The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[US Egg]

6 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

Do you think it would be possible to get a "fire Dorsey" chant going at the next home game? It's a prime time game, so it should be enough to embarrass Dorsey in the national spotlight and perhaps McDermott will have to face the music.  He should have been fired yesterday. If McDermott cares more about loyalty than about results, then he should get the axe, too.  Look what happened in LV when they fired their HC. They looked like a different team. Get this cancer Dorsey out of Buffalo!

[ddaryl]

You can't install a new offense this year. Got to ride this one out. 

 

[Allen2Moulds]

9 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

You can't install a new offense this year. Got to ride this one out. 

 

I don't think we need to, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Dabol's offense still? It's all about making minor tweaks, and knowing when to call certain plays, and how to attack a defense. Dorsey amazingly has zero feel for the game. That's why our offense feels so clunky.

 

[Big Turk]

This is pretty interesting stuff and talks about some issues with the offense in more detail and to why they are happening...

 

points made:

 

1) Dorsey's efficient offense is limiting Allen

2) Dorsey seems to be light on details and it usually seems to happen when it matters most. Details matter, especially against good teams/defenses.

3) Dorsey has nothing "built" on top of his regular plays to hit chunk plays once they run them multiple times in a game. No layered concepts. Defenses are willing to give these easy plays to teams now to protect against bigger plays knowing they eventually will screw up or get aggressive. Also ends up shortening the game by our own hand.  Dorsey accepts these too often without trying to scheme up bigger gains.

4) Too often the playcalls require Allen/Diggs to do something exceptional because the plays aren't designed to work against the coverage that is being shown(ie, having no man beater concepts for a play against a 1 high man coverage look)

5) Offense seems to lack direction and sometimes it makes you wonder what the "purpose" of a play was in the situation it was called in because it doesn't accomplish anything.

6) Dorsey seems happy to take what the defense is giving without aggressively attacking like Daboll did often times. Hard to continually score with 12+ play drives. Need some explosives at some point.

7) Dorsey is not scheming up any explosive plays for the Bills too often.

8 ) Allen is not without fault. Sometimes he isn't making smart plays.  

9) Players must be getting frustrated because too much of the heavy lifting is done by the players on the field and not on the OC with the play design.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

How many QB hits did we get with 5 and 6 man pressure? 

 

Very few.

[Big Turk]

This also seems to be an issue...Allen is far outperforming what the "average" would be with things most weeks. Dorsey needs to get that average trending upwards so when he far outperforms it, it is like the Dolphins game.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Big Turk

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

This also seems to be an issue...Allen is far outperforming what the "average" would be with things most weeks. Dorsey needs to get that average trending upwards so when he far outperforms it, it is like the Dolphins game.

 

 

He's been leading the league in CPOE all year by a good margin

 

Not sure why it would be an issue

[All_Pro_Bills]

From player comments and quotes about the offense the players believe going up-tempo and running out of the no huddle is the way to get more scoring and performance out of the offense.  And when the coaches go to slow down mode it kills the energy and cadence the offense is building.  Everything goes dead.  So the protecting the defense by slowing things down on offense is actually putting more stress on the defense by scoring fewer points and cutting the margin of error the defense has to play with during the game. 

 

Rather than go timid and cautious the offensive mindset needs to be saying to the defense is we'll get you 30 so just hold them to under that.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

56 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

This is pretty interesting stuff and talks about some issues with the offense in more detail and to why they are happening...

 

points made:

 

1) Dorsey's efficient offense is limiting Allen

2) Dorsey seems to be light on details and it usually seems to happen when it matters most. Details matter, especially against good teams/defenses.

3) Dorsey has nothing "built" on top of his regular plays to hit chunk plays once they run them multiple times in a game. No layered concepts. Defenses are willing to give these easy plays to teams now to protect against bigger plays knowing they eventually will screw up or get aggressive. Also ends up shortening the game by our own hand.  Dorsey accepts these too often without trying to scheme up bigger gains.

4) Too often the playcalls require Allen/Diggs to do something exceptional because the plays aren't designed to work against the coverage that is being shown(ie, having no man beater concepts for a play against a 1 high man coverage look)

5) Offense seems to lack direction and sometimes it makes you wonder what the "purpose" of a play was in the situation it was called in because it doesn't accomplish anything.

6) Dorsey seems happy to take what the defense is giving without aggressively attacking like Daboll did often times. Hard to continually score with 12+ play drives. Need some explosives at some point.

7) Dorsey is not scheming up any explosive plays for the Bills too often.

8 ) Allen is not without fault. Sometimes he isn't making smart plays.  

9) Players must be getting frustrated because too much of the heavy lifting is done by the players on the field and not on the OC with the play design.

 

Some of this seems to be internally contradictory as well as contradicting some previous pieces they did.

 

I'd love to hear comments on someone I trust a bit more to decode plays and defenses than I trust Cover1 right now, on point 4).  My impression, and I could be wrong, is that Dorsey tends to design plays that incorporate routes that will work against different defenses - so there's usually a man-beater play and a cover 2 beater etc.  The problem is, we don't necessarily have the skill players who will consistently get open on the different choices.

