JA and company are locking in on Diggs to a fault and here is the proof watch the whole thing

[Jerome007]

21 hours ago, eball said:

Diggs is open all the time.  You'd prefer we look elsewhere first?

Of course he is NOT open all the time. But I don't recall INTs and forced throws because Josh ONLY focused on Diggs. So where's the issue? And JOsh has spread the ball around, even though Diggs is getting the greater chunk of them. #1 WR are #1 for a reason...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I have a couple conspiracy theories to throw out there. 
 

1) Diggs has been bitching so much, that Allen went nuts and fed him the ball every possible play to show him he isn’t the answer.

 

or 

 

2) After the Davis fumble, Josh officially went off the rails and decided to FORCE the coaches to put somebody else in the routes because he wouldn’t throw to anybody but Diggs to get Davis off the field.  I tend to think it’s this version.   Davis has let him down SO much, I wonder if JA isn’t trying to get them to play somebody else and they blatantly refuse to do it, this was Josh’s stage to show the staff he’s done w him. 
 

I know it sounds off, but maybe JA isn’t the choir boy we are led to believe and the Diggs comments this off-season seemed to point to that too.

 

Or maybe... they played more man coverage than usual.  And our man beater is diggs.  

 

Nobody is thinking about personal BS when they're playing QB, and if they are they probably are very bad at QB.  Some poor play calls and spacing.  Drops and fumbles.  Some challenging man coverage (i think harty played 12 snaps and whenever he ran a route he was held).  And some missed reads by Allen.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Of course he is NOT open all the time. But I don't recall INTs and forced throws because Josh ONLY focused on Diggs. So where's the issue? And JOsh has spread the ball around, even though Diggs is getting the greater chunk of them. #1 WR are #1 for a reason...

This is all overblown…josh got baited into a slant by a LB that dropped out late in the last game but I haven’t really noticed a lot of forcing the ball anywhere since week 1 where he was forcing it deep

 

there was a play people are angry about where josh supposedly threw it to a double covered diggs but diggs had the double coverage beat for a td and the ball was exactly where it needed to be he just got held(no call of course). Davis was also open for a big gain on the first drive but he clearly got held(no call of course). Refs made this game look worse than it was by letting defenders absolutely manhandle passcatchers 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Or maybe... they played more man coverage than usual.  And our man beater is diggs.  

 

Nobody is thinking about personal BS when they're playing QB, and if they are they probably are very bad at QB.  Some poor play calls and spacing.  Drops and fumbles.  Some challenging man coverage (i think harty played 12 snaps and whenever he ran a route he was held).  And some missed reads by Allen.  

The holding was insane in this game lol had my conspiracy theory bells ringing that they were sick of blowout primetime games..  bills receivers were getting held all night.  Hilariously ironic that the controversy of this game is one uncalled hold when there were dozens most of which were not in the bills favor 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[teef]

1 minute ago, High Football IQ said:

Ya think?

 

This whole offense that this clown Dorsey is running consists of running the same handful of plays over and over again:

 

- Pass the ball to Diggs every other play

- shotgun run up the middle for 2 yards

- stupid gadget play to Harty for negative yards

- 2 yard pass to Knox/Kindcaid

 

A pop warner coaching staff would have more success in Buffalo with this team than the current staff.

calm down filthy beast.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is all overblown…josh got baited into a slant by a LB that dropped out late in the last game but I haven’t really noticed a lot of forcing the ball anywhere since week 1 where he was forcing it deep

 

there was a play people are angry about where josh supposedly threw it to a double covered diggs but diggs had the double coverage beat for a td and the ball was exactly where it needed to be he just got held(no call of course). Davis was also open for a big gain on the first drive but he clearly got held(no call of course). Refs made this game look worse than it was by letting defenders absolutely manhandle passcatchers 

 

 

The holding was insane in this game lol had my conspiracy theory bells ringing that they were sick of blowout primetime games..  bills receivers were getting held all night.  Hilariously ironic that the controversy of this game is one uncalled hold when there were dozens most of which were not in the bills favor 

 

I know in that cover1 video there's the one where he overthrows diggs (who beat his double team) and its like where else should he go?  And you see harty running up field 20 yards down the field getting absolutely molested the entire way to his break, into his break, out of his break.  Like cmon now.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I know in that cover1 video there's the one where he overthrows diggs (who beat his double team) and its like where else should he go?  And you see harty running up field 20 yards down the field getting absolutely molested the entire way to his break, into his break, out of his break.  Like cmon now.  

