In retrospect, was letting McKenzie go a mistake?

[Chugga]

Add Harty to the list.  Harty, Hines, Sherfield, Crowder, Kincaid.  Signings or draft picks that were brought in for a specific reason then go on to get almost zero usage.  I used to get excited at a speedy or gadget signing but none of those guys have been worked into the gameplan.  Harty is just 2022’s Nyheim Hines.

[Maine-iac]

At least Harty can field punts.  McKenzie had hands of stone.  Whether it's Dorsey or Allen we haven't had a short ball control passing game since Beasley left.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, ChicagoRic said:

6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash?

 

For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. 

 

As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it.

 

Discuss.

 

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=McKeIs00&year_min=2023&player_id1=HarrDe07&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=HarrDe07

 

In theory, Harty should be able to run a fuller route tree and track the ball deep.

 

In practice, that's not at all how he's being used

 

Sometimes I feel like Beane stocks the offensive pantry with guys who should be able to do all these cool things and our offensive coaching just shrugs.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

At least Harty can field punts.  McKenzie had hands of stone.  Whether it's Dorsey or Allen we haven't had a short ball control passing game since Beasley left.

 

And yet for the Colts, McKenzie is doing Just That Thing

 

 

33 minutes ago, Chugga said:

Add Harty to the list.  Harty, Hines, Sherfield, Crowder, Kincaid.  Signings or draft picks that were brought in for a specific reason then go on to get almost zero usage.  I used to get excited at a speedy or gadget signing but none of those guys have been worked into the gameplan.  Harty is just 2022’s Nyheim Hines.

 

I'm afraid you may have a point here.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Beck Water

[Dr.Sack]

Harty is good. Shurfield is good too. Use them. Spread it around, design them some more plays. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

No. 

The issue is that the guy we got to replace McKenzie isn't being used to his full potential.

Ken Dorsey has been using Deonte Harty poorly.

He is using Harty solely as a gadget/motion/swing pass guy, similarly to how McKenzie was often used here. In point of fact, Harty ought to be used as a deep threat, to stretch defenses and open up space underneath for Diggs and Knox and Kincaid to do work in the middle of the field.

It is frankly baffling that we're a third of the way through the season and have only seen one deep pass from Josh Allen to Deonte Harty. It should be a regular occurrence. Harty's speed and separation ability plus Allen's arm -- when so much defensive attention is being paid elsewhere, theoretically leaving Harty in advantageous matchups -- should equal frequent big plays.

Letting McKenzie go was fine. Misusing/underusing the guy that replaced him is the mistake.

 

This.

[Matt_In_NH]

The volume is not there but Harty is an upgrade.  

[DrDawkinstein]

No.

[Saxum]

1 minute ago, Chugga said:

Add Harty to the list.  Harty, Hines, Sherfield, Crowder, Kincaid.  Signings or draft picks that were brought in for a specific reason then go on to get almost zero usage.  I used to get excited at a speedy or gadget signing but none of those guys have been worked into the gameplan.  Harty is just 2022’s Nyheim Hines.

 

Exactly but hopefully if Hines had been not hurt during offseason  Harty would have done a different role/

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, ChicagoRic said:

6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash?

 

For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. 

 

As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it.

 

Discuss.

Dirty is a FA, they could bring him back if needed. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Through 6 games harty is a huge bust totaling 103 yards or 17 yards a game at a 9.5 million dollar salary.

 

You read that right, harty is averaging 17 yards a game at 4.5 million this year !

 

We should have kept Lil Dirty !

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash?

 

For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. 

 

As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it.

 

Discuss.

 

The biggest problem with this offense so far this season isn't the slot position.  It's Dorsey.  Harty is fine.  

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Dirty is a FA, they could bring him back if needed. 

 

Still listed on the Colts roster, so No.

[thenorthremembers]

Mckenzie sealed his fate by running off at the mouth about the coaching staff.  He was way too loose lipped for a guy who could be so easily replaced.

 

Currently has 5 catchers for 39 yards to Hartys 12/103.   Harty isn't being used the same way Lil Dirty was but I wouldn't say he isn't as good.

 

Neither guy is someone the Bills wouldn't be able to replace.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

The biggest problem with this offense so far this season isn't the slot position.  It's Dorsey.  Harty is fine.  

 

Harty may be fine, Harty may not be fine, but we don't know because he's seeing a whopping 21% of the snaps thus far this season - 16% vs. the Giants.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

The only mistake was not letting him go sooner.  Harty might not be it but lil dirty certainly wasn't either.

At least Harty seems to have decent hands and has gotten a couple clutch 1st downs. He's not going to return kicks/ punts like Hines.  It's somewhere between a wash with edge to Harty.  We gotta increase wheel/fly route type of plays for him.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

It's a wash imo.  Kind of figured it would be that way.  We really need to try to upgrade WR, year 2 of not doing so

or put Kincaid inthe slot and give Shakir the opportunity to work with Allen.

[Saxum]

McKenzie was an excellent special player but poor regular player.   Each game plan had to be tailored for his skill set.  

He made plays hard for defenses to account for.

One of the most important roles he played was when he emulated mobile QBs like Jackson - defenses got true preparation.

McKenzie's ego however was larger than his ability to work on his weaknesses.

One thing about him he never cost teams as much in cap than some of the players brought to Bills on potential.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Mckenzie sealed his fate by running off at the mouth about the coaching staff.  He was way too loose lipped for a guy who could be so easily replaced.

 

Currently has 5 catchers for 39 yards to Hartys 12/103.   Harty isn't being used the same way Lil Dirty was but I wouldn't say he isn't as good.

 

Neither guy is someone the Bills wouldn't be able to replace.

 

The problem I have with Harty is how much we're paying him compared to how much we're using him.  $3.745M cap this year, $5.365 next year.

He's on track for a 34 reception, 300 yd, 3 TD, 17 1D season playing 21% of the snaps.

 

The oft-maligned McKenzie put up 42 receptions, 423 yds, 30 1D and 5 TD for just a fraction over vet minimum last season.  Harty is being more efficient per-snap since McKenzie saw 54% of the offensive snaps to put up that production, but it's kind of strange to me that we're paying like 3x as much to a guy we use less than half as much.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Still listed on the Colts roster, so No.

My bad, I thought he was released! 

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash?

 

For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. 

 

As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it.

 

Discuss.

I think that 6 games into the season is way too early to make a definitive statement on Hardy.  The touchdown last night and the long pass he caught versus Jacksonville shows that he can make plays and just needs to be given opportunities.  I’m not sure he’s had that in Buffalo.

 

The difference is that McKenzie had many opportunities to show what he can do.  He flourished as a “gadget” receiver but showed that he wasn’t strong enough to be a full time slot WR.  
 

So I think Hardy is capable of doing more…he just hasn’t been target much.