is scrambling and I am was begging a wide open Sherfield to turn around to help him out. 

Brutal. 

 

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This team only seems to make plays under massive amounts of duress it is the oddest thing…it’s the football equivalent of missing only layups lol 

 

This offense has never ever looked easy. At least not for stretches. Yes there are games where they are prolific, but so often it just feels like we get by converting 3rds and forever over and over again. We convert them more often than most teams and that is a crazy advantage. But you can't convert them all the time. Low percentage plays are still low percentage even if you are good at them. 

A lot of missed opportunities out there to make that game easier. That goes for the QB, WR, and OL. 

[Mango]

 

20 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Not to mindless bash the OC, but I feel we haven’t really figured out how to use the 12-person yet. Our TE’s are just running 2 yard routes. 

 

I didn't collect any data on yards per route, but after watching the A22 that was not the case. There were plays to be made to Knox that weren't seen. He was in to chip/block quite a bit, don't get me wrong, but definitely ran some routes with depth. That INT on 1/10 is a good example. But that ball never should have been thrown there with Murray wide open underneath. 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

I didn't collect any data on yards per route, but after watching the A22 that was not the case. There were plays to be made to Knox that weren't seen. He was in to chip/block quite a bit, don't get me wrong, but definitely ran some routes with depth. That INT on 1/10 is a good example. But that ball never should have been thrown there with Murray wide open underneath. 

 

I’ve seen some Data from Pro Football Reference where, other than 1 game, the average depth on a reception is less than 3 yards, I’ll see if I can post the link. I could also be misinterpreting these stats as there are plenty of variables.

[billsfan89]

31 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I had so much hope for this oline after their fairly good start.  Outside of Brown. They seem to be getting worse as the weeks go on. A weakness was spotted with the stunts and other teams are replicating it but our line isn't getting better at it.  It also doesn't help that Josh doesn't run anymore. That threat made D's play different. The run game that we have, while better, still isn't good enough to strike fear.

 

Gotta remember that 2 out of 5 offensive line players are new additions and one is a rookie. They also played two good defensive lines in recent weeks. The Giants DT combo is a better one in the league Thibodeaux is talented off the edge and the Jags have a good D-line and they had the whole London advantage fiasco. 

 

I think that the offensive line is still playing well all things considered. I can say that I do not feel that the offensive struggles in the past two weeks are that much on the offensive line esp in the Giants game. I think I felt like the offensive line dominated the ground game against the Giants (running right at their strength at DT and MLB none less) and gave Josh enough protection to be successful it was just the missed field goal and the two turnovers that sputtered the offense to score nothing (the Gabe fumble being the really egregious error as the Josh pick was the result of a very strong defensive play). 

 

I will say that the offensive line did share a good share of the blame against the Jags as I do think the Jags were able to generate pressure with their front four at a far too consistent rate. But once that whole game was just not a great example of the team's talents due to various factors. I feel like with more experience Mitch and the new guards will only get better at communication which will only help them at picking up stunts. Better to work out the kinks in October and November. 

 

TLDR: The offensive line is still 40% new players including a rookie and they still did a solid job against the Giants as the Giants were gashed completely in the ground game and had to stunt constantly to get pressure. The line will improve their communication with more time together and film study.