Yea that’s the play I was talking about…diggs got held which slowed him down a lot…didn’t look like an overthrow to me at all.  Either way that was the right decision because diggs beat his man(men) anyway and nobody else did 😂

Edited October 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

17 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

Ya think?

 

This whole offense that this clown Dorsey is running consists of running the same handful of plays over and over again:

 

- Pass the ball to Diggs every other play

- shotgun run up the middle for 2 yards

- stupid gadget play to Harty for negative yards

- 2 yard pass to Knox/Kindcaid

 

A pop warner coaching staff would have more success in Buffalo with this team than the current staff.

Not trying to say Dorsey is good by any means but it’s hard to evaluate a play caller when his offensive line is getting absolutely smoked.  All the supposedly great OCs have looked like absolute poop in the games that happens to them too.  Plays have broken down so fast the last two weeks that who even knows what the play design was…and josh is obviously going to look for diggs when sh*t goes sideways haha

 

a good amount of these plays where he ends up going to diggs are backyard football type broken plays. when we have been steadier up front josh has spread the ball a lot 

 

the funny thing for me about Dorsey is any time he happens to dosomething right it feels like our players absolutely botch the execution 😂

 

Daboll/martindale def modeled their defense after those kc playoff defenses that frustrated him when he was with buffalo…line the DT up right over center and play man and hold like crazy on the back end.  Refs allowed a lot of it both ways making that game a lot uglier than it needed to be (less flags though) can’t help but think we would’ve won pretty comfortably if they called holding a little tighter.  You’re pretty much taking all the man beaters away when you play that way just gotta hope you get away with it…diggs is so good though that he can still get some separation so he was pretty much the only option 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I know right !?!  Why’d he force him to throw that roll out to knox in the dirt when knox had 5 yards of separation to seal the game. 
 

and why’d he make him under throw two college open TDs to Diggs which instead both lead to no points and 1 turnover. 
 

poor Josh, he’s just a victim here, just like he was a victim of daboll when he was here or McDermott or Frazier …. or …. maybe he has some culpability in the offensive woes too. Cover one points out a number of miscues on his part.  No one gets a pass after the last two offensive performances. 

Especially not $250 million Hollywood

 

You realize EVERY QB in NFL history, the greatest of them all, has 1000 of these plays on their resumes right?  But you see that is the point..Allen must PERFECT (which is physically impossible) to over come the offensive issues of this team that start with the Dorsey. 

 

PS:  I can name a LOT more bad Dorsey calls than bad Allen throws.  

PS2:  Short or not, Knox had both hands on the ball and didn't catch it, thats on him to make that play with what he is making.  QB job is put the ball where its catchable...it was more than catchable.  Could it have been a better throw, sure, but it was still where it needed to be for Knox to make the play in which he didn't.  

PS3:  On one of those Diggs throw it was caught and stupid redzone offensive design is why we did not come away with points.  

Edited October 17, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You realize EVERY QB in NFL history, the greatest of them all, has 1000 of these plays on their resumes right?  But you see that is the point..Allen must PERFECT (which is physically impossible) to over come the offensive issues of this team that start with the Dorsey. 

 

PS:  I can name a LOT more bad Dorsey calls than bad Allen throws.  

PS2:  Short or not, Knox had both hands on the ball and didn't catch it, thats on him to make that play with what he is making.  QB job is put the ball where its catchable...it was more than catchable.  Could it have been a better throw, sure, but it was still where it needed to be for Knox to make the play in which he didn't.  

PS3:  On one of those Diggs throw it was caught and stupid redzone offensive design is why we did not come away with points.  

Dorsey has issues, so do the WRs and so absolutely does the most highly compensated member of the franchise. 
 

He didn’t deliver in specifically 2 big moments, to win the Jax game and to close the giants game. If homers want to give him a pass and pin it on everyone else that’s up to you, but completely intellectually dishonest. 
 

maybe a little more indulgence on film and he doesn’t blow that RPO read and hands it to cook for a big gain instead of throwing to Diggs for a two yard loss or hits Shakir wide open in the flat for a big gain instead of locking onto a guy in triple coverage. There’s more issues here than play design. Cover 1 dig an excellent job point it out 

[Scott7975]

17 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

FWIW, Knox has 25 targets and Kincaid 19.  That's more than any receiver not named Diggs or Davis (and Knox is only 5 targets behind Davis)

 

The problem with Knox is that he's back down at a 56% catch rate after improving to 69% and 74% in 2021 and 2022; he's also back up to a 12% drop % after bringing it down to 5-6% the last 2 years.  3 drops out of 25 targets is no bueno.

