OK all you smart guys...

[Dan Darragh]

I'm tired of reading about how Davis "isn't a good WR2 but he'd make a decent WR3." Can any of you provide a coherent explanation what the qualities of a good WR3 are that are different from a good WR2?

 

(I doubt it.)

 

[Dr.Sack]

1 minute ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'm tired of reading about how Davis "isn't a good WR2 but he'd make a decent WR3." Can any of you provide a coherent explanation what the qualities of a good WR3 are that are different from a good WR2?

 

(I doubt it.)

 

I think more and more a good WR2 is someone who plays from the slot a la St-Brown, or someone who has WR1 talent but plays behind an All-Pro ala Devonta Smith, Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins pre-Burrow injury. 

[SCBills]

Davis doesn’t win off the LOS quick enough to be a reliable chain mover.  
 

A WR2 needs to have that in their bag.  
 

It’s a huge reason our offense is so high variance. 

[HappyDays]

Sure. A good WR3 takes advantage of attention given to better pass catchers around him and lesser coverage from depth CBs. That's Davis in a nutshell. His most efficient year was as a rookie in 2020 when he would regularly end up streaking wide open downfield because defenses had so much else to worry about. When defenses can focus on stopping him because he's a full time #2, he loses those advantages and ends up looking like a marginal player.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by HappyDays

[AlfaBill]

8 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'm tired of reading about how Davis "isn't a good WR2 but he'd make a decent WR3." Can any of you provide a coherent explanation what the qualities of a good WR3 are that are different from a good WR2?

 

(I doubt it.)

 

All good answers to your question 

[Heavy Kevi]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Sure. A good WR3 takes advantage of attention given to better pass catchers around him and lesser coverage from depth CBs. That's Davis in a nutshell. His most efficient year was as a rookie in 2020 when he would regularly end up streaking wide open downfield because defenses had so much else to worry about. When defenses can focus on stopping him because he's a full time #2, he loses those advantages and ends up looking like a marginal player.

 

 

This.

 

When there is no attention on him, he feasts.

 

But when they are paying attention, he's not open because he doesn't have the whole route tree; and when you really need it, he drops the ball (in every literal and figurative sense).

 

Hands is probably the biggest problem for him though. I think of a great #2 as a guy who may be physically limited enough to keep him from being a #1, but understands the game enough to be in the right place, and to CATCH the ball when it matters.

 

Hines ward. Cole Beasley. wes welker. Julian Edelman. Some examples that fit that mold of not physically gifted but gamers when it matters. And the prototype at WR2.

 

Not sure how much $.02 is worth these days with inflation, but there's mine 

[SoCal Deek]

Two important qualities:

 

1. Catch the ball when thrown to you.

2. Hold onto the ball after catching the ball thrown to you. 
 

Any questions?

[NickelCity]

We're starving for receivers who can separate reliably (outside of diggs). It's completely choking the offense. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'm tired of reading about how Davis "isn't a good WR2 but he'd make a decent WR3." Can any of you provide a coherent explanation what the qualities of a good WR3 are that are different from a good WR2?

 

(I doubt it.)

 

 

 

This sh!t has been explained ad nauseam and you act like it's never been explored here on TSW.   

 

It's as clear as day.......... @HappyDays explained it well.

 

He only runs a few routes well and he needs lesser coverage players across from him to be a more consistent version of himself.   If he's getting 6 targets a game with a CB1 or CB2 across from him......with his limitations........his mistakes are going to pile up and be costly.   

[Richard Noggin]

I'd say catch percentage is a pretty good measure of reliability/efficiency, which is pretty damned important for whomever gets the 2nd most targets on a given offense. While Davis has ridiculously high YPC numbers over his career, he also has ridiculously LOW catch% numbers, meaning he's a dangerous deep threat but definitely not a go-to guy. Targeting Davis is nearly a 50/50 proposition, which is unacceptably inefficient.

 

Diggs caught 10 of 16 targets today, for example, which was actually really BAD for him (but still over 60%). He's usually MUCH more efficient. 

[Dan Darragh]

51 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Two important qualities:

 

1. Catch the ball when thrown to you.

2. Hold onto the ball after catching the ball thrown to you. 
 

Any questions?

Yes.

 

If you can't do either one, does that make you a decent WR3?

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

Yes.

 

If you can't do either one, does that make you a decent WR3?

