Anyone else think that JP Losman should...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

It's nice to see many fans come to their senses after hearing the rants last year that playing was the ONLY way JP could develop..

 

While it is true and absurdly logical that he MUST play eventually to develop, it is dumb that some failed to recognize that playing was not the only thing he had to do develop and master the NFL game.

 

I will not be shocked at all if when the smoke clears IF JP is successful that he actually gives a lot of credit to his being forced to take time off from playing due to his injury last year as an important part of his development.

 

I hope like heck that he used a good chunk of his forced downtime last year to sit in the booth with his ear sewed to Sam Wyche's mouth to have a singular and unique opportunity to have a former NFL HC who was an offensive guru download his knowledge to JP.

 

There is no replacement for seeing the game over the center's back and leading me. However, he will do a much better job understaning what he is seeing and can easily catch-up as a leader if he use the downtime to complete the education he began but did not complete running for his life behind Tulane's porous line.

 

Due to the injury, the mop-up appearances in 3 games where he showed consistent improvement last year, and an off-season where wth the early Bledsoe cut he and and everyone else knew what he needed to do, he seems well positioned to make good.

[eball]

i still believe that most fans, analysts, and media members fail to account for the single most important factor at hand -- "rookie" QBs are generally playing for below average teams. you can't expect a rookie QB to make chicken salad out of chicken stojan. good or great teams get to be good or great because they have at least competent QB play. they aren't the sort of teams who are turning over the QB reins to a rookie unless injury dictates (a la 2004 steelers).

 

the bills of 2005 are an anomaly, not unlike last year's steelers. they are a team that was already on the verge of "good-ness" last season, and rather than stick w/ the "proven" vet they chose to make the QB switch. they have top-5 quality defense and ST units. this is not a rebuilding situation.

 

quite frankly, i will be very surprised if losman doesn't play reasonably well. he has been set up to succeed. 95% of rookie QBs who are forced to start are set up to struggle, because they do not have complete teams around them. the fact that losman is establishing a local presence will only help him. the bills aren't throwing this guy to the wolves; to the contrary, they are handing him the keys to a pretty nice looking automobile with a lot of extra safety features built in.

[eball]

sorry, i'm going to bump my last post. does no one have anything to say in this respect? am i completely off base?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

sorry, i'm going to bump my last post.  does no one have anything to say in this respect?  am i completely off base?

352654[/snapback]

 

I agree with you. The Bills are far from a poor team, which is where young guys usually go.

[Bill from NYC]

sorry, i'm going to bump my last post.  does no one have anything to say in this respect?  am i completely off base?

352654[/snapback]

 

Off base? We shall see, but it is clearly wishful thinking.

I dont blame you one iota for remaining positive. I wish I could do more of the same, but the truth remains that JP has not proven a thing on the field. Nothing.

 

There were other teams that needed more offensive production from their qb during the 04 draft. JP was picked where, #27? By your logic, many of these 26 other teams could have simply drafted JP, plugged him in, and their offensive (and qb problems) would be over.

 

If the kid is a phenom, the Bills will be a great team (although one with a huge hole at left tackle). If he makes the normal amount of rookie mistakes, they should be somewhere around .500.

If he sucks (yes, this too is quite possible), I hope that he is promptly pulled and replaced with Holcombe.

 

It is about the Bills winning, not just JP.

[plenzmd1]

Off base? We shall see, but it is clearly wishful thinking.

I dont blame you one iota for remaining positive. I wish I could do more of the same, but the truth remains that JP has not proven a thing on the field. Nothing.

 

There were other teams that needed more offensive production from their qb during the 04 draft. JP was picked where, #27? By your logic, many of these 26 other teams could have simply drafted JP, plugged him in, and their offensive (and qb problems) would be over.

 

If the kid is a phenom, the Bills will be a great team (although one with a huge hole at left tackle). If he makes the normal amount of rookie mistakes, they should be somewhere around .500.

If he sucks (yes, this too is quite possible), I hope that he is promptly pulled and replaced with Holcombe.

 

It is about the Bills winning, not just JP.

352669[/snapback]

I am one who never heard of JP until about 10.30 the night he was drafted. Having said that, where he was picked and who was picked ahead of him mean nothing to me. Listen, we all know he is going to make mistakes, and plenty of them. But it is a fact of life that first rd qb's do not sit for long, and that the "over hyped media attention" will follow. Nothing JP or the Bills can do about that.