 

Yes, through 6 weeks Diggs has the same targets as he did through 6 weeks last season.  The ball is being spread just as much as it was last year.  Nobody said anything last year about it but one person says something and it gets parroted around lol.

[Beck Water]

18 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes, through 6 weeks Diggs has the same targets as he did through 6 weeks last season.  The ball is being spread just as much as it was last year.  Nobody said anything last year about it but one person says something and it gets parroted around lol.

 

Actually.....by midseason last year, it was being said that the Bills offense was one very good receiver named Diggs and nothing much behind him.

 

Which is of course why in the offseason, Beane swapped McKenzie for Harty (theoretically a higher-ceiling and more versatile upgrade), swapped Kumerow for Sherfield (again, while not a great receiver, an upgrade as Sherfield can actually play WR), and drafted Kincaid.

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Actually.....by midseason last year, it was being said that the Bills offense was one very good receiver named Diggs and nothing much behind him.

 

Which is of course why in the offseason, Beane swapped McKenzie for Harty (theoretically a higher-ceiling and more versatile upgrade), swapped Kumerow for Sherfield (again, while not a great receiver, an upgrade as Sherfield can actually play WR), and drafted Kincaid.

 

Yes we all knew  we needed an upgrade at receiver.  Nobody was saying things like "Allen locks on to Diggs too much."  In fact other seasons people were bitching that we werent getting the ball to Diggs enough and that other #1's get the ball.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Buffaloman said:

I can't believe that Dorsey is calling 16 pass plays to Diggs, I think Josh goes rogue and plays hero regardless of the call! 

Especially when Diggs is double covered on most of those plays

 

I commend to you the excellent breakdown of our first half passing plays by @HoofHearted in the "Anyone at the game or with all-22" thread

 

 

Diggs is not double covered on all of those plays, and when he is double covered, it doesn't mean that he isn't open.

 

Diggs is often the first read.  He is also (deservedly) the first player Josh looks to when the play breaks down and its scramble rules.

 

Josh is not "going rogue" and "playing hero regardless of the call".

 

He does sometimes wait a bit too long for a deep option to develop (not always to Diggs), or work to extend the play,  when he could and probably should take his outlet receiver - one could call that "playing hero".   He doesn't do it as often or as consistently as he used to, but he still does it more than I'd like.

 

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes we all knew  we needed an upgrade at receiver.  Nobody was saying things like "Allen locks on to Diggs too much."

 

I guess, to me, if you're saying that the offense is one very good receiver named Diggs and nothing much behind him, it follows that the QB will be locking on to that very good receiver named Diggs too much.

 

I can't tell if this is a semantic issue between us, or if you perceive a very real difference that isn't clear to me?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Beck Water

[DCofNC]

50 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Dorsey has issues, so do the WRs and so absolutely does the most highly compensated member of the franchise. 
 

He didn’t deliver in specifically 2 big moments, to win the Jax game and to close the giants game. If homers want to give him a pass and pin it on everyone else that’s up to you, but completely intellectually dishonest. 
 

maybe a little more indulgence on film and he doesn’t blow that RPO read and hands it to cook for a big gain instead of throwing to Diggs for a two yard loss or hits Shakir wide open in the flat for a big gain instead of locking onto a guy in triple coverage. There’s more issues here than play design. Cover 1 dig an excellent job point it out 

Oh now you did it, you can’t blame JA.  I actually agree though, he has lost 2 games this year and almost made it 3 with poor execution/decisions.  He’s one of the best on the planet when he’s on, when he’s not, he’s really not good enough.  He needs to bring the floor up.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

You’re looking at the symptom instead of the disease.

 

Diggs is the only receiver on this team that gets consistent separation. 

 

This has resulted in Allen targeting Diggs repeatedly in man coverage. In zone coverage, he starts to get the others more involved.

 

One difference from last season (at least the first half of the season) is Allen targeted Gabe deep, in man coverage, more often. 

he’s forcing the ball to a well covered Diggs more often each week

[CincyBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Oh now you did it, you can’t blame JA.  I actually agree though, he has lost 2 games this year and almost made it 3 with poor execution/decisions.  He’s one of the best on the planet when he’s on, when he’s not, he’s really not good enough.  He needs to bring the floor up.