I maintain it doesn’t make you much of a WR at all. Now, I’m not a Davis hater but I have to wonder what this team is doing with him. He seems like a total afterthought in this offense.

Edited October 16, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[PatsFanNH]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

Davis doesn’t win off the LOS quick enough to be a reliable chain mover.  
 

A WR2 needs to have that in their bag.  
 

It’s a huge reason our offense is so high variance. 

So by your definition Meyers (LV Raiders WR now) is a good WR 2.

[JimBob2232]

This is a really good thread. I haven’t thought of it much. Gabe is a solid WR and had come up big for us many times.  I don’t get lost in #2 vs #3 - but what we are really missing is that underneath player who plays the slot.   Someone in the Welker/Beasley/Kupp mold.   That would make a huge difference.  I think we thought Kinkaid would be that guy. So far haven’t seen it.  Might be play calling - but that rol would be huge for exploiting the passing game and freeing up Gabe. 
 

I hope we re-sign Gabe, but I suspect he will command more than I’d be comfortable with and we’ll watch him explode somewhere else in a couple years. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Two important qualities:

 

1. Catch the ball when thrown to you.

2. Hold onto the ball after catching the ball thrown to you. 
 

Any questions?

 

 

3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'd say catch percentage is a pretty good measure of reliability/efficiency, which is pretty damned important for whomever gets the 2nd most targets on a given offense. While Davis has ridiculously high YPC numbers over his career, he also has ridiculously LOW catch% numbers, meaning he's a dangerous deep threat but definitely not a go-to guy. Targeting Davis is nearly a 50/50 proposition, which is unacceptably inefficient.

 

Diggs caught 10 of 16 targets today, for example, which was actually really BAD for him (but still over 60%). He's usually MUCH more efficient. 

Gabe Davis has caught 70% of the balls thrown to him this year. (21 catches on 30 targets). Most of his catches have been for 1st down or TDs. He's having the most efficient season of his career by FAR.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'd say catch percentage is a pretty good measure of reliability/efficiency, which is pretty damned important for whomever gets the 2nd most targets on a given offense. While Davis has ridiculously high YPC numbers over his career, he also has ridiculously LOW catch% numbers, meaning he's a dangerous deep threat but definitely not a go-to guy. Targeting Davis is nearly a 50/50 proposition, which is unacceptably inefficient.

 

Diggs caught 10 of 16 targets today, for example, which was actually really BAD for him (but still over 60%). He's usually MUCH more efficient. 

Targets is a weird stat. The QB could be throwing it away but since the receivers in the area it’s a target to them even though they had zero chance to catch it.

[Matt_In_NH]

I think the answer is the fans want two wr1s.   There is a fascination with wrs.  Not saying it’s not important and more talent would not be better but let’s use the guys we have is my thought.  

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Targets is a weird stat. The QB could be throwing it away but since the receivers in the area it’s a target to them even though they had zero chance to catch it.

It’s not funny …with enough samples that is a non factor.  

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think the answer is the fans want two wr1s.   There is a fascination with wrs.  Not saying it’s not important and more talent would not be better but let’s use the guys we have is my thought.  

It’s not funny …with enough samples that is a non factor.  

That depends on the team. You can have a person who had 20 targets but only 10-12 were really catchable the rest were throw aways or throwing up hoping he make the catch. Gronk had a few games like that because Brady hoped he make a great catch or get a PI call. 

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'd say catch percentage is a pretty good measure of reliability/efficiency, which is pretty damned important for whomever gets the 2nd most targets on a given offense. While Davis has ridiculously high YPC numbers over his career, he also has ridiculously LOW catch% numbers, meaning he's a dangerous deep threat but definitely not a go-to guy. Targeting Davis is nearly a 50/50 proposition, which is unacceptably inefficient.

 

Diggs caught 10 of 16 targets today, for example, which was actually really BAD for him (but still over 60%). He's usually MUCH more efficient. 

As always, well written and thought out.  I see his value due to the deep threat, but when you look around the league with teams like Seattle who has Lockett complimenting Metcalf, or Higgins complimenting Chase.

 

We just don’t have a #2, and Davis is not worth an extension.  He was listed at himself post game, amd he should be.

[mrags]

5 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'm tired of reading about how Davis "isn't a good WR2 but he'd make a decent WR3." Can any of you provide a coherent explanation what the qualities of a good WR3 are that are different from a good WR2?

 

(I doubt it.)

 

A good #2 doesn’t drop easy catches or fumble the ball?