 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

 

[Allen2Moulds]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Some of this seems to be internally contradictory as well as contradicting some previous pieces they did.

 

I'd love to hear comments on someone I trust a bit more to decode plays and defenses than I trust Cover1 right now, on point 4).  My impression, and I could be wrong, is that Dorsey tends to design plays that incorporate routes that will work against different defenses - so there's usually a man-beater play and a cover 2 beater etc.  The problem is, we don't necessarily have the skill players who will consistently get open on the different choices.

 

I'd argue we have more talent on offense now, than we did 2 years ago. Kincaid has emerged as a really good #2, and both of our Guards were upgraded. Dorsey is in over his head. Too predictable, no feel for the game. We went from a team that rarely punted, to a team who disappears on offense for 2-3 quarters at a time.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Allen2Moulds

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's been leading the league in CPOE all year by a good margin

 

Not sure why it would be an issue

 

Because it means the throws he is consistently having to make are much harder throws/completions than other QBs are being asked to make.  Which means, when he isn't performing exceptional and maybe only "average", he is going to look not great.  Whereas, if his throws were easier more often, we would not get in situations against good teams where they are able to prevent some of these since they would be easier plays to complete to begin with.

 

Essentially you are taking the floor up higher which then moves the ceiling up higher whereas right now with the floor being so low, against good teams, the ceiling also is lower.

2 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I'd argue we have more talent on offense now, than we did 2 years ago. Kincaid has emerged as a really good #2, and both of our Guards were upgraded. Dorsey is in over his head. Too predictable, no feel for the game. We went from a team that rarely punted, to a team who disappears on offense for 2-3 quarters at a time.

 

Which is why it is starting to remind me of the Fitz offense under Gailey, because that's exactly what happened with them...start out the year hot and putting up big point and yardage totals, then teams figure it out and they basically might score early then not do anything until the 4th quarter, or not do anything early and only score in the late 3rd/4th quarters...

 

Bills have played from behind probably double the amount of time ALREADY this year than they did all of last year combined for the whole season.

[Billever76]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Yes, McD actively hates success and doesn’t want the team to win so he only hires OCs that suck.
 

Do you read what you post or what

McDermott is too stubborn to admit that his entire coaching philosophy is PAST ITS TIME.

[Allen2Moulds]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Because it means the throws he is consistently having to make are much harder throws/completions than other QBs are being asked to make.  Which means, when he isn't performing exceptional and maybe only "average", he is going to look not great.  Whereas, if his throws were easier more often, we would not get in situations against good teams where they are able to prevent some of these since they would be easier plays to complete to begin with.

 

Essentially you are taking the floor up higher which then moves the ceiling up higher whereas right now with the floor being so low, against good teams, the ceiling also is lower.

 

Which is why it is starting to remind me of the Fitz offense under Gailey, because that's exactly what happened with them...start out the year hot and putting up big point and yardage totals, then teams figure it out and they basically might score early then not do anything until the 4th quarter, or not do anything early and only score in the late 3rd/4th quarters...

 

Bills have played from behind probably double the amount of time ALREADY this year than they did all of last year combined for the whole season.

Agree on all points.

 

I love Fitz and his elite mind. Don't know why that guy couldn't be the back up for Josh, just to have his brain in the room. His limitations were strictly physical. That's why he excelled against BB (mind over scheme), but severely struggled against the Revis lead Jets.

 

Even early on in the season when we were scoring more pts, the issues were there. Some of us brought them up, and others would chose to ignore and flame us for it. We all now see it. Question is, how long do we allow it to happen? I'm also in the camp that McDermott is safe, but if he lets the season get away, by chosing to not strip play calling duties away from Dorsey, things could change. 

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Some of this seems to be internally contradictory as well as contradicting some previous pieces they did.

 

I'd love to hear comments on someone I trust a bit more to decode plays and defenses than I trust Cover1 right now, on point 4).  My impression, and I could be wrong, is that Dorsey tends to design plays that incorporate routes that will work against different defenses - so there's usually a man-beater play and a cover 2 beater etc.  The problem is, we don't necessarily have the skill players who will consistently get open on the different choices.

 

 

They are showing what is happening in this specific game against the Bengals.  But it seems the issue is that Dorsey does not evolve as the season goes on and so once teams start determining what the Bills are doing, there isn't much else that he has "up his sleeve" so to speak to counter that.  What worked a few games ago is not going to work as well over the next few games if you don't have anything else other the same type of route combos without any window dressing to at least make them think it's something else.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Big Turk

[US Egg]

16 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

 

This group made some funny movies. Best In Show is very funny.

[RyanC883]

fire McD chant is the most appropriate.  Does not matter who the OC is as long as McD is in charge.  

[GerstAusGosheim]

If you want to really set this board on fire, start a "Bring back Leslie!" chant.

[BillsFan692]

Don't stop with dorsey.

I am going to create the official fire sean mcdermott thread as well because this board needs it.

[nedboy7]

They are not firing McD mid season.  Not even worth discussing it.  Clearly an OC change is what is realistic.