Giants @ Bills Postgame thread

[Augie]

 

I just watched the fourth quarter sober. THAT was kinda close!!!  I was more nervous than last night!

 

 

This is what they do to us……..    

[Scott7975]

14 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

50+ is a coin toss for any NFL kicker. 

 

Maybe 20 years ago.  60 yard fgs are the 50/50 of todays NFL.  Bass was 3 of 3 before the Giants game this year. 11 of 15 career before Giants.

 

This chart is 3 years old.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Scott7975

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

So... preparing to stop the run?

 

 

His handoffs are elite!

11 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Maybe 20 years ago.  60 yard fgs are the 50/50 of todays NFL.  Bass was 3 of 3 before the Giants game this year. 11 of 15 career before Giants.

 

This chart is 3 years old.

 

50 is the new 40

[Steptide]

Josh not being a threat to run has killed this offense. Imo it's the main reason the offense looks dull. I'm not saying he needs to run 80 yards a game, but they gotta stop keeping him in the pocket so much 

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Got to think he is trying to get the Pats to waste some time preparing for Kyle Allen when in reality he knows Josh is going to play. That's my optimistic take. 

8-D chess.

 

Actually… wait a second… 8-D Go.

[JohnNord]

19 hours ago, sven233 said:

This team is in shambles right now. We're broken in a lot of ways and it all starts with coaching not having an understanding as to what we do well and what we don't. Every time we go to shotgun, it's like the opponent knows what is coming.

 

Allen is about as perfect a QB as you can get when running play action from under center and our RBs average almost 3 yards a carry more from under center as well. Yet, Dorsey insists on running shotgun 70% of the time. And don't get me started about lining up in shotgun with literally 6" to get for a TD and having 3 chances to do it. Outside of a couple real nice play designs, Dorsey was a mess. We are not putting our players in a position to succeed. Wins matter, but it's hard to feel good about that one.

 

On a better note, though, the more you watch that Allen TD, the more insane a throw it becomes.  I don't think there is another QB in the league that completes that ball, including Mahomes.

Holy overreaction Batman

[<bills4life>]

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Holy overreaction Batman

While “shambles” might be too strong of a word. His assessment is not wrong. 

[WideNine]

42 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Josh not being a threat to run has killed this offense. Imo it's the main reason the offense looks dull. I'm not saying he needs to run 80 yards a game, but they gotta stop keeping him in the pocket so much 

 

Josh and this offense need to execute better on schedule and from the pocket.

This does not negate the need for Josh to scramble or get creative when things break down or defenders get a clean rush on him. I was never a fan of the designed runs for Allen where he got the snot beat out of him, or when he lowered his shoulder and took on LBs in the middle of the field when there were wide open guys he could dump the ball to.

What I don't like is when we are in short yardage situations with a few feet to go and they have Allen operating from a shotgun 5 yards deep. Sneak it, or even having him under center forces opposing teams to play the sneak because he is a big powerful QB. Also gives your RB a full head of steam taking a handoff if you go that route. I don't mind the naked boots with Allen operating from under center as long as they are not lining up too wide with their ends and we run enough that those ends avoid deeper rushes up field. That way Allen can at least put on a foot race to the sideline.

There are some times when Allen is scrambling where I think he could make the sticks and slide and he is trying too hard to make something happen downfield. My theory is this is new muscle memory for Allen to try to use all his weapons on offense and share the load with his playmakers. That is not a bad thing although it has looked ugly as we need more guys not named Diggs to step up.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by WideNine

[Best Williams Available]

44 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Josh not being a threat to run has killed this offense. Imo it's the main reason the offense looks dull. I'm not saying he needs to run 80 yards a game, but they gotta stop keeping him in the pocket so much 

Yes! Even if runs go for nil they’re like RB runs in that they keep the defense honest. Make Josh 1 dimensional and teams just know if you shut down Diggs the O will stall. That’s what Jax and Giants did, but it could’ve been easily countered but wasn’t.

44 minutes ago, Steptide said:

 

44 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Edited October 16, 2023 by Best Williams Available

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

BTW, was watching the “highlights” from last night (or lowlights!), and I have to say one wrinkle I loved was on 3rd and 2 late, they motioned Diggs into the backfield as the RB.
 

Then he released (against a safety or LB) for a quick 6-yard catch and an easy first down. Loved that concept! 

[May Day 10]

The more I think about it, the more I think daboll looked like he is out of his depth with being a hc.  The way he showed up tyrod was pretty crummy and players take notice. 

 

McDermott wouldn't have scolded him on national TV and would have buffered/absorbed blame for the end of the half.  "There was communication issues" or "they need to evaluate and improve in all aspects" Yada Yada.  Maybe even take blame himself.  Players take notice

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

While “shambles” might be too strong of a word. His assessment is not wrong. 