 

And yep Bill, I agree with you that there is potential for him to suck. However, there is the same potential for him to be great. I personally do not think many of us outside of Cajan Bills fan watched a lot of Tulane games. All we see are highlights. Dam, Ryan Leaf had a lot of highlight plays too. So all we got is hope

 

I like the suggestion a couple posts back the kid needs some time off. Kick back for the next two weeks, talk to Stojan on the phone some more, drink a few cold ones, and get all the play he can handle.

[eball]

Off base? We shall see, but it is clearly wishful thinking.

I dont blame you one iota for remaining positive. I wish I could do more of the same, but the truth remains that JP has not proven a thing on the field. Nothing.

 

There were other teams that needed more offensive production from their qb during the 04 draft. JP was picked where, #27? By your logic, many of these 26 other teams could have simply drafted JP, plugged him in, and their offensive (and qb problems) would be over.

 

If the kid is a phenom, the Bills will be a great team (although one with a huge hole at left tackle). If he makes the normal amount of rookie mistakes, they should be somewhere around .500.

If he sucks (yes, this too is quite possible), I hope that he is promptly pulled and replaced with Holcombe.

 

It is about the Bills winning, not just JP.

352669[/snapback]

 

bill, i think you're so hung up on this "jp hasn't proven a thing" statement that you're missing my point.....which is......it is unreasonable to expect losman to perform similarly to the historical "rookie QB" standard because generally speaking, rookie QBs are playing for crappy teams.

 

while i may not have any NFL-level evidence to support the notion that losman will perform at a high level, neither do you have any to support the notion that he will perform poorly. thus, we're left to look at what we do know, which is:

 

(a) depending upon to whom you speak, losman was rated higher than the QBs chosen ahead of him. his biggest negative attribute was considered to be his "cockiness." his talent is unquestioned.

 

(b) losman has had over a year of personal instruction from sam wyche, a man with noted ability to see and develop QB talent.

 

© everything losman has done since arriving to buffalo suggests that he is a mature individual aware of the enormity of his role and eager to show the team's fan base that he respects the history of the organization and is desperate to carry it forward.

 

(d) the surrounding cast on this team is substantially stronger than what most rookie or 1st-year QBs experience.

 

therefore, based on what we know, why do you feel it is unreasonable to suggest that losman will perform at a level equal to or slightly above the average NFL QB? he doesn't have to be a "phenom" -- and if he sucked so badly that it was obvious for all to see, the bills wouldn't have jettisoned bledsoe into the wild blue yonder.

 

it's also not a good analogy to use the "other 26 teams" you reference above. as i noted earlier, good teams don't usually make a switch away from a veteran QB; that's where this year's bills "break the mold."

 

i don't think i'm exhibiting "pie in the sky" optimism here...i'd like to hear some sort of reasoned analysis to contradict what i've written. simply saying "rookie QBs struggle" isn't appropriate under these circumstances.

[Bill from NYC]

I am one who never heard of JP until about 10.30 the night he was drafted. Having said that, where he was picked and who was picked ahead of him mean nothing to me. Listen, we all know he is going to make mistakes, and plenty of them. But it is a fact of life that first rd qb's do not sit for long, and that the "over hyped media attention" will follow. Nothing JP or the Bills can do about that.

 

And yep Bill, I agree with you that there is potential for him to suck. However, there is the same potential for him to be great. I personally do not think many of us outside of Cajan Bills fan watched a lot of Tulane games. All we see are highlights. Dam, Ryan Leaf had a lot of highlight plays too. So all we got is hope

 

I like the suggestion a couple posts back the kid needs some time off. Kick back for the next two weeks, talk to Stojan on the phone some more, drink a few cold ones, and get all the play he can handle.

352686[/snapback]

 

>>>>>And yep Bill, I agree with you that there is potential for him to suck. However, there is the same potential for him to be great.<<<<<

 

I would agree if you used the word "good" instead of great. Trent Green is good. Hasselback (sic?) is good. Joe Theisman was good (this is aimed at Alaska Darin ). There is no need to list the great ones; we know who they are, and they are few.

 

>>>>>I like the suggestion a couple posts back the kid needs some time off. Kick back for the next two weeks, talk to Stojan on the phone some more,<<<<<

 

That my friend was a classic!

[Bill from NYC]

bill, i think you're so hung up on this "jp hasn't proven a thing" statement that you're missing my point.....which is......it is unreasonable to expect losman to perform similarly to the historical "rookie QB" standard because generally speaking, rookie QBs are playing for crappy teams.

