The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[The Red King]

The other issue is that Dorsey continues to try and ram our players into his schemes, rather then design schemes around our players.  Hines was misused (or not used) last season, Kincaid is being misused (or not used) this season.  Beane brings in quality players that Dorsey just refuses to use b/c they don't fit his scheme.

[4merper4mer]

35 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Its because the O grossly underperforms at least as frequently as it fires on all cylinders. Dorsey.needs to find some consistently because without that you have no chance of winning a championship. 

3rd most points scored in the NFL.  Clearly he stinks and will be easy to replace.

[starrymessenger]

24 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

3rd most points scored in the NFL.  Clearly he stinks and will be easy to replace.

Right. We're fantastic.

As far as getting to the bottom of things you post reminds me of those that cited the stats showing how Frazier's D was the best ever.  Well let's just hope that the playoffs just happen to be "on" days for Dorsey & Co. 

[The Red King]

16, 38, 37, 48, 20 and 14.  As I said, when it works, it's great.  When it doesn't he can't adjust.  We've either scored 37+ or 20-, nothing between 21-36.  That's telling.

[Draconator]

I see two possible scenarios at play here. 

 

1 - Dorsey called great games against the Raiders, Commanders, and Dolphins. Now granted, he's had two off games. Is it that defensive coordinators have figured out what Dorsey has done against the Raiders, Commanders, and Dolphins, and schemed against those tendencies? And the coaches SURROUNDING Dorsey haven't given input to help Dorsey adjust?  I mean, Dorsey has a lot of experience around him. 

 

Or, 2 - Are those coaches indeed giving Dorsey input, and he's too stubborn-headed to adjust?  McDermott has shown he can adjust the defense in-game. Something in the offensive coaching box isn't doing the same. 

[Starr Almighty]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Another data point on which the 17th rail needs to be held blameless.  He publicly advocated for Dorsey but now McDermott must go for hiring Dorsey.  

I like McDermott and don't necessarily want him to go. I'm just saying there are certain areas that he has to take the blame. If he fixes these areas, I'm fine with him staying. But if he wants to act like nothing is wrong like he did with Frazier. We may have to move on.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

There's some good explanations here:
https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/06/21/draw/

https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/05/10/duo-concept/
https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/06/07/inside-zone/

 

To my understanding (and I feel certain I shall be set right if I'm mistaken 😃), the distinction with a "draw play" is the whole set up of the play is designed to "draw" the defense into defending a pass play.  It's sort of the reverse of play action (where the set up is to look like a run, but then pass).  This is done by having the OLmen in a pass set for blocking,  the QB take the snap and act as if it's a pass play (either from under center or shotgun), the RB scan as though he's gonna be pass blocking and oh yeah, take the handoff and run. 

 

It's not a necessary feature of a draw play to have a QB in shotgun - a draw can be run from under center - nor is it necessary to have the QB take the snap in shotgun and hand the ball off to a stationary RB.  In fact, I think in a draw play the RB would usually move towards the QB and try to "sell" as though he's scanning in pass pro, although that usually wouldn't mean "building up steam" as in an undisguised run play.

 

Anyway, a key difference identifying a draw (again to my understanding) is how the OL is setting up their blocks and what are their blocking assignments, which explains why to a lot of observers, the distinction between a draw play and other run plays is obscure.  That's also what @HoofHearted and @GoBills808 and others are talking about when they bring up DUO, ISO, Inside zone, etc. - they're talking about the blocking sets and assignments

It's part of the confusion of learning about run plays in football that there's terminology that applies to the back or backs (blast, counter, slant, pitch, reverse, off-tackle) and terminology that applies to the run blocking scheme, and then slang terms that apply to the combination of what the back does and what the blockers do.

 

But all run plays from shotgun where the RB does not run towards the QB for a handoff are for sure, not draws.

 

Appreciate it but honestly I am too old and too many problems to try and learn all this stuff competently lol.  The differences between the run plays I refer to is pretty simple.  One is Cook standing still, Josh takes snap and runs all the way over to him and hands him the ball.  They ran that way too much and it was mostly a bad play. This week they ran the shot gun hand off different.  The back would run to Josh and get the ball.  This play was more effective.  Maybe because it was the Giants.  Maybe because it wasn't as long developing and telegraphed.  Maybe because the running back had some steam behind him when he got the ball.

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Appreciate it but honestly I am too old and too many problems to try and learn all this stuff competently lol.  The differences between the run plays I refer to is pretty simple.  One is Cook standing still, Josh takes snap and runs all the way over to him and hands him the ball.  They ran that way too much and it was mostly a bad play. This week they ran the shot gun hand off different.  The back would run to Josh and get the ball.  This play was more effective.  Maybe because it was the Giants.  Maybe because it wasn't as long developing and telegraphed.  Maybe because the running back had some steam behind him when he got the ball.