He’s a bit extreme in his assessment.  They are not a perfect team offensively and have some flaws which we’ve seen a lot the past few weeks.

 

But if you look how they stack up to the rest of the league, even with these stumbles, they are STILL among the top offensively.   They have a lot to work on, no doubt, but to call them “broken” is quite the overreaction 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

34 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think daboll looked like he is out of his depth with being a hc.  The way he showed up tyrod was pretty crummy and players take notice. 

 

McDermott wouldn't have scolded him on national TV and would have buffered/absorbed blame for the end of the half.  "There was communication issues" or "they need to evaluate and improve in all aspects" Yada Yada.  Maybe even take blame himself.  Players take notice

I agree. That stuff seems to fly more in college with your Kirby smart’s. But I don’t think pros really respond to the yelling and screaming stuff. 

[Mango]

26 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think daboll looked like he is out of his depth with being a hc.  The way he showed up tyrod was pretty crummy and players take notice. 

 

McDermott wouldn't have scolded him on national TV and would have buffered/absorbed blame for the end of the half.  "There was communication issues" or "they need to evaluate and improve in all aspects" Yada Yada.  Maybe even take blame himself.  Players take notice

Daboll stinks. This offense has very similar deficiencies under Dorsey as it did Daboll. We just aren’t truck linebackers so it has a less exciting vibe with nearly identical output.
 

I think Daboll is a really good football guy, great guy to have on staff. But can’t be fully in charge of a unit or a team (yet?). Every unit he’s managed outside of Josh has sucked. But I also think he’s a pretty smart dude. There is a lot that goes into being in charge of a whole team and/or unit other than being smart.

 

 

 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

Daboll stinks. This offense has very similar deficiencies under Dorsey as it did Daboll. We just aren’t truck linebackers so it has a less exciting vibe with nearly identical output.
 

I think Daboll is a really good football guy, great guy to have on staff. But can’t be fully in charge of a unit or a team (yet?). Every unit he’s managed outside of Josh has sucked. But I also think he’s a pretty smart dude. There is a lot that goes into being in charge of a whole team and/or unit other than being smart.

 

 

 

 

 

The EQ should nearly match the IQ.  Unless you’re Bill Belicheck I guess.

[JohnNord]

43 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think daboll looked like he is out of his depth with being a hc.  The way he showed up tyrod was pretty crummy and players take notice. 

 

McDermott wouldn't have scolded him on national TV and would have buffered/absorbed blame for the end of the half.  "There was communication issues" or "they need to evaluate and improve in all aspects" Yada Yada.  Maybe even take blame himself.  Players take notice

To be fair, that is Daboll’s thing.  He chewed out Josh on the sideline as a rookie and famously during the New England game in 2019.  
 

He also did the same thing to Daniel Jones earlier this season.  

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

Josh not being a threat to run has killed this offense. Imo it's the main reason the offense looks dull. I'm not saying he needs to run 80 yards a game, but they gotta stop keeping him in the pocket so much 

I think that is a super dangerous road to go down. 
 

If Josh not running has “killed this offense”, then that means Allen’s arm/decision making aren’t good enough, and running the ball is the solution. 
 

I love a good mobile QB, but long term success in this league is dictated by being a great passer first, and athlete second. At some point in every mobile QB’s career they either had to figure it out or they flamed out. If Allen is going to do this for a long time at a high level this is something he’ll have to hone in on. 
 

I have been critical on some of the decision making. But I don’t think Allen’s arm is killing the offense either. I don’t think he’ll flame out.
 

I think talking about how Allen “needs his legs” is way more condemning than talking about him being a better decision maker at times.  

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

Daboll stinks. This offense has very similar deficiencies under Dorsey as it did Daboll. We just aren’t truck linebackers so it has a less exciting vibe with nearly identical output.
 

I think Daboll is a really good football guy, great guy to have on staff. But can’t be fully in charge of a unit or a team (yet?). Every unit he’s managed outside of Josh has sucked. But I also think he’s a pretty smart dude. There is a lot that goes into being in charge of a whole team and/or unit other than being smart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree

[RiotAct]

46 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think daboll looked like he is out of his depth with being a hc.  The way he showed up tyrod was pretty crummy and players take notice. 

 

McDermott wouldn't have scolded him on national TV and would have buffered/absorbed blame for the end of the half.  "There was communication issues" or "they need to evaluate and improve in all aspects" Yada Yada.  Maybe even take blame himself.  Players take notice

yep.  Daboll needs to be able to keep it together better than that.  I remember him chewing Jones out on the sideline a few weeks ago, too.

 

Just seems like kind of a loose cannon overall.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

 

 

Disagree

That is a fair conversation.

 

But it also doesn’t convince me Daboll doesn’t stink as a leader even though he is a good football mind.