 

while i may not have any NFL-level evidence to support the notion that losman will perform at a high level, neither do you have any to support the notion that he will perform poorly.  thus, we're left to look at what we do know, which is:

 

(a) depending upon to whom you speak, losman was rated higher than the QBs chosen ahead of him.  his biggest negative attribute was considered to be his "cockiness."  his talent is unquestioned.

 

(b) losman has had over a year of personal instruction from sam wyche, a man with noted ability to see and develop QB talent.

 

© everything losman has done since arriving to buffalo suggests that he is a mature individual aware of the enormity of his role and eager to show the team's fan base that he respects the history of the organization and is desperate to carry it forward.

 

(d) the surrounding cast on this team is substantially stronger than what most rookie or 1st-year QBs experience.

 

therefore, based on what we know, why do you feel it is unreasonable to suggest that losman will perform at a level equal to or slightly above the average NFL QB?  he doesn't have to be a "phenom" -- and if he sucked so badly that it was obvious for all to see, the bills wouldn't have jettisoned bledsoe into the wild blue yonder.

 

it's also not a good analogy to use the "other 26 teams" you reference above.  as i noted earlier, good teams don't usually make a switch away from a veteran QB; that's where this year's bills "break the mold."

 

i don't think i'm exhibiting "pie in the sky" optimism here...i'd like to hear some sort of reasoned analysis to contradict what i've written.  simply saying "rookie QBs struggle" isn't appropriate under these circumstances.

352723[/snapback]

 

Your post is reasonable. This is where I disagree to some point:

 

>>>>>therefore, based on what we know, why do you feel it is unreasonable to suggest that losman will perform at a level equal to or slightly above the average NFL QB? he doesn't have to be a "phenom" -- and if he sucked so badly that it was obvious for all to see, the bills wouldn't have jettisoned bledsoe into the wild blue yonder.<<<<<

 

Yeah but you see, he DID suck in 04. He was injured, and barely got on the field. When he did, there was little time to see what he could do, and what little we saw was less than splendid.

JP is our qb due to the potential that the coaches see in him, not his performance in 04. This by itself is fine; they are professionals and they like what they see in the kid.

That said, pros also make mistakes.

 

All we can do is speculate. I trust TD and the coaches. These guys know what they are doing, but again, nobody is mistake free.

I am merely waiting to see JP play well in a real game to view him as anything more than a highly touted unknown.

[Alaska Darin]

Off base? We shall see, but it is clearly wishful thinking.

I dont blame you one iota for remaining positive. I wish I could do more of the same, but the truth remains that JP has not proven a thing on the field. Nothing.

 

There were other teams that needed more offensive production from their qb during the 04 draft. JP was picked where, #27? By your logic, many of these 26 other teams could have simply drafted JP, plugged him in, and their offensive (and qb problems) would be over.

 

If the kid is a phenom, the Bills will be a great team (although one with a huge hole at left tackle). If he makes the normal amount of rookie mistakes, they should be somewhere around .500.

If he sucks (yes, this too is quite possible), I hope that he is promptly pulled and replaced with Holcombe.

 

It is about the Bills winning, not just JP.

352669[/snapback]

Dan Marino was the next to last pick in the first round in 1983. The logic that Losman isn't good because 22 teams passed on him (including the BILLS) doesn't wash.

 

How many of the 20 teams that passed on Nate Clements or the 30 teams that passed on Todd Heap wish they had those picks back (to give a couple of examples)?

 

I also don't think you gave him a fair shake. He's right in that most first round QBs aren't given the offensive weapons that Losman is going to have for his first start. His 3 key skill position teammates are all first round draft choices with experience and success and the NFL level. Compare that to guys like Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, etc. The closest guy to what Losman has currently is probably Peyton Manning. He had Faulk, Harrison (though for only 12 games), and Jerome Pathon. But the Colts didn't have anywhere near the defense of special teams the BILLS currently possess.

[plenzmd1]

Dan Marino was the next to last pick in the first round in 1983.  The logic that Losman isn't good because 22 teams passed on him (including the BILLS) doesn't wash. 

 

How many of the 20 teams that passed on Nate Clements or the 30 teams that passed on Todd Heap wish they had those picks back (to give a couple of examples)?

