run and shoot 4life Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 Ken Dorsey has to be fired immediately! You can see the frustration on Josh Allen's face and Diggs the meeting this off season was about Ken Dorsey being the OC he is terrible no change or creativity has two of the best tight ends in the game and can't get them the ball...James Cook is showing he is a great RB and having one of the best dynamic duo at wide receiver Diggs and Davis come on man no excuses FIRE DORSEY
ganesh Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Logic said: I thought Dorsey's playcalling left something to be desired both of the past two weeks. I, too, was frustrated by the pistol call at the 5-inch line. That said... The Bills are the 3rd ranked scoring offense in the NFL. They are behind only the Dolphins and 49ers, who most would acknowledge as the clear cut two best and most forward thinking offenses in the league. They are ahead of last year's Super Bowl participants, the Chiefs and Eagles. You don't fire an offensive coordinator who had the 2nd ranked scoring offense in his first year and has the 3rd ranked scoring offense in his second year. It's just asinine. It's reactionary "prisoner of the moment" stuff. It's not reasonable. Aside from the fact that the Bills, ya know, score a lot of points....Josh Allen endorsed Ken Dorsey, he likes Ken Dorsey, and and he wants Ken Dorsey as his OC. He's not going anywhere. You want to espouse and suggest specific changes to personnel usage, formations, or offensive strategy, then by all means, do so. I've got some suggestions myself, and there are areas where Dorsey can clearly improve. But firing him? That ain't it. Not happenin'. Ridiculous. 100% agree. However, it is the big moments where Dorsey has left things on the table. That is the difference between a guy who cam dominate with the QB that has been given to him
HappyDays Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Perfect example. It's such a perfect example that it's the only one people are using. Most of the plays where Allen holds the ball it is because no one is separating. Here he probably should have moved on from Diggs, but it's one play. One play doesn't tell a story. 7 hours ago, HoofHearted said: Diggs is always the first read if Allen sees man coverage. That's Allen doing his own thing. Correct. And logically it's the right choice. If the defense is in man, the best matchup 100% of the time is Diggs versus whoever he's up against. It doesn't matter if that CB is a top 5 CB and Davis's CB is middle of the road, you still trust Diggs in that matchup first. Edited October 17, 2023 by HappyDays
HoofHearted Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Correct. And logically it's the right choice. If the defense is in man, the best matchup 100% of the time is Diggs versus whoever he's up against. It doesn't matter if that CB is a top 5 CB and Davis's CB is middle of the road, you still trust Diggs in that matchup first. There’s no doubt about that! Take that matchup every day.
HappyDays Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Yeah no trust me bro doesn’t work. back your claim that Allen is going off script. Where is the hold package Mr progressional. Ooo wait others also do this a long time professionally. Heck everyone makes educated guesses in every profession. That is much different than your claim. Allen isn't going off script. It is built into the offense that if it is man coverage throw the ball to Diggs. It's incredibly obvious in a game like yesterday where the Giants showed man coverage a ton - it wasn't a coincidence that Diggs got an absurdly high target share. There are probably times where Alle waits a tick too long to move on if Diggs isn't getting separation, but that is a function of our offense, arguably THE function of every offense - get your best pass catcher involved early and often. 6 hours ago, MAJBobby said: So again you have proof Dorsey tell Josh hey in man coverage do whatever you want? Ignore the design of the route concepts The proof is in the film. He looks to Diggs first almost every single time it is obvious man coverage. Why wouldn't he? He's literally just picking out the most likely person to catch the ball. Edited October 17, 2023 by HappyDays 2
Warcodered Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I don't really see a play-caller change making that much of a difference mid-season. Is Joe Brady going to call that much better of a game given that the offense cannot be changed all that much mid-season? They can't overhaul the playbook and terminology mid-season. Joe Brady running the Daboll/Dorsey offense (many players said last season the offense hasn't changed that much from the offense Daboll built) isn't going to result in that much difference. I am not a Dorsey apologist but I think you have to be realistic about what you going to do offensively. The Bills aren't likely to bring in major talent pieces via trade and they aren't going to install a new offense. The best thing fans can do is hope Dorsey works out the kinks in October and November. If they actually do end giving someone else the play calling responsibilities they'll probably give Dorsey to the mini-bye to try and get right, that way the new caller has the extra time to get ready. Otherwise next would be the bye. Edited October 17, 2023 by Warcodered
DapperCam Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 I kind of think Dorsey stinks, but I also think switching to Joe Brady in the middle of the season will accomplish pretty much nothing. The entire offense needs overhauled, and that will require interviewing a bunch of candidates and an offseason to install. 1
FireChans Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Logic said: I thought Dorsey's playcalling left something to be desired both of the past two weeks. I, too, was frustrated by the pistol call at the 5-inch line. That said... The Bills are the 3rd ranked scoring offense in the NFL. They are behind only the Dolphins and 49ers, who most would acknowledge as the clear cut two best and most forward thinking offenses in the league. They are ahead of last year's Super Bowl participants, the Chiefs and Eagles. You don't fire an offensive coordinator who had the 2nd ranked scoring offense in his first year and has the 3rd ranked scoring offense in his second year. It's just asinine. It's reactionary "prisoner of the moment" stuff. It's not reasonable. Aside from the fact that the Bills, ya know, score a lot of points....Josh Allen endorsed Ken Dorsey, he likes Ken Dorsey, and and he wants Ken Dorsey as his OC. He's not going anywhere. You want to espouse and suggest specific changes to personnel usage, formations, or offensive strategy, then by all means, do so. I've got some suggestions myself, and there are areas where Dorsey can clearly improve. But firing him? That ain't it. Not happenin'. Ridiculous. If ranking matters that much, why is the phone not ringing off the hook for Kenny to become an HC? I mean, Daboll oversaw 1 top ranked year and was getting HC buzz. After his second year, he was the talk of the town. Why does no one want Kenny? Is it because folks around the league see him doing less with more when he has a top 3 QB and aren't impressed with whatever the dumb stats say? Edited October 17, 2023 by FireChans
Franco_92 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 SMH dorsey ruining Josh Allen all the way to the top of the league 1
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This is a reason why I don’t hate on Dorsey. Well two things. One, Diggs is the first read. Second, he isn't throwing over there with a defender in his face and a linemen on his right hip. Edited October 17, 2023 by Scott7975 1
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 13 hours ago, Success said: Shotgun on the half yard line. I repeat: shotgun on the half yard line. Worse. It was pistol formation putting the back behind the QB. Just lol.