Cook is still receiving the handoff from basically a stopped position,  completely neutralizing his speed.  Just a ridiculously stupid strategy. 

[Ray Finkel]

I love the 2nd and 10 inside draw for a loss of 3.  That helps your QB out immensely.  

[Augie]

 

 

 

I’m enjoying the unofficial thread much more. You guys are missing out. 

[major]

Not defending Dorsey at all; however, offense/scoring is way down, league wide this year. Warren sapp addressed that yesterday saying players don’t practice well anymore which he believes is leading to less offensive output 😐 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just imagine if someone started a thread demanding you get fired from your job! 😂 especially when you’re top 5.

 

of course we did fire our lose DC after top 3 finishes so who knows! Fun fact, our defense isn’t top 3 right now. 

 

 

[Julio Hopkins]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Just imagine if someone started a thread demanding you get fired from your job! 😂 especially when you’re top 5.

 

of course we did fire our lose DC after top 3 finishes so who knows! Fun fact, our defense isn’t top 3 right now. 

 

 

 

3rd overall on points per game on defense.  1st is 49ers at 14.5, 2nd is Chiefs at 14.7, and the 3rd is the Bills at 14.8.  

[26TrapDraw]

Buffalo news had an interesting article about the offensive struggles last two weeks. Summing it up :

lots of ball washing by the players coming to Dorsey’s defense. We still are in the top 6 in the most important offensive statistics

( 75% red zone efficiency 2nd  first downs PPG etc. ) all fine and dandy. Still doesn’t pass the eye test. I’m sure defenses will be in the dime most of the rest of the season against us now since the giants did it and had success ( or our game plan was garbage first half) let’s see what happens against the patsies. I think Dorsey is reluctant to adjust on the fly because he’s like “ hey our offense works execute it!” 
we will find out if it was just a lull in production this Sunday.

[HoofHearted]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:24 AM, Westside said:

He runs the shotgun draw over and over and over and are lucky if they gain three yards. When I can sit at home and watch the game knowing when a draw play is coming, I’m sure the defense does also. It’s played out, at least if they run that play, don’t use our smallest back for it. Put in Murray who can pound the line. 
Dorseys play calling is very easily readable by opposing defenses.

 

So easy that you don't even know what he's running. 😉

[Julio Hopkins]

Man, we're really going to spend all season talking about how great this offense is statistically.  Then the postseason will roll around and this offense is going to struggle against a high level defense like last year.  

 

Then the offseason will be about adding more talent while the young guys continually fail to progress and contribute.  They really replaced Daboll with the offensive equivalent of Fraizer.  

[HeHateMe]

12 minutes ago, Julio Hopkins said:

Man, we're really going to spend all season talking about how great this offense is statistically.  Then the postseason will roll around and this offense is going to struggle against a high level defense like last year.  

 

Then the offseason will be about adding more talent while the young guys continually fail to progress and contribute.  They really replaced Daboll with the offensive equivalent of Fraizer.  

Can pretty much see this playing out exactly..

[Dunkirk Donski]

Technically I don’t live in dunkirk anymore, are there any local fundraisers for a billboard ?

[Peter]

I will let Josh Allen respond to the keyboard jockeys who are pushing the ridiculous anti-Dorsey narrative:

 

"Allen, however, left no doubt about where he stands with his offensive coordinator, saying he trusts him implicitly.

 

'All of it is,' the quarterback said when asked if any of the criticism of Dorsey is misguided. 'Nobody knows what’s going on in between walls here. Nobody knows the reads that we have in the quarterback room. Nobody knows the blocking schemes that we’re putting in the offensive line room. Again, it comes down to us executing and making sure that I’m on task and making sure that I’m trying to guide this offense in the right way. Making sure I’m making good decisions. It starts with me, so that’s No. 1.'”

 

Inside the Bills: Why team's offensive captains take issue with recent criticism of Ken Dorsey

 

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

I will let Josh Allen respond to the keyboard jockeys who are pushing the ridiculous anti-Dorsey narrative:

 

"Allen, however, left no doubt about where he stands with his offensive coordinator, saying he trusts him implicitly.

 

'All of it is,' the quarterback said when asked if any of the criticism of Dorsey is misguided. 'Nobody knows what’s going on in between walls here. Nobody knows the reads that we have in the quarterback room. Nobody knows the blocking schemes that we’re putting in the offensive line room. Again, it comes down to us executing and making sure that I’m on task and making sure that I’m trying to guide this offense in the right way. Making sure I’m making good decisions. It starts with me, so that’s No. 1.'”

 

Inside the Bills: Why team's offensive captains take issue with recent criticism of Ken Dorsey

 

He advocated for him and now he has to defend him, that's not really surprising. Execution also falls on the coach, if they aren't executing then he needs to make changes.