So you're blaming Allen for the Jags loss?  Incredible. 

 

For the record, if we're able to add one more QUALITY play maker and fix the O line so that it's at least AVERAGE then all Allen has to do is exactly what he's been doing for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. Imagine this team the last few seasons without Allen.

 

 

[Dubie54]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:54 PM, BananaB said:

Just listened to Dorsey’s press conference and someone asked about getting another player involved besides just Diggs and Gabe. His answer was we got so many solid players it’s changes each week which guys they gameplan to get involved. I guess I don’t see that when I watch the games, maybe Hardy the first few games but not much. You’d think it would be more beneficial for the O if they just focus on one guy week in week out, that way the chemistry between Josh and the player gets stronger over the season. Jmo

His comment does not match what we see during the game. 

[DCofNC]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So you're blaming Allen for the Jags loss?  Incredible. 

 

For the record, if we're able to add one more QUALITY play maker and fix the O line so that it's at least AVERAGE then all Allen has to do is exactly what he's been doing for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. Imagine this team the last few seasons without Allen.

 

 

I don’t know what OLs you are watching out there, this one isn’t great, but it’s at least average.  Are we going to give Tyrod credit for playing better than Allen (with the exception of being an idiot at the end of the half) with a far worse line and zero legitimate weapons?   The excuses for Allen are getting pretty obscene.  His decision making is questionable at best.  He’s repeatedly missing the RPO reads, not running with a clear first down in front of him and throwing into double coverage.  
 

Do they need more weapons? Absolutely.  

 

Is Allen the primary reason for the loss vs the Jets? No question.  For the Jags?  I would argue yes as well, his poor decisions again lead to missed opportunities to close the game.  The defense got CRUSHED by injury and the offense couldn’t even stay on the field.    The Jags only scored 25 points and the majority of those were late. The offense didn’t do crap all day.   Allen  did nothing until garbage time.   Once the game was out of hand and the Jags went prevent, Allen got 2 big plays which pad his stats, but don’t do anything for a win. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, DCofNC said:

I don’t know what OLs you are watching out there, this one isn’t great, but it’s at least average.  Are we going to give Tyrod credit for playing better than Allen (with the exception of being an idiot at the end of the half) with a far worse line and zero legitimate weapons?   The excuses for Allen are getting pretty obscene.  His decision making is questionable at best.  He’s repeatedly missing the RPO reads, not running with a clear first down in front of him and throwing into double coverage.  
 

Do they need more weapons? Absolutely.  

 

Is Allen the primary reason for the loss vs the Jets? No question.  For the Jags?  I would argue yes as well, his poor decisions again lead to missed opportunities to close the game.  The defense got CRUSHED by injury and the offense couldn’t even stay on the field.    The Jags only scored 25 points and the majority of those were late. The offense didn’t do crap all day.   Allen  did nothing until garbage time.   Once the game was out of hand and the Jags went prevent, Allen got 2 big plays which pad his stats, but don’t do anything for a win. 

I disagree with almost everything you and Over 29 Years a Fan say on 2BD.  Allen is the Bills best player.  Period, end of sentence.  He is the primary reason we've been sniffing at the Super Bowl for the last 4 seasons.  While Allen could improve his decision making as a natural consequence of his continuing to gain experience it's unreasonable AND unrealistic to expect him to make a big jump going forward.  By any objective measure Allen is a top 5 (I think top 3) QB in the NFL.

 

So if you really believe that Allen is a BIG part of the problem here and that his improvement is the most likley and easiest way to improve the offense then you must be in favor of parting ways with him because Allen is not getting substantially better. So come out and make the (incredibly stupid) argument for moving beyond Allen.  I'm sure there are at least 27 teams that would give up whatever they had to get Allen.  We should be able to get a bonanza of draft picks for him.

 

Put up or shut up. This constant beating on Allen is wrong and unhinged.

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

I guess, to me, if you're saying that the offense is one very good receiver named Diggs and nothing much behind him, it follows that the QB will be locking on to that very good receiver named Diggs too much.

 

I can't tell if this is a semantic issue between us, or if you perceive a very real difference that isn't clear to me?

 

Yes, there is a real difference between people saying "we need to get the ball to Diggs more because our other WR suck" and "Allen locks onto Diggs too much."

 

It's literally the exact opposite.  How can you not see the difference?

 

In both cases the target share is the same though.