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 13 hours ago, Peter said: Why NFL Coaches Use Shotgun at Goal Line For those of you who are incredulous that an NFL offensive coordinator might use shotgun at the goal line: TD rates PLAY SNAPS TD% Shotgun QB rush 62 71.0% Under center QB rush 215 68.4% Shotgun RB rush 328 56.7% Under center RB rush 1640 54.6% So stats pulled from an article I can't read but it was about the Chicago Bears with Justin Fields offense. Good model lol. Also stat show 17% of the time. Pretty low amount. I'm sure there is a reason for that. Probably because when you are at the half yardline its not a good idea to hand the ball off from pistol formation 6+ yards back. Especially when your QB is almost automatic in that situation. Dorsey was trying to get cute and it was a bad call. If they got a TD off that play I still would have said it was a bad call.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 11 hours ago, pocoboy said: What you hope is that Allen isn't feeding Diggs specifically to keep him happy. That isnt what is happening. 11 hours ago, pocoboy said: Diggs is gonna have to grow up at some point. Folks really need to stop with this toxic narrative. 1
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 12 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: So by your own words that catch is made once a week amongst 32 teams but Knox has to make it every time or it’s the ice floe? By contrast any criticism of the 17th rail is wrong before it starts? Clearly the Bills need Josh. He actually had a mostly good game yesterday but pinning that throw on Knox is just flat out irrational hero worship. It's not once a week. Receivers make hard catches all the time across every game. Receivers aren't just paid to catch balls thrown to their chest. They are paid to make difficult catches as well. Could the pass have been better? Of course, but these receivers are paid and expected to catch the ones not perfect. You don't watch enough football if you think that pass shouldn't have been caught. This pass was thrown low and way behind Kelce. IOW Kelce was running away from this pass towards the left sideline. Thats why you see that big patch of turf in the air from his slide to catch it. This is what good receivers do every game. They catch the not perfect pass. Just now, Scott7975 said: It's not once a week. Receivers make hard catches all the time across every game. Receivers aren't just paid to catch balls thrown to their chest. They are paid to make difficult catches as well. Could the pass have been better? Of course, but these receivers are paid and expected to catch the ones not perfect. You don't watch enough football if you think that pass shouldn't have been caught. This pass was thrown low and way behind Kelce. IOW Kelce was running away from this pass towards the left sideline. Thats why you see that big patch of turf in the air from his slide to catch it. This is what good receivers do every game. They catch the not perfect pass. Because of files size limits on this board I have to continue this in another post... This is from the Jets game as I dont have a screen shot from last night but all 3 plays are similar. This is what Knox does... He drops the damn football. 3 1
Doc Brown Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, DapperCam said: I kind of think Dorsey stinks, but I also think switching to Joe Brady in the middle of the season will accomplish pretty much nothing. The entire offense needs overhauled, and that will require interviewing a bunch of candidates and an offseason to install. We're objectively the third best offense in the league and the entire offense needs to be overhauled? Talk about recency bias.
DapperCam Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Doc Brown said: We're objectively the third best offense in the league and the entire offense needs to be overhauled? Talk about recency bias. I think that is 90% Diggs and Allen (along with an improved interior o-line). I think another offensive coordinator could have the offense performing even better (and more consistently).
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 12 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Like is Diggs always the first read and everything comes off that? Yes. Josh said that in a lot of their passing concepts that Diggs is the first read. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Yeah no trust me bro doesn’t work. back your claim that Allen is going off script. Where is the hold package Mr progressional. Ooo wait others also do this a long time professionally. Heck everyone makes educated guesses in every profession. That is much different than your claim. 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: So again you have proof Dorsey tell Josh hey in man coverage do whatever you want? Ignore the design of the route concepts Allen talked about the concepts they run and the looks they were getting made Diggs the first read, and he is usually open in those reads. It's not "off script", it's that the script is long and complicated and gives the players lots of different options every play. Not that crazy of a concept.
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