 

I also don't think you gave him a fair shake.  He's right in that most first round QBs aren't given the offensive weapons that Losman is going to have for his first start.  His 3 key skill position teammates are all first round draft choices with experience and success and the NFL level.  Compare that to guys like Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, etc.  The closest guy to what Losman has currently is probably Peyton Manning.  He had Faulk, Harrison (though for only 12 games), and Jerome Pathon.  But the Colts didn't have anywhere near the defense of special teams the BILLS currently possess.

352749[/snapback]

Way to early, but whatya do with JP in the preseason? How much PT does he get. What if Holcomb clearly outplays in the preseason, and we start off 0-3 with JP having 2 TDs and 8 picks? I hope and pary and do think that will be the case, but that would be interesting

[eball]

Way to early, but whatya do with JP in the preseason? How much PT does he get. What if Holcomb clearly outplays in the preseason, and we start off 0-3 with JP having 2 TDs and 8 picks? I hope and pary and do think that will be the case, but that would be interesting

352758[/snapback]

 

JP will start the regular season regardless of what happens in the preseason, unless he is injured. guaranteed. i predict he'll play a half in each of the first three PS games, then probably a quarter in the 4th.

 

if the bills start off the regular season 0-3 and losman's play is at least partially to blame, i certainly hope the coaching staff at least considers making a change. but i believe the question is moot, because i don't think there's any evidence out there to suggest that such a start is likely.

 

and by the way, it would not be interesting at all. it would suck.

[Alaska Darin]

Way to early, but whatya do with JP in the preseason? How much PT does he get. What if Holcomb clearly outplays in the preseason, and we start off 0-3 with JP having 2 TDs and 8 picks? I hope and pary and do think that will be the case, but that would be interesting

352758[/snapback]

Preseason is a terrible evaluation but Losman will start as long as he's healthy. I think the "braintrust" at OBD has alot more patience than we do and that's probably a good thing. Holcomb is an excellent insurance policy, though.

 

I really don't know what to expect from him, to be honest. He's certainly athletic and he seems to be pretty smart. That said, he didn't do much in his limited action last season to give me the confidence that the very smart folks who see him every day obviously have. I hope they're right.

[Bill from NYC]

Preseason is a terrible evaluation but Losman will start as long as he's healthy.  I think the "braintrust" at OBD has alot more patience than we do and that's probably a good thing.  Holcomb is an excellent insurance policy, though.

 

I really don't know what to expect from him, to be honest.  He's certainly athletic and he seems to be pretty smart.  That said, he didn't do much in his limited action last season to give me the confidence that the very smart folks who see him every day obviously have.  I hope they're right.

352792[/snapback]

 

The bottom paragraph is what I have been trying to say to you from day one.

 

Well stated, I might add.

[Alaska Darin]

The bottom paragraph is what I have been trying to say to you from day one.

 

Well stated, I might add. 

352801[/snapback]

Thanks. I saw him make 2 throws last season that only probably 20% of all QBs I've ever seen can make. One was in the preseason game against Denver when he threw an absolute laser across his body on a late out to (I think) Freddie Smith to the far sideline. You could almost hear the thing whistle through the TV.

 

The second one was a designed rollout to his right in the regular season where he threw another DART about 25 yards on a line to either Peters or Burns and they dropped the ball.

 

Neither of those things is coached. You can either do it or you can't. Most can't.

[eball]

Thanks.  I saw him make 2 throws last season that only probably 20% of all QBs I've ever seen can make.  One was in the preseason game against Denver when he threw an absolute laser across his body on a late out to (I think) Freddie Smith to the far sideline.  You could almost hear the thing whistle through the TV.

 

The second one was a designed rollout to his right in the regular season where he threw another DART about 25 yards on a line to either Peters or Burns and they dropped the ball.

 

Neither of those things is coached.  You can either do it or you can't.  Most can't.

352805[/snapback]

 

darin, the throw against denver was the one after which NFL films caught shanahan on the sideline say, "whoa, we've got a football player here."

 

bill, my basic "difficulty" with your line of thinking on this topic is that you're not giving losman any benefit of the doubt whatsoever. it's as if you're afraid to be optimistic, lest you be disappointed later.

 

in any case, we'll all be happy if losman (and the bills) performs well. it's just that i'll be the one who can say, "i told you so."

[Tux of Borg]

JP has given 110% to this team since joining it. He took a short break after the season ended and was right back here in Buffalo. That was before "this is my team" Bledsoe was cut. I don't expect him to have a great year, and he's going to have rookie mistakes. But I rather have him at the helm than Bledsoe.